Michael Dorosh Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I'm unclear on the use of the 50mm mortar in German service post 1942. I thought it was not used after 42, yet these two dudes are wearing "M43" hats. Is this conclusive proof that they did, in fact, use 50mm mortars after 42? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I asked grandpa ,(the one on the left ,little shy one) ,and he don't really remember... But then he said ,that maybe during training .. konrad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rleete Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 I think you're just looking to get banned. Posting in such a rude, arrogant manner, and all. Welcome back, grog. I knew you couldn't stay away! Any further info on the pic? Location, for instance? Unit of the "dudes? I see no insignia. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leakyD Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Whee! My first double post.... [ March 26, 2003, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: leakyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leakyD Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Interesting pic. These boys look 14-16yrs old. You sure they're not from an auxillary formation or something? Wouldn't surprise me if the VG's or Hitler Youth or some other similar formations used older equipment. Then again, it could just be a training pic. Items used in training are not always issued to (or used by) regular combat units. I'm totally ignorant on the subject. Anyone? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 26, 2003 Author Share Posted March 26, 2003 I think the lack of combat decorations is telling. Unfortunately, no details on the photo. They do look young, though, don't they! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanonier Reichmann Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Mere babes in the woods those kids. Kind of depressing really, that photo. I wonder whether they survived the war? Regards Jim R. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 The mortars themselves and their ammo remained in production into calendar 1943. No additional tubes or ammo were produced in 1944 or 1945. Some of them were still certainly being used as late as Normandy - they are in detailed TOEs (gerob's) for some units, typically low priority units like static infantry divisions. Apparently this was just a matter of making use of leftovers (of ammo and of tubes) to fill shortages of 81s. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 26, 2003 Author Share Posted March 26, 2003 So would the 50s have been retained at the platoon/company level in 1944 units still using them, or were they used to replace the battalion mortars in the heavy company? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest konrad Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Originally posted by Kanonier Reichmann: Mere babes in the woods those kids. Kind of depressing really, that photo. I wonder whether they survived the war? Regards Jim R. My grandpa obviously did. konrad 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave H Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 How can we be sure this is a genuine photograph, and not a picture of more uniformed mannequins in your living room? :eek: :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RSColonel_131st Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 IS that thing really as small as it looks? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 The late war standard was for 81mm mortars in the battalion heavy company, and also a pair of them at the company level. Many battalions had less than the full strength of both those levels, however. 2-3 50s seem to have replaced the company level pair of 81s in a number of battalions in less well equipped units, like 700 series "static" infantry divisions and in Ost battalions. For example, in the 716th infantry division, one battalion had 1 81 and 2 50s per company plus 6 81s at battalion. Another had 3 50s per company plus 6 81s at battalion. Another had 2 50s per company plus 6 81s at battalion. No mortar was organic to the platoon level in the late war. The 50s were substitutes for missing 81s in the company heavy weapons platoons, at 1 to 1, 3 to 2, or 2 to 1 "exchange" ratios (perhaps set by personnel - a 50mm needs a smaller crew etc). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Geepers, that's tiny. Reminds me of the Japanese 'knee mortar', inappropriately named because every once in a while an American G.I. would try out a captured weapon by placing it on his knee and... well... you know. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 Excuse me but this is making me sick to the gut. All you intellectuallll snobs talking about things us mere mortals do not comprehend. Please let me alone so I can dress my action men. Ohhh BTW it is Mertars... Gezzzee do you know nothing!!!! Dooohhhh 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcchet92_96 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Hey Mikey, If you are going to quote me, please do so correctly [personal info deleted by Moderator] [ March 26, 2003, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: Battlefront.com ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hohenstaufeninthehood Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 mikeo, i thought you were an expert on this subject, i mean it sure came off like this on the post at the sixth division forum. Maybe you were just pretending like you knew what you were talking about to show off to the action figure collectors. not all of us just "dress up dolls", we do hold interest in the historical side. honestly, you are a complete f'ing a$$hole. i'm glad you have been banned, you won't be missed. BTW: its peculiar that you make fun of us for collecting action figures, when it seems you play video games all day from the looks of this board. what a geek. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Originally posted by JasonC: The late war standard was for 81mm mortars in the battalion heavy company, and also a pair of them at the company level. Many battalions had less than the full strength of both those levels, however. 2-3 50s seem to have replaced the company level pair of 81s in a number of battalions in less well equipped units, like 700 series "static" infantry divisions and in Ost battalions. For example, in the 716th infantry division, one battalion had 1 81 and 2 50s per company plus 6 81s at battalion. Another had 3 50s per company plus 6 81s at battalion. Another had 2 50s per company plus 6 81s at battalion. No mortar was organic to the platoon level in the late war. The 50s were substitutes for missing 81s in the company heavy weapons platoons, at 1 to 1, 3 to 2, or 2 to 1 "exchange" ratios (perhaps set by personnel - a 50mm needs a smaller crew etc). Good info to know, JasonC, thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IANPARKER Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Yeah Mike I thought you knew everything? i guess your video game buds like you here, I hope you have fun with your old friends, as the guys like me at the sixth div arnt good enough an dont know anything about history, only how to dress dolls , As you know your not missed one bit and we are all glad you are banned....... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Hey guys, welcome to Battlefront. There is an off topic section called the General Forum; feel free to post there or join in on the discussions currently going on. I think you'll find quite a learned group of posters here with a more diverse array of interests and educational backgrounds than on most boards. Don't mention the thing about the dolls, though, they have a hard time understanding. Can't say I blame them. Actually haven't played CM in about a month; I recommend the demo to you - navigate to the home page at www.battlefront.com and you will find it easy enough. The Peng Thread is the welcoming committee, feel free to drop in there and say hello. If you have any info on the 50 mortar, I'd love to read about it in this thread. Oh, if you get any designs on challenging me to a PBEM, beware. I suck. Truly. I think my win-loss ratio has hovered below 50 percent for a while, though I don't play all that often, either. Hohenstaufen, I think you would be amazed at the attention to detail in the SS uniforms, frankly, in CMBB; lots of different cam patterns and mods to download. Not much different from re-enacting if you ask me, except not quite so many overweight SS troopies... [ March 26, 2003, 08:51 PM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted March 27, 2003 Author Share Posted March 27, 2003 Edited by poster. [ March 27, 2003, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Michael Dorosh ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Havermeyer- Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Looks like the Wicked Witch of the West is upgunning to me... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 Cripes... usmcchet92_96, hohenstaufeninthehood, and IANPARKER... looks like a virtual lynch mob. Look, I have no idea (nor concern) about what anybody does outside of this Forum. But when I see a virtual gang come onto THIS Forum... I got a problem with that. Coming to this place just to beat up someone is not allowed for obvious reasons. I think you all need to take some deep breathing exercises or something. Because whatever energy you are spending on this is really not worth it. Hopefully you will all just go away now that you have had your little bit of "fun". Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmcchet92_96 Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Battlefront staff, I will leave Mike alone as long as I don't see him quoting something I said on another board that has nothing to do with what goes on here> I am sorry you all had to be involved but I saw no other way to get him to remove the quote. Again I apologize to the members of Battlefront.com. [ March 27, 2003, 05:05 PM: Message edited by: usmcchet92_96 ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted March 28, 2003 Share Posted March 28, 2003 Mike thanks for posting that photo and raising the questions you have. Clearly by discussing this in an adult fashion and seeking to gain a better understanding through discussion with others is a mature way to act. Like KR I too wonder how old those kids were and by the fact that it shows kids would back up the view that it was not a weapon in that period of the war being issued to regular units. Of course during the later part of the war, I am sure all units in the German army made use of what men (and boys) they could enlist. I guess in those days Boys had to learn to be men quicker than boys now a days. Cheers H [ March 27, 2003, 06:01 PM: Message edited by: Holien ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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