Second Front

[Bufo]

Nice review from Strategy and Wargaming website about Second Front, a newly released WW2 turn based wargame: 

https://strategyandwargaming.com/2023/01/31/second-front-review-a-magnum-opus-despite-its-flaws/

[Erwin]

Not sure the BF fans will like it if this is the look:

[Bufo]

59 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Not sure the BF fans will like it if this is the look:

I also don't like the looks, however when anybody drops here criticizing the outdated graphics of the CM series, he always gets the same answer: it doesn't matter and fancy graphics are not needed for a wargame 

Edited February 1, 2023 by Bufo

[Erwin]

That is true...  However, 2nd Front looks like a huge step backwards to 1990's era graphics that make CM1 look amazing.

[Vacillator]

So his summary includes:

I would argue it’s one of the most complex wargames at the tactical scale level, surpassed solely (only in some aspects) by the likes of Combat Mission and the Graviteam Tactics series.

Coupled with the cartoon graphics I think we're probably better off with CM.  Having said that he was very complimentary about Second Front's AI both on the offense and defense.

[RockinHarry]

It´s said to be kind of ASL in 3D or so. Have it on my list, but not really time nor great interest for it though. I well remember my Microprose times in the late 80´ies and they were great. Unsure about this one, but seems they start anew with something "simple".

[RockinHarry]

26 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

So his summary includes:

I would argue it’s one of the most complex wargames at the tactical scale level, surpassed solely (only in some aspects) by the likes of Combat Mission and the Graviteam Tactics series.

Coupled with the cartoon graphics I think we're probably better off with CM.  Having said that he was very complimentary about Second Front's AI both on the offense and defense.

Maybe, maybe not. Is it open for modding btw?

[JM Stuff]

5 hours ago, Erwin said:

Not sure the BF fans will like it if this is the look:

Funny this game with hexagones , I have also something, perhaps a little more old but also very nice for the time...

Cheers

 

 

[Bufo]

11 hours ago, Vacillator said:

Coupled with the cartoon graphics I think we're probably better off with CM. 

While both being wargames, the two offer very different gameplay (real time vs turn based), so they aren't competitors.

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, Bufo said:

so they aren't competitors.

Fair point, it's just that the reviewer compared them so I thought I'd mention it.  I had a look for a demo but I don't think there is one?

[benpark]

From the entire two hours I have been able to dedicate to playing the game in the wee hours-

It has a truly great map editor, cartoony though it is.

Gameplay is a cross between CMx1, Battle Academy (quite a bit like that one), SPWAW, and table-top play. It is a bit in debt to it's predecessors, but does a good job in the synthesis. It's new enough, and does well in the balance between abstract and "realistic". I am using it in the "tabletop" spirit, and enjoying it well enough. It's no CM replacement, however. I think it will be a good addition to most libraries.

The campaigns are where my interest lies- they seem a bit like a CMx1 Operation- with maps shifting, wrecks tracked, etc..

Negatives- There's a need to unlock scenarios prior to playing others. Randomness seems over-represented in the combat results (appreciated though the inclusion is), The cartoony look is...OK, and can be repetitive. There's only auto-save. The game designer seems to have set ideas about how the thing plays, so we will see how adaptable he is when the majority tell him they need things like "saves" on demand.

Edited February 2, 2023 by benpark

[Bufo]

4 hours ago, Vacillator said:

Fair point, it's just that the reviewer compared them so I thought I'd mention it.  I had a look for a demo but I don't think there is one?

Unfortunately there isn't.

[RockinHarry]

Had another look at steam, watching some videos and reading player reviews. Well, still a big NO, even considering it maybe has good mechanics underlying. Can´t get over these Airfix graphics. *shudder*

[Erwin]

What I very much like is the ability to enter the tank and take up the gunner position and some other positions looking thru the vision slits.  However, other sims have done that a lot better.  Certainly wish we could do that with CM2.

[RockinHarry]

3 hours ago, Erwin said:

What I very much like is the ability to enter the tank and take up the gunner position and some other positions looking thru the vision slits.  However, other sims have done that a lot better.  Certainly wish we could do that with CM2.

Interesting. Still might grab it in half a year or so and when on sale. Gotta look for a manual (steam?) and read some on the games capabilities. Who knows....

Yep, a 106 page GM can be downloaded from steam and I just did do.

[BletchleyGeek]

20 hours ago, benpark said:

Negatives- There's a need to unlock scenarios prior to playing others. Randomness seems over-represented in the combat results (appreciated though the inclusion is), The cartoony look is...OK, and can be repetitive. There's only auto-save. The game designer seems to have set ideas about how the thing plays, so we will see how adaptable he is when the majority tell him they need things like "saves" on demand.

I agree very much with the assessment. I must say that for a one man show it is pretty impressive... yet many of the design decisions are a bit ehm, particular. Steam workshop scenarios can be played at will, and with the editor I am pretty sure many "classics" will be available to play sooner than later. The scenarios feel like, on the basis of a couple attempts,  time and resource management puzzles in the disguise of a WW2 tactical wargame.

There is no off map arty or CAS, neither on map indirect fire either.

In terms of gameplay I think is much like The Troop, all things considered, but with more content yet much less immersive qualities.

 

[RockinHarry]

On 2/3/2023 at 9:08 AM, RockinHarry said:

Interesting. Still might grab it in half a year or so and when on sale. Gotta look for a manual (steam?) and read some on the games capabilities. Who knows....

Yep, a 106 page GM can be downloaded from steam and I just did do.

Hahaha.... said he and then hardly 24 hours later he pushed the "purchase" button. Damn curiosity.

[Bufo]

18 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Hahaha.... said he and then hardly 24 hours later he pushed the "purchase" button. Damn curiosity.

Then you can tell us what do you think of this game 

[Vacillator]

1 hour ago, Bufo said:

Then you can tell us what do you think of this game 

Yes I would trust Harry's view to inform my own purchase or not.  I'm in the not camp at the moment.

[RockinHarry]

3 hours ago, Bufo said:

Then you can tell us what do you think of this game 

 

2 hours ago, Vacillator said:

Yes I would trust Harry's view to inform my own purchase or not.  I'm in the not camp at the moment.

Sorry guys. Just´ve launched it once, had a look around in that "armory" (sort of ), then started 1st tutorial mission. After barely 5 minutes I´s out again.  Simply lacked time. But as soon as I got some real impression I start posting here. As said, it´s a spontaneous buy. I´ve also seen it supports steam workshop, the currently existing player reviews sound promising (lots of comparing with ASL) and then thinking to myself that it´s just at the beginning and lots of improvements are yet to come for sure. (It´s Microprose!)  Less than 30$.... small HD footprint... *click*... purchase.

Edit: will be surely interesting to compare with Lock´n Load Digital Tactical which I own for a year or so, but as well had barely time playing and learning.

Edited February 5, 2023 by RockinHarry

[Vacillator]

1 minute ago, RockinHarry said:

it´s just at the beginning

No worries, eager to hear more thoughts.  I bought Il2 Tank Crew early on just to support it and have hardly played it, but I will if I can stop playing CM.

[RockinHarry]

6 minutes ago, Vacillator said:

No worries, eager to hear more thoughts.  I bought Il2 Tank Crew early on just to support it and have hardly played it, but I will if I can stop playing CM.

Aaah.... Tank Crew. Have it on my wishlist for long time, but same here. Would have no time for it. I´ll likely buy the non steam version since it runs without any the theater packs ( at less cost as well).

Edit: you can find me at steam with "HarryZ" (german para avatar pic)

Edited February 5, 2023 by RockinHarry

[Erwin]

IL2 Tank Crew looks amazing.  Anyone know if it's good vs the AI or designed for multiplayer?

[Vacillator]

11 hours ago, Erwin said:

Anyone know if it's good vs the AI or designed for multiplayer?

There are quite a lot of single player missions (including in particular a load from one guy on their forum who keeps releasing an updated scenrio pack) and quite a few campaigns.  

Is the AI any good?  I can't really comment as I haven't got much further than the firing range.  It did teach me the correct way to aim a Tiger's 88mm though .

The other thing it made me think about was my old TrackIR head-tracker - this is supoorted but only with a later version than mine IIRC.  And I think there's also VR beyond that.  I can have a look if anyone wants confirmation.

Edited February 6, 2023 by Vacillator

[Bufo]

13 hours ago, Erwin said:

IL2 Tank Crew looks amazing.  Anyone know if it's good vs the AI or designed for multiplayer?

2 tanks (1 each side) are free to use for everybody, so you can check it yourself.