Tanks bogging.... Cranial pressure... RISING! (How to prevent it?)

[Bone_Vulture]

I was wondering: are there some less obvious factors that affect the probability of a tank bogging? Meaning other than ground pressure, crossed terrain and weather?

It is starting to bother me, as my assault/attack missions are foiled over and over again when my panzers (today it was a PzIVH) always get stuck in the mud. Or not mud, simply in plain grass with a "move" order and damp weather conditions.

[Redmow]

Nothing that I know of. I do know what you mean though. Playing the Prokhorovka scenario and one of my Tigers bogged on the way to the front. Luckily I could reverse to get the tank out of that ground and continue on. I don't know if their experience has anything to do with their ability to un-bog. That was the third tank to bog by the way. The other two are lost dangit.

[Robert Isenberg]

Here are some tactics to help

1.use roads or railroad tracks when ever possilble

2.check the ground your tank is going over with the move order

3.avoid soft and sparse trees

4. don't let the AI dictate your vehicle's movement(ie waypoints)do this your self

5. check the groung pressure of your vehicles(click on the vehcle then press ENTER)

you want a ground pressure under 11.5 psi if you are going to do a lot of off road driving

hope it helps

[V]

Originally posted by Bone_Vulture:

I was wondering: are there some less obvious factors that affect the probability of a tank bogging? Meaning other than ground pressure, crossed terrain and weather?

It is starting to bother me, as my assault/attack missions are foiled over and over again when my panzers (today it was a PzIVH) always get stuck in the mud. Or not mud, simply in plain grass with a "move" order and damp weather conditions.

speed is a factor and the weight of the tank.

I tend to use "hunt" when I go through suspect terrain which I think I might bog in.

Although sometimes, it's just not possible and you have to risk driving through soft ground at high speed.

[cbb]

I'm of the opinion that CMBB has bogging frequency just about right. It's certainly frustrating when your Tiger bogs down at the worst possible moment but that's simply the way it was during WW2. Tracked vehicles were notorious for getting stuck...

In "The Combat History of Sturmgeschutz Brigade 276", the author states that he even avoided crossing railway embankments for fear of getting stuck!

[Ex Bellator]

There are test and other threads about bogging (and no I can't be @rsed to 'do a search'). Speed is definitely a factor, the slower the better. My Stugs tend to 'Move' virtually everywhere and the only time I've seen one bog since 1.02 was when I gave it a 'Fast' order on a road covered in snow.

FWIW one other (probably obvious) anti-bogging tip if you're playing QBs and don't know what weather you will be facing, check the Artillery purchase screen and see if aircraft are around. If there are no aircraft available then there is a good chance of bad weather, so stay away from Stugs, PzIIIs, and Heavies.

Losing a PZIV on damp open ground IMO is just very bad luck, I haven't seen that happen yet, but it probably will now I've said that. I agree with the above poster, bogging chance seems about right to me.

[ February 23, 2003, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: Rex_Bellator ]

[tar]

There are test and other threads about bogging (and no I can't be @rsed to 'do a search'). Speed is definitely a factor, the slower the better. My Stugs tend to 'Move' virtually everywhere and the only time I've seen one bog since 1.02 was when I gave it a 'Fast' order on a road covered in snow.

My recollection of the latest bog tests (I won't do a search either ) is that moving quickly was better. IIRC the test results were that time was a bigger factor in the bogging chances than distance traveled. The effect was that, although on a per-minute basis, you would be more likely to bog with "Fast" rather than "Move", you would still get farther with "Fast" before bogging. In other words, the extra distance traveled due to the higher speed outweighed the increase in chance of bogging per time unit.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Originally posted by Robert Isenberg:

Here are some tactics to help

1.use roads or railroad tracks when ever possilble

I'll think you'll find that moving along railway tracks is a very bad idea as the chances to bog increase dramatically. Railroad tracks are definitely best avoided.

Regards

Jim R.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Robert Isenberg:

Here are some tactics to help

1.use roads or railroad tracks when ever possilble

I'll think you'll find that moving along railway tracks is a very bad idea as the chances to bog increase dramatically. Railroad tracks are definitely best avoided.

Regards

Jim R. </font>

[BulletRat]

Things to try when bogged.

Remove passengers (if any).

Remove all orders, order tank to reverse.

Pray that it doesn't go "immobile".

Oh and avoid scattered trees if at all possible - those buggers have hands that will grab your tank and not let go! :mad:

[Lou2000]

I dont know about 1.02 but I dont think that doing a 'Reverse' actually makes any difference.

In a recent PBEM I lost 5 vehicles due to bogging before I'd even seen the enemy ... frustrating but not unrealistic all were moving at either 'move' or 'hunt'

To start with I was issuing a reverse order but then I just stopped and cleared all movement orders ... the vehicles just go on with it and un-bogged themselves.

As for terain types for bogging ... I avoided soft ground totally but got immobile vehicles in rocky, scattered trees and open ground. It was only when I got to the other side of the map and the higher ground that the bogging stopped. So maybe the height of the terain plays some part ??? I dunno .....

Whatever the reasons and no matter how frustrating it can be, I'm glad its a factor and think its about at the correct level.

GOOD tip about checking the artillery purchase screen though :cool:

Lou2000

[athkatla]

I remember seeing a post sometime back from BFC about this, and they said that there is nothing the player can do to unbog a vehicle, if it is going to unbog, then it will do it itself. I assume that most vehicles that bog were obviously on some kind of move order, so the TC will try to unbog his tank as best he can. I saw it happen in one of my games, I had a tank bogged for about 6 turns, suddenly it turned up where it should have been earlier, so the quick answer is leave them alone and let the TC work it out himself.

[ February 24, 2003, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: athkatla ]

[Bone_Vulture]

I've noticed that random bogging can happen in absurd conditions: when my friend was attacking with the Soviets, one of his KV-1's (with a 0.8 kg ground pressure) got bogged & immobilized on plain grass, under very dry weather conditions! :eek:

[Guest Sgt. Emren]

Is bogging abstracted? I.e., can we include drivetrains that break down all of a sudden?

[Thin Red Line]

Originally posted by Sgt. Emren:

Is bogging abstracted? I.e., can we include drivetrains that break down all of a sudden?

Definitely.

[Krazy Canuck]

Originally posted by Bone_Vulture:

I was wondering: are there some less obvious factors that affect the probability of a tank bogging? Meaning other than ground pressure, crossed terrain and weather?

I think it was redwolf that ran some tests and provided some excellant information....sorry can't remember exactly. Btw. I just play with crossed fingers.

KC

[MikeyD]

I've noticed a difference between highground/lowground. It seems you're more likely to bog in the depressions between hills (logically enough). If I find myself in damp conditions I try to steer my tanks as high up a hill that I can without actually cresting it and attracting unwanted attention.

[Bone_Vulture]

Good point, MikeyD. Now that I thought of it, the tanks have usually been in low ground when bogged. I'll try using elevated trails.

[JP Jones]

I think crew experience plays a significant role in bogging and immobilizing. A green crew is way more likely to bog than a veteran crew.

Anybody else heard that before??

[Krazy Canuck]

Originally posted by JP Jones:

I think crew experience plays a significant role in bogging and immobilizing. A green crew is way more likely to bog than a veteran crew.

Anybody else heard that before??

Your right.

KC

[Redwolf]

Not sure whether veteran crews are better in not bogging, but in any case they have a smaller chance of immobilizing once bogged.

[Sardaukar]

What I'd like to see is a possibility to push immobilized vehicle clear by another.

At least Otto Carius in his "Tigers in mud" says it was very common to push Tiger with another when one was bogged or had flat battery. Especially it was common to start Tigers with flat battery by pushing it with another Tiger.

And since vehicles can push KO'd ones out of way in present engine, that shouldn't be too hard to implement (or maybe it is, donno)

It might cause a need to differentiate between immobilized by bogging from mechanical breakdowns/thrown track instances. IIRC, both are now treated with same bogging/immobilizing now.

Cheers,

M.S.

[Bone_Vulture]

I don't think "tank pushing" should be inmplemented, other than allowing infantry to help a bogged tank. This would be an abstraction of digging the dirt in front of the tank, placing planks under the treads etc. etc...

Or maybe you could tow the tank free, with a heavy gun tractor maybe.