Messing with the bunker design (MOD)... * Updated *

[AndrewTF]

I've always been unhappy with the look of the concrete bunkers in CMBB and CMBO, especially with their size and scale compared to vehicles and troops. I figured that they could be representing a structure that was partially below ground (hence the low height) and set out to design something that looked a bit more like a dug-in pillbox.

After looking at *a lot* of bunkers--both pix of German Atlantic wall fortifications and old WW2-era US coastal defence installations near my home--I came up with this:

This mod reflects typical German construction practice (with the layered look to the concrete) as well as the fairly common use of a piece of 20-30mm armor plate protecting the firing aperture.

More views:

Not sure if I'm happy with the results or not, although IMHO it looks a lot more like the concrete fortifications that I've been in and around than the stock CM textures. If anyone's interested let me know and I'll post for download.

Also interested in constructive criticism. The steel plate looks pretty good, but I think the concrete could use something. Just not sure what.

[ July 23, 2003, 07:21 PM: Message edited by: AndrewTF ]

[tooz]

I'm interested, and I would use these bunkers if and when available. Since there is only one size available in the game we can't get too fancy--MG bunkers were a lot smaller than ATG bunkers which in turn were smaller than artillery bunkers (Normandy Coast leaps to mind) and then there were the almost invisible observation bunkers. So, I agree that the one default bunker available could use a change. I'll go prepare a new folder...

[tooz]

What does the concrete need? Well, how about CAMO? Even just a camo netting would look a lot better than plain grey. If camo'd (is that a word?)bunkers are harder to see then GOOD! More realism at the expense of eyestrain. Well, what do you think of camo? Just the fact that these will look cool is enough for me.

It's too bad we can't have damaged bunkers like wee do with buildings. It would just be eye candy but I would get a kick out of seeing a destroyed bunker looking beat up with chunks of concrete torn out and twisted rods protruding thrugh the hholes in the concrete. I have been to Pointe du Hoc and will never forget the sight of those destroyed bunkers--one which is lying upside-down.

[AndrewTF]

Damaged bunker textures similar to what we have with the buildings would be nice, as would larger and more varied fortifications, including bunkers where one could place an infantry squad or two (useful during those arty barrages). Maybe in CM2?

I ran across some photos of camo painted bunkers. Might look good in-game.

[tooz]

Different locales had different types of bunkers and each nation had there own tweak on the design. In addition to bunkers there were also "bombproofs" and command bunkers, but these may be outside the scope of CM. One unusual looking command bunker built by the Germans can still be seen (but not entered) at Carpiquet Airfield. It's more of a long rectangle and only stands about three feet above ground.

Then there are the cupolas which are weakly (IMHO)depicted by using dug-in tanks. In fact, somone at BFC should realize how important (and effective) Panther turret cupolas were in defending the many fortified lines in Italy. Will CMAK have these? Probably not. Even Omaha beach had many old French tank turrets--both cannon and MG sprinkled along the line.

There is so much that can be done but alas, only so much that the modders and BFC can do.

I sure hope these boys at BFC ask us for feedback with the new X2 engine.

[John Kettler]

AndrewTF,

The layer cake look may be historically correct (is it?), but it looks odd to me. Could you please post your CMBO concrete bunker mods to this thread for comparison? Camouflage netting, if doable, would be great. I believe a rougher concrete texture would be good, as would camouflage paint. Years ago, I saw a book called THE ARCHITECTURE OF WAR, one of whose pics was of a German coastal gun position being built. One slick trick to provide the texture was to cover the surface of the still barely hardened concrete with lots of wadded up newspaper balls. The resulting roughness (after removing the balls) went a long way to break up the gun position's visual outline. One suggestion is to steal all the good ideas from your CMBO mods. Should also add that restoring the embrasure stepping in the concrete would be good, assuming the field evidence supports this.

Regards,

John Kettler

[ July 22, 2003, 08:27 PM: Message edited by: John Kettler ]

[AndrewTF]

I never made a CMBO bunker. Not before this one, anyhow.

The Germans usually poured concrete into the forms at 25cm increments, resulting in a somewhat uneven, layered look to many of their fortifications. The effect here is a bit much, but I managed to improve the look somewhat.

This is not a definitive bunker but a sort of amalgam of various styles of MG and AT bunkers that I've seen.

[Pzman]

Looks good Andrew.

[leakyD]

I think the style is great. Variety is a wonderful thing.

The concrete needs to be more weathered. It's kinda factory fresh looking to me!

Thanks for the efforts.

And, yes, we are interested in ALL your mods.

[lcm1947]

Andrew I suppose you could improve on what you have here but as far as I'm concerned it's ready as is. If you decide to make any changes could you email this one to me as I think it's damn good as is. I like the color, the design and texture as is. It looks exactly like what I remember seeing them look like in movies. Great idea and good job on the mod.

[benpark]

Andrew, I would love those as is. Maybe a little wear to the concrete would be a plus.

I had an idea a while back to "hide" the back of the wooden bunker by "pinking" out a triangular section of the back so it looks like just the front area is above ground. Some moss and brush on the top and it would be great.

Don't know if this would work frankly, but you can have the concept if ya like-your mods are always more than welcome at mt .bmp folder.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

I think it's a great mod!

I particularly like the square firing slit, it's exactly like one near my home. I think it's very good.

A greenish hue would be more accurate but I like the look better now. Whatever you do no camo pattern, I haven't seen an actual camo pattern at any of the bunkers (I live in IJmuiden, a significant part of both the Atlantik Wall and Fort Amsterdam) except the E-Boat bunkers. Not sure why because they stand out regardles, those suckers are BIG!

{someday I will make a post without dumb typos, it doesn't look like today is that day}

[ July 22, 2003, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: Tweety ]

[mchlstrt]

I'd say you're on to something with lowering the firing slit. IIRC the top .bmp is shared by the sides, otherwise you could do something with that. Maybe you could play with the virtual 'ground height' on the sides to make it seem more 'set in'. I'm not familiar with the way these textures map so I don't know. Sometimes these 3-D tricks one thinks of really work, & sometimes they really don't, as I'm sure you know.

strt

[Runyan99]

Pretty interesting. Seems more common historically than the long firing slit in other bunker mods.

[Major Jerkov]

Looks really good, throw some camoflague on their and you definately have a winner.

[AndrewTF]

I slapped on a basic red/green camo pattern, although I haven't been able to test it in-game yet. I'll post results here.

[MAUS_TD]

look perfect Andrew,

post it soon pls

maus

[Captain Pies]

Nice work Andrew. FWIW I think the layer lines might look better in light grey (lighter than the base colour) rather than black or dark grey. Those tend to be ridges where the concrete has oozed through gaps in the cladding and should catch the light from above rather than cast a shadow.

I'll use 'em when they're ready.

[Panzertruppe]

Nice work Andrew! I like the way they look now. Please keep us informed as to when we can add this great mod to our CMBO.

[MikeyD]

I've tried a few bunker mods in my day and I must say yours is definitely the most original of any that I've seen... and the best too! Nice job.

Someone above mentioned the 'layer cake' look, I'd speculate that's from the wooden plank mould the concrete was poured into. On old warehouse buildings you can sometimes still see the grain of the wood on the concrete ceilings from the moulds.

[AndrewTF]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

Someone above mentioned the 'layer cake' look, I'd speculate that's from the wooden plank mould the concrete was poured into. On old warehouse buildings you can sometimes still see the grain of the wood on the concrete ceilings from the moulds.

That's right. Apparently construction practice was to lay 25cm of concrete over the rebar, let it set, then repeat as required, creating this sort of look.

I'm going to try to weather the concrete texture a bit more and see what I can come up with, as well as tone down the lines.

[AndrewTF]

Some revised pillbox pix:

The dividing lines between the concrete layers have been lightened, a stronger cast shadow has been added to the armor plate, as well as some more weathering.

Here's the camo version:

[Panzertruppe]

Wow! The camo version is even better! Can't wait! :eek:

[A.E.B]

Andrew TF

If the Germans used iron/steel reinforcing bars in their concrete, then adding rust streaks may be a way to "dirty" up the uncamouflaged version.

Regards

A.E.B

[lcm1947]

Well darn you went ahead and messed around with it and made it better. Ok, that camo one is tops. I really really like it. Outstanding idea and job Andrew. Very nice! That's damn nice.