What are The Sneakiest Maneuvers a Human Opponent Inflicted On You?

[DaAdjuster]

Gents, I’m a newbie at posting, but not at playing CM. I keep reading in the various posts about the sneaky, and most unexpected strategies a shrewd human opponent can bring to bear on his adversaries. The saying invariably goes “well this won’t work against a human”, “well a human won’t fall for this or that”, “a human won’t open up from that range”.

So all this monstrosity of a savvy human opponent is horrifying, especially since I’ve never played anyone but the AI. I keep thinking I’ll rotate my spotter to the rear and find umpteen heavy armored guns up my ass as early as the 6th turn. Or upon thinking, wow how wonderful my advance is progressing, my entire battalion is wiped out via a combo of shelling and close rage, precision fire. I’m used to the AI’s ATG opening up at 900 meters if I show him a measly, damaged Sherman, I don’t wanna even contemplate how and when a human will employ his ATG assets, it’s too scary.

What’s your point say you? I hear ya. Well, it’ll be nice to hear specifics about these defensive, offensive and sneaky human maneuvers one hears so much about. In other words, were you obliterated by artillery? Did you vacate the city you’re suppose to defend and opted for a counter sneaky defense? How were you able to retake it given the limited time issues? When did your opponent’s ATG main defenses open up on your armor, at what range? Do you advance probative armor to lure in force, 2 by 2s, or one by one? How do you get him to show himself and fire on you? What do you do when your Soviet armor refuses to engage and backs away even in packs?

So a few stories about the sneakiest, most unexpected moves you endured would sure be nice to hear. Maybe you can demystify this unstoppable, devious human whom most AI players dread and refuse to engage.

[Kingfish]

The "sneak off the map edge and come back in behind the enemy" trick really drives me nuts!

[Macphail]

quiting a game in abject terror, at the first sight of my mighty army. the terror is ok, the quiting is weenie, and sucks.

[David Chapuis]

I have never played against a 'sneaky' human. But humans are just much smarter than the AI - which makes the game come to life even more. Since my first game against a human, I have never played against the AI again. It just is no fun.

[Bonxa]

Well, I expect the enemy to sit in every little bush or scrub on the map. That way you won't get surprised most of the time. It has happened that I've misjudged where the setup zones might reasonably have been or some such which result in mild surprises sometimes. I blame those failures more on myself than on my opponent though.

What you should concentrate on is to pull off sneaky moves yourself. It's rarely doable though since LOS is so good on most maps. But I have managed to pull some nice tricks once in a while (like one in twenty PBEMs), mainly in scenarios with low force densities.

Those rare occasions are the best CM memories I have though. Well worth all the mediocre PBEMs in between.

[securityguard]

currently playing a game where my opponent road blocked one area, so i took the road beside it. mine took my half-track out. so I take my other half-track around the mine, and another mind destroys that half-track. so i take my TANK around THAT mine, who wouldve guessed? another mine.

I really don't think he thought i'd fall for it three times in a row but apparently im that dumb. i say its crafty gambling in my opinion.

[Carl Puppchen]

The first time my opponent used what we call "rubblin' ". I setup like I usually do against the AI, in heavy buildings, and waited for the enemy to come. He just stood off from range and pre-emptively leveled all the large buildings with high caliber direct fire HE and smashed my best guys to pieces or sent them scrambling to lousy positions. Now it is tough because if you give up all those positions UP FRONT then your opponent has an advantage - also he knows I give them up (most of the time) so now he targets the LESS "good" positions where I put my people instead of the good positions and now they suffer casualties and can't return fire.

Also the first time my opponent used the 'wall of guns' trick where you buy 15 20mm AA guns and ping the tanks to death by hitting them on the gun, tread, etc...

The tactic of setting up mines adjacent to road blocks is a very good one. Also TRP's are awesome - you can target likely positions and call down a nasty barrage on the enemy.

A semi-crazy plan is to figure out how far from the back end you can setup in a meeting engagement since typically you put your guys as far up as possible from the map edge (in a QB) to "race" for the objective. The computer sets the same distance for both opponents. Then lay down a turn 1 barrage right on the road at that point which sends everyone reeling and off trucks, tanks, etc... while your guys merrily run to the objective.

A less crazy plan is to let the opponent take the objective in a QB but then pummel it with very high caliber HE - like above 150mm - this can cause HUGE casualties if they land on target - especially if the target is woods and you have a good LOS for your spotter.

Usually turn 1 in a QB sometimes no one moves at all since you are at an advantage to wait for the enemy to move and shoot first, then move late in the game towards the objective after having beaten up the enemy.

Good luck!

[imported_no_one]

A semi-crazy plan is to figure out how far from the back end you can setup in a meeting engagement since typically you put your guys as far up as possible from the map edge (in a QB) to "race" for the objective. The computer sets the same distance for both opponents. Then lay down a turn 1 barrage right on the road at that point which sends everyone reeling and off trucks, tanks, etc... while your guys merrily run to the objective.

You can not have turn one barrages in ME's.

[Carl Puppchen]

If you have a spotter with your forces in an ME can't you do a firing plan and put down zero extra turns?

[Major Rags]

I don't think you have the ability to set a barrage up on Turn 1 unless you are the attacker in an attack or assault. It'sa not realistic to know that the enemy is in a 200 meter-wide strip ahead of you in an engagement that is not attacking a fixed position. In real life you would waste a lot of ammo and give away the element of surprise by letting him know you're in the neighborhood.

[Carl Puppchen]

I am wrong... can't set up a barrage in a meeting engagement. Just tested it out. Must have been an assault when my opponent caught me.

[eyepilot]

I too am scared spitless of playing against another human. I have been playing awhile against AI and I still suck big. Listening to youse guys I am sure I would suck even bigger.

I would have to change my account name every time! Having so many scenarios I am content in the obscure ranks of "Also Played".

for now

[DeaconBlue]

Ha Ha Ha that's pretty good !!! I'm with you, buddy ! At least your honest enough !!

[Probert]

The only reason I don't play against human opponents is that my dial up internet connection makes it way too slow to do anything like that.

[Akula2]

sneaky, no. Best ...:

A wide keyhole.

A narrow keyhole.

A shoot and scoot.

an AT team ambush that my infantry screen passed by.

Cooperative AFV tactics that make my main aranment go right ... miss ... then left ... too late ... BANG!!! *Side penetration(right side) - Knocked Out!!

When these things happen simultaneously like some Bin Laden plot.

[Akula2]

bazookas and panzershreks that shoot, displace and shoot from another angle.

bunkers on a reverse slope.

...

GaMeY.

a bazillion 20mm guns knocking out a KT.

[wamphyri]

Well on my very first pbem game I was the one who did the sneaky moves. We were playing cmbo and the map was a scenario with pre-determined units and setup. It was a bocage map, and there was alot of it! I was the defending allies with nothing but infantry and he had infantry and 3 stug's!

Make a long story short I used alot of flanking moves since he seemed to be concentrated around the middle, I'd hit units on the sides and fade back into the bocage. Managed to kill 2 of the tanks with my zooks and almost the third. Had I sent in all my units just a few turns earlier than I did to crush him it would have been a victory for me instead of a draw.

great game! Haven't had any as fun as that one since.

Wamphyri

[Dook]

A few of the basic but big differences between playing v. humans and playing v. the computer:

1)Command of units - A decent human player will almost always have his units in command and will have them cooperate to achieve some effect. For example, humans will have pairs or even platoons of tanks work together to hunt enemy armor and infantry. The computer rarely uses its units effectively - infantry squads are often out of command and tanks operate singly.

2) Combined effects of units - A good human player will combine the actions of his units to achieve some greater effect. For example, two tanks may shoot and scoot on the left side of the map to draw the fire of an enemy heavy tank; then, two tanks crest a hill on the right side to take shots at the heavy tank while its side armor is exposed and its turret is facing the wrong way. Other example might be feinting with infantry to the right while the main attack sneaks around to the left or holding back in a meeting engagment and then walloping the objective with heavy artillery. The computer is incapable of timing or integrating the movements of its units at that level of detail.

3) Route of advance/lccation of defense - The route of advance that the computer will follow and the location of the defenses are pretty easy to predict once you've played for a while. Humans will often follow a less obvious route or place defensive forces in unexpected locations. A related point is that the computer does not take advantage of its potential ability to predict defensive locations. Thus, it won't use HE to knock down the one tall building overlooking the battlefield to prevent you from placing a FO there; a human player will.

4) Use of artillery - The computer cannot match a skilled player in its use of artillery. It tends to dump an entire FO's load on a single target, and only after something has been spotted there. It cannot create a fire plan for timed fires and also tends to use smoke inappropriately. Depending on the forces and the terrain, a skilled human player can wreak havoc with artillery and little else.

I'm sure others will add comments, but those are the four broad categories I see where a human player outmatches the computer.

Talking smack to a computer gets pretty boring after a while too.

[Zveroboy]

Empty trenches or foxholes ... :mad: :mad: :mad:

They always make me spend lots of ammo and delay my attack for nothing.

[Europa]

I don't know... My men just died, didn't see what killed them...

[Spears]

Originally posted by Europa:

I don't know... My men just died, didn't see what killed them...

(changes magazine) yeah i know.

[Treeburst155]

The very sneakiest things involve game mechanics, having a thorough understanding of how the program works. Your opponents will often think you are lucky, or that they are unlucky.

Mike

[Cthulhu Dreams]

A german player buying entirely t-34's in a early 41 quick battle :\

[Redwolf]

Originally posted by Zveroboy:

Empty trenches or foxholes ... :mad: :mad: :mad:

They always make me spend lots of ammo and delay my attack for nothing.

I recently badly lost a defense. But the one thing that worked, and added greatly to my e-joyment, was my forward trench line.

Not only was the trench line empty and convincingly placed so that my opponent wasted a lot of time and ammo on it. I had a few anti-personnel minefields in it. After shooting it up he moved in to use them as cover. His men went head down and were still in place having done nothing when the battle was over

[ December 27, 2004, 04:22 PM: Message edited by: Redwolf ]

[Akula2]

Originally posted by Redwolf:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Zveroboy:

Empty trenches or foxholes ... :mad: :mad: :mad:

They always make me spend lots of ammo and delay my attack for nothing.

I recently badly lost a defense. But the one thing that worked, and added greatly to my ejoyment, was my forward trench line.

Not only was the trench line empty and convincingly placed so that my opponent wasted a lot of time and ammo on. I had a few anti-personnel minefields in it. After shooting it up he moved in to use them as cover. His men went head down and were still in place having done nothing when the battle was over </font>