Wehrmacht Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 I've just started playing the Demo and this game is one that my friend and I have been longing for for a long time! Talonsoft came close with its Campaign Series with its isometric view, but lacked the real time combat feature. Microsoft did the Close Combat series with its real time aspect but outdated top-down look. I first saw advertisments for Combat Mission early in its development and wasn't sure of its point and future. It looked a bit outdated before it got started, but with this demo and latest screenshots, I am totally impressed! The vehicle graphics look awesome! Bitmapped or PCX'ed textured polygons have revolutionized 3D games and applications to the utmost realism. But what further impressed me was that treads actually move. However, and I'm basing this on the beta demo, but the explosion graphics and tank shots aren't too impressive. The need to be *ha* bitmapped fiery bellows. Also a feature that should be a MUST-have is a Jump Map that shows your units and known enemy units as dots in a top-down miniature map at the bottom of the screen. *It's hard to find your troops sometimes!* Thanks, that's all I can think of right now. ------------------ Wars are not won by dying for your country; Wars are won by making the other poor bastard die for his country.--George S. Patton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billcarey Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Also a feature that should be a MUST-have is a Jump Map that shows your units and known enemy units as dots in a top-down miniature map at the bottom of the screen. *It's hard to find your troops sometimes!* --- If you use view 6 or 7 (or 8 for big battles) and turn bases on (shift- you will get the feature you are looking for. Earlier in the development textures were used for explosions and tanks firing. I forget what the decision was, but either they chewed up too much VRAM (there can be *a lot* or explosions (3 Arty FOs and 3 AFVs ) or that they were just bad looking. This has been considered and I think the way it is now is going to stay. If anyone knows better than me... Welcome to the crew (and the addiction ) - Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Balaban Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Before you select any unit use the +/- key on your number pad and the first unit will be selected (+) or last unit (-) and you can go through the whole roster of your units. I hope I explained it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Every graphics improvement means another hit in framerate. The only way to negate that is to rob the game of either AI programming or physics tracking, and those are two very important areas. No to the top-down, dots map. If you have trouble seeing guys, hit shift+C and that will make them bigger (only GRAPHICALLY bigger, they are still the same size in the game engine) DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Here's another one: toggle trees off - Shift-T and unit bases on - Shift-B (I think)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wehrmacht Posted January 24, 2000 Author Share Posted January 24, 2000 OK, thanks guys. I knew of those features, but they didn't register as solutions to my problems. Ha, *slap my forehead* Ha. ------------------ Wars are not won by dying for your country; Wars are won by making the other poor bastard die for his country.--George S. Patton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lanzfeld Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 I am a big fan of better game play over graphics. IMHO I think the explosions and tank blasts are great and functional. One thing that is really cool to do is replay a battle and set the camera up to 3 or 4 and start at one end of the battlefield and scroll nonstop to the other while imagining your an aicraft flying low over the action. With all the tracers and explosions going on its great! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffRaider Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Looking at screen shots, I had thought the explosion graphics were kind of lame, but all that changed the first time I had the camera directly behind one of my Shermans, just as an 88 knocked it out. Never jumped off my seat in a computer game before!! [This message has been edited by JeffRaider (edited 01-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop88 Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Another note about graphics. A lot depends on the machine you are using. I had been playing the demo on a Mac G-3 and I thought the graphics were great ... until I set up my new G-4 at home over the weekend. Whoa! Unbelieveable! What had been sort of washed out green grass came alive with very rich textures on the G-4. And the muzzle blasts and shell bursts looked much more realistic. The detail on the vehicles popped out much more, too. My hat's off to BTS for a good-looking, very playable and fun (not to mention realistic, which it is) game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killmore Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 I want real time. Stop complaining about decreasing amount of phisics ect if real time becomes reality. Just say that you need P-II 400 minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 One neat thing I would like to see implemented at a later date is a full movie of the entire operation. After the end of the game a movie file would be created allowing an individual from both sides to see the entire gameplay from either their own FOW, their enemies FOW, or no FOW. Seeing 30-60 minutes of continuous CM gameplay might take a while, but, for the odd battle it will be very interesting. You can pause, restart and even move the camera around just like the turn movies, except, it is one long deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lempereur Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 The smoke need to be improved greatly. Smoke screens were white, as opposed to smoke billowing from a tank. Also, there does not seem to be any drifting smoke. In miniature wargaming all this is covered. This game almost has me selling off all of my miniature WW2 figures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 One of the things one of my friends said when he saw the smoke is "There going to improve it for the release version, right?" Well, today one can with the 3D Cards and all have the transluscent and realistic looking smoke. However, as Steve and Charles have said, making smoke more complicated at the present time will slow down the process of the game too much. Many Wargamers don't have the big and expensive machines that most people who play shootemup games have, as previously they weren't graphically intensive. What BTS is doing is to ensure that individuals can still play this game on lower level computers. I have a P233 with a 3D effects card and the Demo runs fine. They don't want everyone to have to go out to buy a new computer to play their game. Possibly as an upgrade, as the average computer speed increases so too might the graphics and real-quality of the game. Possibly in a few years we can have everyone in a squad represented in CM? They could do that now, but, only the 12 Richest Kings in Europe have the computers that could run the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 I brought this up back in August when I discovered Combat Mission. I realize that the whole squad will not represented for a long time but I think that they should make it so that the squads aren't always in the triangle pattern. If they moved around freely it would be much more realistic. I would rather see better smoke and better fire implmented before this of course. I think that the fire and smoke issues will really hurt CM in reviews. If any of you have ever played Carmageddon 2 this game has huge outdoor areas and amazing graphics. Better smoke and fire is definetly possible. ------------------ Visit my Combat Mission for Mac page! With all off CCJ's tweaked textures for Mac! cm4mac.tripod.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Gee, if people want better graphics, then I want hexes. And come to think of it, if people want real time, then I want an exclusive 2d top down representation. My first, and last comment re: better graphics....it's a wargame, not a bloody beauty salon. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Still, the more realistic the wargame, the better the feel for it. CM is a spectacular wargame for it's realistic programing and very realistic graphics. Having 2D models or EGA graphics would only serve to detach the player from the game. I am pretty sure that later versions of CM will take full advantage of technology. Even if it is just a wargame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug Beman Posted January 24, 2000 Share Posted January 24, 2000 Yes, better smoke and fire is possible, but please remember that Carmaggedon's scale is much different from CM's. CM simulates so much more than Carmaggedon that computing horsepower is needed far more for solid AI and physics. As for drifting smoke, that requires detailed weather effects, and recreating detailed weather is a simulation in and itself. If the Weather Channel guys, with their banks of computers, can't correctly predict what the weather in the 5 miles around my house will be like tomorrow morning, CM's going to have a hard time doing the same thing with home PCs. killmore, upping the machine minimum to P2-400 (with 3D card, natch) would instantly cut CM's target audience by something like half, since bunches and bunches of people out there don't have the manly machines that realtime (or individual squad members moving independently, or transparent smoke, or...) will require. Lots of us, myself included, have been forced by life to put computing power pretty far down the list of priorities. We can't make an upgrade (or buy a whole new system) that will cost $1000 plus, even if it is to play CM. As for graphics hurting reviews, I think CM is in a class that (should) value function over form. For Quake3 or whatever, graphics are an integral part of getting immersed in the game, because it's YOU doing the moving or shooting or whatever, and the graphics have to be sharp enough to let you aim precisely, etc etc. With CM, there's so much more to the game than what any one viewpoint shows (whether it's pretty pictures or photo-realistic guts spilling from an alien attacker) that it's not about how it looks, it's about what it is. Spleenvent closed. DjB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lempereur Posted January 25, 2000 Share Posted January 25, 2000 Put in the smoke. I have a P200 with a cheapo Vodoo Banshee card in it and the game runs very nicely. 3D cards are so cheap now there is no excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted January 25, 2000 Share Posted January 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Put in the smoke. I have a P200 with a cheapo Vodoo Banshee card in it and the game runs very nicely. 3D cards are so cheap now there is no excuse.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Leave out the smoke. I have a friend that I habitually play against. His computer wouldn't handle it. I value him more as an opponent than I do flashy graphics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted January 25, 2000 Share Posted January 25, 2000 To put in smoke that you would find realistic NOBODY'S system would be able to handle it We could put in translucent smoke sprites, but different colors, patterns, etc. are out of the question. So we don't think the CPU hit would make anybody happy. And I hate to tell you a P200 is the low end that would be cut out by stuff like this. We are already overtaxing these systems, although the frame rate is OK. But play on a P400 and you will see a whole different game! Do a search on SMOKE and you will find several long threads about this. To do it realisitically is beyond the ability of any home PC. As for minor improvements, we will if we have time. Finishing the game certainly takes priority over smoke graphics Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pirate Posted January 25, 2000 Share Posted January 25, 2000 well, this is not true, in computer gaming. It may be true for CM. Smoke, explosions, and other effects work on other machines and other programms. Don't try and tell me different. They work in none 3d as sprites painted on 2D objects in the 3D world and they look cool. What CM needs is a real time engine, and some good effects, and some cool flash bang. You can say what you want about the numbers that are pushing this game, but it just does not show. Steve and Cherles have done a great job in meshing real 3D and turned based gaming. It just does not turn me on. I'm sorry, but the demo does not do it for me. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard III Posted January 25, 2000 Share Posted January 25, 2000 Pirate, Sorry if turn based doesn't do it for you, but as has been said umpty-skillion times it is not possible to achieve the high degree of realism found in CM in a real-time engine, unless you happen to own a personal super computer. If I were forced to complain about something in CM, I suppose it would indeed be the fire and smoke GFX. However, I am more than happy to wait for CM2 for that... I think CM has 'cool flash bang' a-plenty, but that's just me. Playing it is a visceral experience unlike any other wargame I have ever seen. I find it even more immersive than 1st person shooter type games in that it represents a real-life situation in a realistic way. I liked Half Life also, but really, some scientist singlehandedly wipes out a brigade or so of Special Forces? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major Tom Posted January 25, 2000 Share Posted January 25, 2000 Pirate, you saying that CM will be better in Real Time would be just like someone else saying that Command and Conquer would be a better turn based strategy. I have come to notice after all of my multiple game playing (Master of Orion Series, Command and Conquer, Civilization Series, Total Annihilation, etc..) that the best replay value has always been on the turn based ones. You can just do more in a turn based game, you have more control. Indeed, I respect your liking of Real Time strategies, I also do enjoy them also, but, each of these games has their limits and good points. Real time loses in it's complexity whereas turn based lose a little realism. It is sort of a mute point, saying that I would like this game if it was something that it isn't. However, I do respect your freedom to like RT strategy games. [This message has been edited by Major Tom (edited 01-25-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sage Posted January 25, 2000 Share Posted January 25, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: To put in smoke that you would find realistic NOBODY'S system would be able to handle it We could put in translucent smoke sprites, but different colors, patterns, etc. are out of the question. So we don't think the CPU hit would make anybody happy. And I hate to tell you a P200 is the low end that would be cut out by stuff like this. We are already overtaxing these systems, although the frame rate is OK. But play on a P400 and you will see a whole different game! Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think translucent sprites would be an improvment. The smoke currently looks pretty aweful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lempereur Posted January 26, 2000 Share Posted January 26, 2000 Richard, thank you! I looked at the cool smoke effects that people added into Red Baron 3d and I don't see any reason they cannot improve the smoke effects in CM. The smoke currently resembles large deformed mushrooms sprouting from the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts