Scipio Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 Just wonder, will BTS use (at least optional) vertex fog for CMAK, or still support only fog table emulation as in CMBB? I love to see fog, and I must confess that I'm very diappointed that I can't see it with my Radeon. If the answer is 'No', then I'm really surprised about this. AFAIK, the Radeon cards lead the market already - at least in the lower price segment that is the greatest market segment in graphic cards. Shall the majority of players really wait for CMX2 that can not be expected before 2005? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 From an earlier post describing how complicated it would be to change how fog is coded, I don't think that it will change in CMAK. On the plus side, I don't think that there was a lot of fog in the desert. :cool: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becket Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 If they lead the market, why can't they fix their damn drivers to support the game. Of course, this applies to nVidia as well, with the "text disappears using AA" problem. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 Andrew, Most fo the Battle at Kasserine took place in rain and fog. The gine has not changed, and it would require too much to change for CMAK. You will have to wait for CMX2. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 26, 2003 Share Posted August 26, 2003 Originally posted by Andrew Hedges: On the plus side, I don't think that there was a lot of fog in the desert. :cool: Not a lot, but some. I've read several accounts that mention it. And although I don't know anything specific, I'd be surprised if there wasn't fog in the Pennines, at least in winter. Also, aren't dust and smoke handled by the same mechanisms as fog? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rexford Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by Andrew Hedges: From an earlier post describing how complicated it would be to change how fog is coded, I don't think that it will change in CMAK. On the plus side, I don't think that there was a lot of fog in the desert. :cool: I've also read about early morning fog in the desert. Fog is generally created when the temperature drops to the dew point of the air, and the morning temp in the desert can be really low. There are alot of small creatures in a desert that live on early morning dew. The lowest daily temperature occurs just after sun rise, when the earth is losing heat faster than the oblique sun rays can add heat. Advanced Squad Leader has something on desert fog if my memory cells are still functioning. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterX Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 If they lead the market, why can't they fix their damn drivers to support the game. Ever notice, on any game forum, the largest number of threads in the Technical Support folder deal with Radeon issues? I've heard some have actual, dedicated forums just to addres Radeon related problems. I'll stick with my GeForce 4. :cool: [ August 26, 2003, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: PeterX ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cabron66 Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Just out of curiosity Peter X. How does the Ge Force 4 handle CMBB? That's a 256, 32 MB card, no? I ask because I've got a GeForce 440 Go card which I am told (by Nvidia) is basically the same and I although I'm fine on most maps, the big ones with lots of trees force me to go down to 800x600 res and set trees and groud detail to moderate or less. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becket Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by Cabron66: Just out of curiosity Peter X. How does the Ge Force 4 handle CMBB? That's a 256, 32 MB card, no? I ask because I've got a GeForce 440 Go card which I am told (by Nvidia) is basically the same and I although I'm fine on most maps, the big ones with lots of trees force me to go down to 800x600 res and set trees and groud detail to moderate or less. I run CMBB in 1024, high res, 4x AA, and it's smooth as a dream. GeForce 3, 512 Ram, 2GHz P4. Still won't run "To the Volga", though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterX Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Just out of curiosity Peter X. How does the Ge Force 4 handle CMBB? Great! It's overkill for CMBB. On the other hand, it's marginal for the other sim I occasionally play: Nascar 2003. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew H. Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by rune: Andrew, Most fo the Battle at Kasserine took place in rain and fog. Fog grog! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Hmm. Just thought of somefink. Will heat "shimmer" be modeled in CMAK? Just as disruptive to accurate fire as fog, I would think (and a lot more common in the desert, too) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by IntelWeenie: Hmm. Just thought of somefink. Will heat "shimmer" be modeled in CMAK? Just as disruptive to accurate fire as fog, I would think (and a lot more common in the desert, too) It would be at its worst around mid-day. My impression is that its greatest effects would be on long distance spotting. Only weapons having an effective range of 1000m or more—and aside from field and heavy artillery firing over open sights that would not be many weapons—would be seriously effected. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wisbech_lad Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 I'd be surprised if there wasn't fog in the Pennines, at least in winter CMAK has an ahistorical Sealion, with desperate fighting on the Yorkshire/Lancashire border? A pennines Me, Mountain Range Grog 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Private Bluebottle Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Of much greater importance than fog for CMAK will be heat haze. How will the effects of that be handled? Usually for the mid-hours of the day, visibility is markedly reduced in hot/arid regions. Often down to less than 500 metres, usually from about 1000hrs to about 1600hrs, particularly during summer months. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by Wisbech_lad: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> I'd be surprised if there wasn't fog in the Pennines, at least in winter CMAK has an ahistorical Sealion, with desperate fighting on the Yorkshire/Lancashire border? A pennines Me, Mountain Range Grog </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Emrys: Damn Europeans...always naming things the same or similar all over the map...a feller can't figger out where he is hardly... Michael Believe me, you'll notice the difference when you are there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by Becket: If they lead the market, why can't they fix their damn drivers to support the game. Because they don't need to. I contacted the ATI support, and they told me that FOG table emulation is not included anymore, because fog tables are already supported by DirectX.. Allow me to point you to the articel at the Microsoft Developers Network So what??? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joachim Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by Scipio: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Becket: If they lead the market, why can't they fix their damn drivers to support the game. Because they don't need to. I contacted the ATI support, and they told me that FOG table emulation is not included anymore, because fog tables are already supported by DirectX.. Allow me to point you to the articel at the Microsoft Developers Network So what??? </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Andrew, Good thing you don't have your email listed, as I would have sent you a Kasserine Pass Scneario for CMAK to you just to taunt you. hehehehehe Rune Originally posted by Andrew Hedges: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rune: Andrew, Most fo the Battle at Kasserine took place in rain and fog. Fog grog! </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by Scarhead: I like the "preliminary" before the documentary. Seems this is a rather new feature. Why correct any problem that will vanish over time anyway and where you can put the blame/work on somebody else. Can we create some blacklist for hard- and software not recommended for CM? Just in case I buy a new Computer, I'd like to now what not to buy. I'd opt for a list counting the threads on a given hardware in the tech forum. Gruß Joachim Well, new DirectX9 feature...we are talking about CMAK, not about the pre DX9 release CMBB. The fog problem applies AFAIK only to Radeon9xxx cards which support DX9. So the option to use the DX9 pixel fog would make sense, right? Your other question can simply be answered, don't buy a new computer. The CM graphics engine is the best of all in the turnbased wargames segment, but never the less out of time (it was already when released three years ago). So you best use out of time hardware as well. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscano Posted August 27, 2003 Share Posted August 27, 2003 Do you Radeon users have a problem with dust and smoke too because there will certainly be a lot of that in the desert? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted August 27, 2003 Author Share Posted August 27, 2003 Originally posted by mscano: Do you Radeon users have a problem with dust and smoke too because there will certainly be a lot of that in the desert? Dust and smoke is a different things, works normal 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Scipio - While DirectX 9.0 has support for three types of fog; ATI DOESN'T support 'pixel fog' in their drivers for DirectX. It might be possible (but highly doubtful) to render fog in a software mode, but that would be slow and most likely all 3D hardware acceleration would have to be turned off in order to do this. This would probably also result in transparencies not being supported either. Vertex fog is the preferred method for ATI (and I have no idea where 'range-based' fog fits into the picture here). I haven't seen any ATI products support fog-tables (emulated or otherwise) under DirectX (at least to the level that CM needed) for years. The only attempts resulted in completely gray 3D screens for CM (and that was right before the Radeons came out). Radeons on the PC (DirectX) will not have a problem with dust and smoke. Neither of these routines uses fog-tables to be displayed. However there's no guarantee that some Catalyst driver version in the future may make a mess of these at some point (however NVidia can be quite guilty of bad drivers too). Radeons on the Mac have a bit of a problem at the moment. The Radeon 8500 on the Mac has some problems with transparencies, while the 9000 series has major color palette problems (probably because of CM's 16-bit colors under RAVE) which make CM unplayable. Radeons older than the 8500 (the 7000 series) generally work fine and are the best cards for the Mac at the moment for CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted August 28, 2003 Share Posted August 28, 2003 Originally posted by Schrullenhaft: Radeons older than the 8500 (the 7000 series) generally work fine and are the best cards for the Mac at the moment for CM. Got that, Seanachai? Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.