Panzer Ace Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Has any one figured out a german tank in CMBB that is cheap and good like the Mighty Hetzer in CMBO? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-E Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Have you considered trying... the CMBB Hetzer? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcgivney Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Originally posted by -E: Have you considered trying... the CMBB Hetzer? Seconded. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Originally posted by mcgivney: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by -E: Have you considered trying... the CMBB Hetzer? Seconded. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 The Hetzer has curved rather than sloped armour in CMBB, which seriously reduces its survivability. I'd vote for the Stug IIIG in 1943. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John D Salt Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 Originally posted by flamingknives: The Hetzer has curved rather than sloped armour in CMBB, which seriously reduces its survivability. I'd vote for the Stug IIIG in 1943. Coo. So it is. The same applies to the JagdPz IV and Pz IV/70. I cannot see the reasoning behind this -- the main frontal plates are well-sloped, and the area represented by the Saukopfblende is extremely small. I don't have any details of the protection level provided by the Saukopfblende, but the excellent ballistic shape suggests to me that it shopuld be much higher than the level represented by "curved". Pending some really surprising new information about these Jagdpanzers, I would go so far as to say that this is a mistake. BFC please fix it or do somefink. All the best, John. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer Ace Posted February 12, 2003 Author Share Posted February 12, 2003 Glad to see that some of you out there are awake, I noticed the curved changes, and did a few test battles with only 4-5 hetzers then JGPZ/70s and did not really get good results, guess they rounded them to use as snow plows? I was just wondering why BFC changed them 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becket Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 For my money, StuGs are the best bang for the buck in the German arsenal. Sometimes I'll buy PIIIs or PIVs for variety, and I always end up regretting it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 For me, it depends on terrain and ground conditions. I've lost count now of the number of StuGs I've lost in open terrain in wet or damp conditions. I would probably pick a Panther over a platoon of StuGs if the going was bad. It might only be one tank, but at least I could be sure I might get some use out of it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 I believe v1.02 is kinder to vehicles on damp ground. Theoretically less bogging. The Hetzer's 'curved' armor in CMBB takes into account its funky cast gun mantlet. You'll note the Stug is also listed as 'curved' for the same reason. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Kruger Posted February 12, 2003 Share Posted February 12, 2003 The Hetzer in CMBO was definitely one of my favorite AFVs. I don't know if it is more realistic to have the entire upper hull as 'curved' or not, but if this is an error I certainly hope it gets corrected. J Kruger 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Pity we can't get some sort of response from the BFC guys to explain why they changed the Jagd Panzers armour to "curved". Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Somebody mentioned that the StuG is curved for the same reason. That isn't right. The StuG obviously has lots of different places to hit with different angles, so the attribute sounds right here, compared to Hetzer and Jagdpanzer. The Jagdpanther is also curved now, BTW. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastables Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Or you could just test in game and see that a Jadgpanzer IV with 8cm curved armour is better off than a StuG G late 8cm curved armour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Hey, I liked the Hetzer in CMBO (cheap, first-shot, and low silhouette), but it was kinda different in CMBB. I did a test from the above comments of the StuG III: Quick Battle Meeting Engagements Allied Armor vs Axis Unrestricted. Mid-day, Map used was imported from TshaplinkaME.cme With 1000 points, I bought 7xStuGIII vet, and 2 light armored cars Regular. I found out later that the AI bought 9xT-34 M43 and 1xISU-152. Well, the results speak for itself, result: one german armored car lost from the scouting expedition, 10 russian afvs destroyed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Originally posted by laxx: Well, the results speak for itself, result: one german armored car lost from the scouting expedition, 10 russian afvs destroyed. What did u expect? Ofcos the StuGs will slaughter the T34's, since they approch head on, and the only way the T34 can penetrate the front is with Tugsten ammo. Tests like these arent worth much, as the T34's strenght is speed and mobility, and use this to flank AFVs like StuGs. You could just as well substituted the StuGs with King Tigers for that matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 BTW, what sort of grass mod are you using? Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laxx Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Panzer76: Ouch! Since you are the StuG grog, can I ask why does the StuG III (early) cost more than the Stug III (middle) or early middle, about 158 vs 130 points ? Especially when it lacks a MG ? This is a 1943 engagement. Kanonier: I am using the grided grass mod, found here: http://www.cmmods.com/web%5CCMMods.nsf/d329c6a48ec6a36f85256c5f005fd0d9/2d0c6b067d73651d85256c7a006c4021!OpenDocument [ February 13, 2003, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: laxx ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Ummmm, thanks laxx. Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarquelne Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Is "Curved" handled differently for different AFVs in CMBB? A 60 degree slope on a T-34 is obviously going to be the same 60 degrees on a Hetzer (or some vehicle with a 60 d. slope)... but is the Curved on the front of a T-34 the same as the Curved on the front of a Stug? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Originally posted by Tarqulene: Is "Curved" handled differently for different AFVs in CMBB? A 60 degree slope on a T-34 is obviously going to be the same 60 degrees on a Hetzer (or some vehicle with a 60 d. slope)... but is the Curved on the front of a T-34 the same as the Curved on the front of a Stug? That needs to be tested. As another poster said, StuG IIIG mid late or late against a Jagdpanzer IV could do as they both have 80mm curved. However there are other differences as well, the Jagdpanzer is a superstructure vehicle in CM (three values for front) as opposed to a hull-only vehicles that the StuG is (two values for front). A tester would have to manually count only hits on the actually curved. Of course, BFC might know this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Some StuGs have 80 at 10 degree slope as opposed to a curved upper hull face. This might explain the difference in points 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzer76 Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 Originally posted by laxx: Panzer76: Since you are the StuG grog, can I ask why does the StuG III (early) cost more than the Stug III (middle) or early middle, about 158 vs 130 points ? Especially when it lacks a MG ? This is a 1943 engagement. I can see you'r using the rarity system, good for you. When you do, keep in mind that the "best" AFV isnt neccesserily the most expensive. Older models can be more expensive cos they are outdated models, and thus werent that common in that particular timeframe. Without the rarity on, the differences in price for the StuGs are around 1-2 pts. [ February 13, 2003, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Panzer76 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manchildstein (ii) Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 how did the jagdpanther get classified as curved? does this make it weaker in cmbb than it was in cmbo? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted February 13, 2003 Share Posted February 13, 2003 how did the jagdpanther get classified as curved? Dunno. does this make it weaker in cmbb than it was in cmbo? Yes, if I understand the model correctly, as it means that a shell can strike a section of armour at 0degree slope 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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