Col Deadmarsh Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Has anyone ever used guns in meeting or attack scenarios by moving them up with trucks and placing them in strategic positions without being spotted? Also, what strategies do you use to protect them from arty or other weapons that have big HE rounds? Obviously, if you move up a gun, and it is seen, you've lost the advantage of surprise. So I would think this is key to using one on the attack, just as it's equally important for it to be hidden on defense. The first thing that comes to mind here would be to use smoke to disguise your doings but then that would alert the enemy that you're up to something... ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 I sometimes try to use them. TRY is the operative word here. My hope is that there will be a good terrain feature (e.g. a patch of woods on the side of a hill) that I can tow the gun toward, then deploy it in the early turns of the game, before it is spotted. The spot has to have a good LOS, preferably a valley, where I think my opponent might use to reach the flags. So far that hasn't worked though. I played one encounter game against Deadline last year where I had two towed British AT guns, I set them up to shore up my rear. One of them shot a few rounds, but in the end they didn't amount to much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Never tried them when assaulting or in a ME. The simple reason being that, when purchasing units, there is no way to know if you're gonna have a good deployement spot. As Patboivin says: one can only hope... But hope alone won't win a battle. I'd rather spend my points on a more mobile gun in these cases. ------------------ I prefer an enemy who's willing to die for his country. That way both him and me have the same aim in mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever Babra Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 I don't use guns in attack or meeting engagements. These are not really front line units. ------------------ Massada Lo Tipol Shenit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 No. They are a waste of points unless you are able to see the map first. ------------------ What do we do with a terrible liar? Well, Great liars we send into the clergy. Good liars we groom for politics. Moderate liars we supply with sherrif's badges and guns, and the bad liars, well, we make them heroin whores. So what the hell do we do with the Terrible Liars? Well, it seems we turn them into physicists called "chrisl." Peng Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banshee Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 If I play the germans i'll always buy a 20mm. If the lay of the land is such that I dont have a good field of fire I will use tow it to a spot which can fire perpendicular to the advancing axis (but well forward) but is still covered from the front. Forests and the sides of hills work well. The points are low enough for a 20mm (and 75mm) where if you dont have a good LOS your not out very much , but if you do have LOS you get quite a payback. ------------------ Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted January 19, 2001 Author Share Posted January 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>If I play the germans i'll always buy a 20mm. If the lay of the land is such that I dont have a good field of fire I will use tow it to a spot which can fire perpendicular to the advancing axis (but well forward) but is still covered from the front. Forests and the sides of hills work well. The points are low enough for a 20mm (and 75mm) where if you dont have a good LOS your not out very much , but if you do have LOS you get quite a payback.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly what I was thinking. I've noticed that the flags are always pretty much lined up with each other which means the enemy will almost always in a meeting scenario, stand in back in a line to guard positions or to soften up positions for advancing infantry. Thus, on a medium or large map, if you could secretly move up a gun perpendicular with his support teams, you could have one or two side shots on his tanks. It seems hard to do but if done correctly, meaning moving the gun in unspotted into a perpendicular position with the opposing units, one could wreak havoc on his opponent's formation. Everything would be thrown into chaos. Of course, I would think you'd need a big map and a lot of tree cover to pull it off. ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Yes, I have occasionally tried this when the game parameters were right and never regretted it. They are vulnerable and never use trucks to tow them but if you keep them hidden they can be a nasty suprise for your opponent. If something with a big gun has a bead on them then they have a bead on it. Give them a high quality crew and if they knock out one decent AFV they've repayed you straight away. The HE can come in handy too. ------------------ Muddying the waters as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 I take that back. I never use them, they're hopeless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Yeah, towed guns are hard to use successfully in mobile situations. But it can be done. Banshee has it about right. One thing I've done is to move them along a map edge that has been cleared of enemy units while I engage the enemy's main force in the center. After I unlimber them in position, they can cut off enemy units trying to escape off the board edge. It's pretty iffy though. All in all, probably better to spend your points on a couple extra MGs. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subvet Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 I've tried it a few times but without much success. I'm not saying it can't be done or that you shouldn't try it out yourself, I just have not been able to make much use of them in this kind of scenario. On the right kind of map they could be very usefull I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 I thought everybody used guns on the attack. After all, how else do you soften up the enemy line for your assault columns of gleaming bayonets, but with a grand battery of all your guns lined up wheel-to-wheel? It helps, of course, to first threaten the enemy with your cavalry and make him form square, thus providing better artillery targets, but the gun is still the decisive weapon. Vive l'Empereur! Seriously, I like to play Brits and when you buy a complete Brit battalion, you get 6 6pdrs with carriers to tow them whether you want them or not. If you're attacking, they don't usually do you much good in the rear so I send them forward to support the grunts and use them in the approved Napoleanic manner. Their puny shells don't do much damage to dug-in grunts but neither does the 2" mortar. Plus the 6pdr is much more likely to hit close enough to catch the enemy in its tiny blast radius than the 2" mortar, and can fire from a useful distance back. Besides, if the enemy sends up armor in support, I'll be ready for it. At the very least, the enemy might waste some arty ammo on them instead of my grunts But the main thing is, it's just cool to use guns in the Napoleanic tradition in a WW2 battle . ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Pillar Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 In meeting engagements they make great rear guards against enemy armor flanking and enveloping maneuver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scipio Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 They CAN be very usefull if you have luck with the terrain. If not, they stand only stand arround. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinty Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 One word:"overwatch" Of course that's all terrain dependant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terence Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Once, I was playing as the british in an attack scenario and for some reason, I took 2 17-lber anti-tank guns and lucked out with a high hill on the extreme left that had two housesd on it and unobstructed LOS to the town with the VLs in it. I stuck the guns behind the houses and when I was ready to assault the town, pushed them out from behind the houses in a way that they could see what was going on and started shooting. One gun got knocked out, but the other one took out 4 HTs and 3 tanks and was still alive but out of ammo at the end of the battle. However, if I hadn't gotten so lucky with the terrain, the guns might have been utterly useless. [This message has been edited by Terence (edited 01-19-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiram Sedai Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 I buy one per PBEM if its an ME. I believe that if my AT gun takes out a tank, it just paid for itself pointwise. If my inf gun suppressed a squad, then I am happy. I like guns because you can attach them to a commander and the gun gets the bonus that the commander might have. Tanks don't have that bonus. Plus, my guns last longer than my tank destroyers. Its all where you place them. ------------------ Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from religious conviction. - Blaise Pascal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wwb_99 Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 I got bit by a 17pdr in a pbem game. With meduim hillyness and forestation, there is a very good chance that your ATG can be deployed with a really nasty field of fire from a nice concealed position. And you opponent in in for a suprise when it opens up and pops his Panther from the front 800m when he thought he was safe because all he saw was pop-gun shermans and who would be crazy enough to buy an ATG in an ME, right? WWB ------------------ Before battle, my digital soldiers turn to me and say, Ave, Caesar! Morituri te salutamus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-Havermeyer- Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 I can attest to their effectiveness (and Scipio's ability to employ them in close support). Just be able to saddle 'em up quick. Shoot an scoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Runyan99 Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 I have used an AT gun in a ME, and I was able to knock out one of my opponent's Shermans with it. He never knew what hit him. Usually, you can find a use for them. Either place them somewhere where they have good LOS to the objective flags, or place them along a route which you want to try to deny to enemy armor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grim Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 In my most recent PBEM Mech vs Inf attacks I've been experimenting with a 105mm, and I think they're pretty handy. The idea is to hide it until you've sent the troops forward to find his MLR. Your guys get artyed to blazes and find his guns etc. By about turn 20 you should have pushed him back to the houses, but may be running short on ammo to winkle him out. Believe me, he won't be happy to see your 105 unlimbering, but there may well be nothing he can do about it. Several flattened/burning houses later and you too will always want some HE backup. Obviously it's a bit superfluous if you have armour, but they're a nasty surprise in Mechanised attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted January 19, 2001 Author Share Posted January 19, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Obviously it's a bit superfluous if you have armour, but they're a nasty surprise in Mechanised attacks.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> See, my reasoning behind it is that they would have a faster rate of fire than your average tank. Of course, I haven't tried this out yet so I'm not sure if this is true or not. Yet again I'm going by what I learned in CC2 which doesn't exactly strive for total realism. I would think though that they would be harder to hit since the silouette is smaller, and with a faster rate of fire it would be a better risk than pulling out your tanks in a situation where you need to clear a certain area of enemy armor. Has anybody done any Rate Of Fire tests in this game? How do guns compare to tanks? ------------------ Youth is wasted on the young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted January 19, 2001 Share Posted January 19, 2001 Hey guys, Read the AAR at my site to see how effective a regular AT gun is in a Meeting Engagement. I have personally found AT guns to be most resistant to 81mm artillery fire, which is often the standard that players pick. AT guns are a very stealthy way of picking off enemy tanks, and they are cheap! ------------------ Rugged Defense England Team Website: http://combatmission.portland.co.uk/ For all our AARs (not those which have been lost) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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