Curious - are people playing operations?

[markshot]

I played CMBO for about 2 years, but only played a single operation. Operations just didn't grab me. Also, I remember people saying that they were fundamentally flawed. (Of course, I no longer remember what was said.)

Anyway ... how are operations in CMBB? Are people playing them? Do they add a new aspect to the game beyond just playing missions?

Thanks.

[xerxes]

well yes, operations are great either as single player or if you have a dedicated (high turn rate) opponent.

[j0ker]

for some of us who have no time to keep up a PBEM, there's Biltong's Campaign Rules (BCR) ... good stuff. One gigantic Operation, starting in June 41. A bit of work involved to keep it coherent, but ultimately rewarding (IMO).

[phil stanbridge]

I am in the middle of one op at the mo. What I dislike is the way when you start a new battle in the op the enemy positions might only be a stones throw away. I always start a new battle with the majority of my forces way back on the map because of this, and have to push forward again.

[Hans]

The present design restrictions for Operations make it difficult to design a coherent one. They can be designed but it's difficult.

Hopefully in CM3 a more flexible and realistic method ology will be presented (we have faith in the Charles above)

[wings7]

I enjoy playing operations. It's neat to see what units survives the whole operation and how many causalities they inflict. I definitely would encourage anyone to play them.

[flamingknives]

I enjoy playing them.

I also enjoy writing them.

I've a few half-decent ones written for CM:BB that I really should try to upload to one of the scenario places, but I'm too lazy.

[Rob Murray]

Never tried one yet. Of course I've got a whole $%*!load of battles that I still haven't tried yet. I'm working up the courage ( so to speak ) to tackle the tougher ones.

[c3k]

Gents,

I've always particularly enjoyed the option of playing Operations. However, I concur with the assessment that they need to be greatly improved.

Case in point: I'm playing a static op in CMBB. I'll leave out specifics to preclude spoiling it. As the German, I have a set-up zone, which I use. Some of my units are at the extreme forward edge. On the VERY first turn, many of these units are ON barbed wire. Under close (much less than 100 meters) range fire from enemy troops. Not too smooth. At the very least, how did fortifications (barbed wire) appear in my set-up zone? The closeness of the enemy was a surprise. (A briefing could cover that.)

Additionally, in the next battle, a similar surprise occurred regarding the proximity to the enemy.

Suddenly, what I thought were rear positions were actually on the front-line. I will lose this operation and my opponent will not get the battle he deserves, mainly due to my lack of understanding on how set-up zones are calculated and positioned.

Ken

[MikeyD]

Operations are great fun but have two small drawbacks in my opinion.

First is the casual player deciding to get in that one game before bed is less likely to jump onto a 6 battle operation. Not the game's fault, just the nature of the average player.

Second, operations seem to penalize success! If you do TOO good a job at defending during the first battle you may be faced with an opponent so significantly degraded that the following wimpy battle aren't worth your time.

As to unexpected setup zones, I've got to admit that can be one of the fun bits. That gasp at the start of game 3 as you think "I have to defend THIS???!!!" chuckle chuckle.

[Dirtweasle]

I do not. The frontline re-draw between battle is still problematic for me. Sorry...

[Snorri]

i think operation are more fun the scenarios, sure they last longer, but good chess games, too (..i was told.)

beside there`s a "with german-language" operation available at respond.. digutschH@aol.com

playable 9000 points, and a "beautiful" 18qkm-map (honorable ViP`s comment)

[SgtMuhammed]

Personally I love operations both from a playing and a designing standpoint. As others have stated though, they do have their faults.

You can't set VLs on a sliding map for one, which really affects the behavior of the AI.

There also needs to be more precise control over reinforcements. Having map linked reinforcements linked to the front line rather than the map sliding would help or being able to put units on the map regardless of whether that part of the map is exposed would be a great help.

Hopefully the next rewrite will give scenario designers more control over the process. Like allowing them to set the AI's general behavior (defend in place, fighting retreat, etc.).

[ParaBellum]

@Dirtweasle:

Oww, that reminds me of a funny little battle we had while still playing CMBO... VERY creative frontline re-drawing led to some interesting tactical situations...

[ May 08, 2003, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: ParaBellum ]

[Juju]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

Second, operations seem to penalize success! If you do TOO good a job at defending during the first battle you may be faced with an opponent so significantly degraded that the following wimpy battle aren't worth your time.

Something along the same lines: If you do too good a job at defending you may be faced with an opponent who has received a s**tload of reinforcements, while YOU didn't get any, because your lack of losses in the prior battle did not trigger a reinforcement. Doesn't happen often, but if you play a lot of ops you tend to run into this problem now and then. Seemed worse in CMBO than it is in CMBB, though.

[Pvt. Ryan]

I prefer operations because I like to see the high body counts at the end.

[Ex Bellator]

Nah - I can never get at the funny bone without making the nose flash.

[Brent Pollock]

Although I've experienced the same problems with operations (weird set up events; oodles of reinforcements for the attacker when they get pulverized) one reason I do like operations is for this bit of strategic realism:

killing crews after they abandon their vehicle or gun so they can't reman it the next day.

In battles, they are pretty much a waste of ammo once their weapon or vehicle is knocked out.

Similarly, trying to control the ground around abandoned weapons also is important so they cannot be recrewed the next day.

[V]

I am playing the Boots N Tracks Operation "The Begining of the End" in a PBEM.

I like Operation if they are well designed.

Use the depot and its excellent review feature.

[Hans]

One change to operations that would hope to see in CM3 is the ability to setup a map. Then start in the middle with both sides moving it back and forth.

[flamingknives]

Gents,

I've always particularly enjoyed the option of playing Operations. However, I concur with the assessment that they need to be greatly improved.

Case in point: I'm playing a static op in CMBB. I'll leave out specifics to preclude spoiling it. As the German, I have a set-up zone, which I use. Some of my units are at the extreme forward edge. On the VERY first turn, many of these units are ON barbed wire. Under close (much less than 100 meters) range fire from enemy troops. Not too smooth. At the very least, how did fortifications (barbed wire) appear in my set-up zone? The closeness of the enemy was a surprise. (A briefing could cover that.)

Additionally, in the next battle, a similar surprise occurred regarding the proximity to the enemy.

Suddenly, what I thought were rear positions were actually on the front-line. I will lose this operation and my opponent will not get the battle he deserves, mainly due to my lack of understanding on how set-up zones are calculated and positioned.

Ken

Was the barbed wire incident in a battle in the middle of an op? If so, it's worthwhile noting that fortifications are not spotted in the setup phase, so if you had not seen them in the previous battle, you wouldn't know they are there until the next battle starts and your troops start spotting again.

The closeness of the enemy depends on the 'no-mans land' setting, which can be anything from 0m to 500m.

I think salients and pockets may encroach upon this, but I'm not sure

[Prinz Eugen]

Originally posted by V:

I like Operation if they are well designed.

Hear hear !

Couldn't agree more. Playing a good operation is a lot more rewarding than single battles. The trouble is, good operations that are worth the time are hard to find. I just hate to fight a non-balanced operation where you'll kick the AI's behind blindfolded and with only the left hand to use. Immensely boring !