Most anticipated Soviet vehicles for CM2

[The Commissar]

Im just glad that with Soviet weaponry in the game we wont see any more of those stupid "KT IZ UNKILLABLE! DO SUMFINK!" threads!

Im looking forward to all the Soviet armor. Can't wait to brew up those "nemetski" Panzers!

[Brer Pinkey]

Oh I would have to say T-60, T-70 for Soviet; and PzI, PzIII for Axis. But I can't wait for the Valentine.

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"What are we going to do tonight Brain?"

"The same thing we do every night Pinkey... We're going to take over Europe!"

[Gen-x87]

Jesus what did the Soviets take the battleship approach when they designed the T-35?

What next a tank that can launch aircraft?

Anywho what is the time frame we are looking at in CM2? Is it from the beginning of Barbarossa to the end of the war?

I would love to see how a king tiger can do against the KV1 or T-34.

Gen

[grunto2]

a plain old su-152 will be good enough for me.

in any event i'm fairly certain that 152mm HE will be good against just about any target.

the bt5/7 are going to be fun too.

oddly enough, i want to see more german halftracks, particularly the 37mm recon varieties.

is/2 is another one...

oh, and su-76,

...and pzIII, and pz35 and 38t

'stay away from those woods, there might be at-rifles in there!'

andy

[grunto2]

Originally posted by Pvt. Ryan:

I remember that from CC2, but I thought it was a flaw in the game. It was cool to see one shot from the ISU-152 take out a platoon of Panthers. Will the ISU-152 be that potent in CM2?

i don't think that they'll be _that_ potent, but i'm fairly certain that a direct hit from the 152mm HE will be bad for a panther.

su-152 - 'zverdoy' (beast killer)

i remember reading somewhere that the soviets enjoyed employing artillery (76, 122, 152) in direct fire. that will be fun too.

andy

[gunnergoz]

Sheeesh, I'm soooo bored with the "wait till my King Tiger gets ahold of that cheezy...(insert name of relevant puny Allied tank)" type of comment.

Proponents of the UberTank School of Supposed Battlefield Supremacy are invited to hang out at http://history.vif2.ru/library/archives/weapons/weapons7.html

a little bit and see things from a decidedly different perspective.

Sure, they were big, mean and gnarly but dude, they were just never there when you needed them!

My money's on the decidedly unglamorous but deadly functional (and reliable) JSU's and their ilk.

[lcm1947]

You said which two tanks right? Good, for me it's the T-34 and KV-1. Man, I just want to look at them, drive them and shoot something with them. But I'm afraid I'm spoiled as far as our current lineup goes, appearance wise due to the great mods everybody has made. What if nobody never ever makes us any Russian mods. Think about that. Man, bad thoughts.

[guachi]

Germans - Pz III. A tank that, in its various incarnations, was available for several years. The PZ III has a large variety of potential Soviet adversaries ranging from awful to very good. It should be interesting.

Russians - Anything as I have little knowledge of how an individual vehicle or unit type should actually perform

Jason

[KiwiJoe]

ISU-152

[Grisha]

German-types crashing a Soviet thread again, I see?

I am really looking forward to just having T-34/76s. The rest is gravy

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Best regards,

Greg Leon Guerrero

[Barleyman]

Ok, I see why you like the ISU so much ..

Talk about phallic symbolism

Me? I just want to see if the T-34/40 is as f-king invicible as in steel panthers.

Since the original had those armor tables, the long 60mm gun in PZ-IIIj only had a penetration chance with PzGr-40 .. From any direction!

[KiwiJoe]

Yeah 9/10 chicks say width is more important than lemgth

[MrSpkr]

Definitely the T-35 for the soviets. (Maybe even some Lend-Lease Grants!) The more guns the better!

Would like to see German Pz III-J's and play around with them!

MrSpkr

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But we're saying goodbye to them all

We're Harry's police force on call!

So put back your pack on

The next stop is Saigon

Don't bless the few bless 'em all!

[coe]

I want to see some good ol' Grant tanks

(lend lease)...actually I am wondering if

it will be possible to do those German

swoop in from behind and like destroy

25 russian tanks before they even know

where the german tanks are....

[Guest Mikey D]

I want to see the original Panther ausfD on it's introduction during the Kursk battles in 43.

Just imagine it, a line of twelve mighty Panthers, six break down on the march, three spontaneously catch fire and burn-out, one is enveloped in smoke when small arms fire ignite it's turret-mounted Nebelkurzen smoke candles. That's some exciting game-play!

[MrSpkr]

Couple of more things I would like to see -

Effects of extreme cold on vehicles and troops!

and

Horse Carts and Horses!

(the Russians, like the Germans, made good use of horse carts as basic transport. Also, remember the Russians had several divisions of classic, horse mounted, cavalry in the early years of the war.)

They're vehicles - sorta!

MrSpkr

------------------

But we're saying goodbye to them all

We're Harry's police force on call!

So put back your pack on

The next stop is Saigon

Don't bless the few bless 'em all!

[The Commissar]

Originally posted by lcm1947:

What if nobody never ever makes us any Russian mods. Think about that. Man, bad thoughts.

Dont you worry about that! Since Russians always made a point to use "maskirovka" on their vehicles, troops, transports and everything else they could lay their hands on, I am almost positive we will see some super-keen hi-res vegetation covered "Za Stalina!"-emblemed Soviet AFV's cruising down the battlefield soon after CM2's release.

gunnergoz,

They had a big ol' discussion about the link you mentioned a while back. I dont remember the name of the thread itself, but the general opinion seemed to be that test was not a very good one. Just because the Soviets lined up a KT on a range and shot various projectiles at it did not mean it is not effective. One must consider that the shots were dead on accurate (something very rarely achieved in combat) and that when shell after shell was fired, the internal armor of the KT began to flake after several shots, thereby decreasing its strenght and ruining the rest of the test.

MrSpkr wrote:

"Horse Carts and Horses!"

Sorry to spoil it pal, but it has been discussed to forever, and finally, we have obtained a final answer from Mr. BTS himself:

"The Commisar quoted the following:

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Although they would still make occasional mounted attacks on disorganized or unprepared troops, the tactics usually involved riding horses to a pre-chosen battle line, then dismounting and fighting as infantry. Also, to avoid detection and attack by aircraft, the cavalry moved mainly at night or in bad weather, and avoided known roadways.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Very true. When used in this capacity, especially in the woods or swamps, they were very effective. As dismounted infantry they worked well too. But as was found out early on, straight out 19th century cavalry charges were mostly suicidal.

Combat Mission is just not set up for horse. There would need to be special TacAI just for them, and that would be pretty tough to do. The modeling of the horses, graphically, would be a big undertaking. Remember, we have to program in behavior patterns. Legs don't inherently know they should stick to the torso and foot We would also have to come up with some sort of way to simulate mounts being shot out from under otherwise intact riders. With a horse "squad" unit and a rider squad unit, that would be very tough.

Because of these and a few other reasons, no horses for the Eastern Front. As the quote of mine posted above says very well, we understand that they do have a place on the Eastern Front, but it is simply too small for the effort needed to simulate them. Therefore, no dice.

Steve"

Sorry pal, we tried

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"...Every position, every meter of Soviet soil must be defended to the last drop of blood..."

- Segment from Order 227 "Not a step back"

[MrSpkr]

Drat.

Well, perhaps if we built this giant wooden badger . . .

MrSpkr

------------------

But we're saying goodbye to them all

We're Harry's police force on call!

So put back your pack on

The next stop is Saigon

Don't bless the few bless 'em all!

[LuckyStrike]

I fail to see why everyone is salivating over the prospect of 'crushing' axis armor with the 'formidable' SU-152 HE round, as if it were some kind of nuclear weapon. Do you see Hummel HE rounds taking out allied tanks all over the field? Ah, its only a 150mm round, that must be the difference! And we all know Soviet rounds had much better performance than their German counterparts lol.

[derwood]

Not only am I looking forward to the T-34's, but also to the fact that there will be LOTS'O'DEM. And in earlier scenarios, the match of T-34's against German armor will put the panzers in a much more equal battle!

Panthers & Tigers against American (& Brit, French(haha), etc) armor just wasn't a fair fight.

[MrSpkr]

Originally posted by LuckyStrike:

I fail to see why everyone is salivating over the prospect of 'crushing' axis armor with the 'formidable' SU-152 HE round, as if it were some kind of nuclear weapon.

Agree. Heck, just use the German tactic - immobilize the dang thing, then circle around behind and pound it into dirt.

Would be fun to see a Pz IIIh chasing behind a T-34 firing round after round to no effect, though.

MrSpkr

------------------

But we're saying goodbye to them all

We're Harry's police force on call!

So put back your pack on

The next stop is Saigon

Don't bless the few bless 'em all!

[Forever Babra]

I'm looking forward to all that early German/Czech armour. Since KV-1s are going to be available immediately to the Soviets, I think we can look forward to German players bringing along a few towed-88s to every party.

[Mace]

Originally posted by LuckyStrike:

And we all know Soviet rounds had much better performance than their German counterparts lol.

According to Concord's "Stalin's Heavy tanks 1941-1945"

"The ISU 122 and 152 also earned the reputation of being the deadliest enemy of the German Tiger I tanks. For example, of the 12 Tiger I tanks of sPzAbt502 destroyed in summer 1944 fighting in Byelorussia and the Baltic coast, about half could be attributed to ISU-122s or ISU-152s."

The ISUs were originally developed to counter the heavier AFVs being fielded by the Germans during the mid stage of the war.

Mace

[Guest machineman]

An account of what happened when an IS-II shell hit a Stug:

"For once, the Russians struck our tank with their first round. The projectile hit our vehicle between the barrel and the barrel sleeve of our cannon. It tore our cannon off where it struck and, incredibly, entered the exposed chamber where it detonated, causing our loaded round to detonate as well. This tremendous explosion caused our waiting rounds, though not the magazine, to instantly explode as well. Eyewitnesses stated that our welded assault gun's armored roof was propelled from its position by a sheet of flame that rose about 100 meters into the air.

From:

http://www.feldgrau.com/interview6.html

[This message has been edited by machineman (edited 03-30-2001).]

[Sparky9292]

Just wait till I bring out these bad boys to put some whuup ass on Nazi scum.

KV-2

The Axis scum will tremble when I rumble these babies:

D8

[This message has been edited by Sparky9292 (edited 03-30-2001).]