A few wee questions about potentially missing features

[Bagpipe]

Hello folks,

I am tip-toe'ing very carefully into this minefield but I have to ask...

Can anybody tell me if there are the following functions in CM currently (if not it would be great to have them  );

1- Ability to cycle through unit's issued waypoints/commands. Without having to click on them. To expand on this a little, it can be a real faff at times, especially with the waypoint markers requiring that you click very precisely on them to select them, I find much of my time is spent playing camera man. A nicer feature would be to allow the user to cycle to the waypoint and then use, say, the middle mouse button to drag it around for fine tuning as opposed to trying to select it from the other end of the map and consequently deselecting the unit by not clicking directly on the command marker... *groan*

2- Ability to have unit/vehicle follow another unit/vehicle in convoy or formation... Seems like an obvious one and again, if it already exists please forgive my ignorance and be so kind as to point me to the nearest vein of knowledge

That's all currently, and it is more due to the fact that I have not played in a few months that I am noticing these little niggles more but I do feel that a lot of time is wasted in-game on things which could be a lot smoother and user friendly and without the need for a great deal of work I presume.

The convoy one is a big one for me, really hope there is a way to do that and I just haven't noticed! 

Cheers

[Ultradave]

Convoy feature was tried. In testing it worked sometimes, but didn't work enough times that it was decided that people would be more aggravated by it than helped. Maybe someday, because I (and many others) sure would like it too, especially where a force comes on map in road march.

Dave

[Vacillator]

Yes, what Dave said about convoys .  I have often yearned for a convoy function.

On the cycling through waypoints, I'm not aware of such a thing.  And yes I spend ages clicking on waypoints and paths, only to lose the path and have to find it again.  Unless someone wiser (not a big ask) comes along, I think this is currently a 'wish list' item.  Doesn't stop me playing though .

[Artkin]

42 minutes ago, Bagpipe said:

1- Ability to cycle through unit's issued waypoints/commands. Without having to click on them. To expand on this a little, it can be a real faff at times, especially with the waypoint markers requiring that you click very precisely on them to select them, I find much of my time is spent playing camera man. A nicer feature would be to allow the user to cycle to the waypoint and then use, say, the middle mouse button to drag it around for fine tuning as opposed to trying to select it from the other end of the map and consequently deselecting the unit by not clicking directly on the command marker... 

Try clicking the line instead of the point 

[Bagpipe]

1 minute ago, Artkin said:

Try clicking the line instead of the point 

A very good point and one that i actually encountered not too long after posting lmao!

Still...I am dizzy from all the in and out with the camera, as fun as it is at times

[Artkin]

Just now, Bagpipe said:

Still...I am dizzy from all the in and out with the camera, as fun as it is at times

It becomes a lot, especially when you replay a turn 5-10 times from various angles. 

In regards to keeping your troops on a tighter leash, I liberally use Tab when setting waypoints on larger maps. That way I can make things a bit quicker. 

If I made space on my keyboard I could make things slightly faster with the next and previous unit hotkeys. Those are particularly valuable when I play with icons off. 

[AlexUK]

1 hour ago, Artkin said:

Try clicking the line instead of the point 

I would like a hotkey to directly select the last waypoint (end point) of the selected unit. So much less hassle than trying to select either the line or the waypoint marker itself (particularly as the selecting arrow seems to be a pixel or two off, so you can’t use the very tip of the selector to select the waypoint marker). Frustrating at the moment. 

[chuckdyke]

Best done from camera position 5, zoom in and out with the mouse wheel.

[chuckdyke]

5 hours ago, Bagpipe said:

The convoy one is a big one for me, really hope there is a way to do that and I just haven't noticed! 

Battle for Normandy tutorial. Select all vehicles and figure the route. 

The +key selects the next vehicle. Zoom in select the way point, drag it in the correct position.

Allow 15 seconds between vehicles. With practice it takes less than a minute.

 

 

[Codreanu]

Some scenarios become almost painful to play without a convoy command, I wonder if any of the playtesters for LINNET II developed carpal tunnel or tendinitis. 

[Artkin]

I'm sure the play testers never even got to that point before CMBN crashed, or they gave up from the lag.

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Codreanu said:

Some scenarios become almost painful to play without a convoy command,

Which scenario? At most distance covered is 4 km. To dismount is the logical way to go. In my test above the first truck covered 500 mtr on fast in one minute. Fast translates 30 km/hr. Most trucks got green for mobility same or better than some tanks. Little is gained by sticking to the roads. 

[Grey_Fox]

4 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Which scenario? At most distance covered is 4 km. To dismount is the logical way to go. In my test above the first truck covered 500 mtr on fast in one minute. Fast translates 30 km/hr. Most trucks got green for mobility same or better than some tanks. Little is gained by sticking to the roads. 

That's fine when moving one truck. What happens when you have to move a battalion of trucks? What happens when you need to move that battalion through dense terrain following a road?

Edited August 17, 2022 by Grey_Fox

[Ultradave]

47 minutes ago, Grey_Fox said:

That's fine when moving one truck. What happens when you have to move a battalion of trucks? What happens when you need to move that battalion through dense terrain following a road?

Exactly. Easy to come up with places where you can get by. I think it's the second scenario of KG Peiper? where you start out in a long road column in the woods with a large setup zone. The only way forward for a bit is down the road until you (I believe?) cross a bridge, then it opens up. It's waypoint tedium, and selecting all and clicking out of the set up zone is pretty much impossible. Waaaay too many paths to pick out the one you want to edit next.

When I've played this one I just sat for one turn so there was no setup zone and then start the click fest. Less frustrating. This one would benefit hugely from a convoy order. Just to pick one example.

Dave

[landser]

There's an exit mission in Kampfgruppe Engel for CMBN, called Guardian Angels if I recall correctly. This mission really drives home the issue of how tedious it is to issue mass identical movement orders to strings of vehicles. This campaign is right at the top of my list of best in the series. Very innovative and memorable. But Guardian Angels stands out for how limited our tools are for dealing with this type of scenario. Effective group path options to quickly and accurately issue orders enmasse would be very welcome indeed.

[chuckdyke]

54 minutes ago, Grey_Fox said:

What happens when you need to move that battalion through dense terrain following a road?

Most scenarios start when you need to deploy your forces. Baranovichi RT starts with 12 trucks at the start of a 3km road. Tactically irresponsible to start driving along the three km road. Before you drive a convoy go ahead with the scouting units. In that case a platoon of light tanks. I would have a convoy with a platoon to drive in each turn which is manageable. 3KM is one of the longer roads easy to manage by just dismounting and just walk. We don't have in the games a RL scenario of say a convoy of 1km in length driving a distance of say 50 km. I already suggested on my wish list a road map and topographic map for the movement of formations to replace Camera position 8-9. Easier said than done. 

 

28 minutes ago, Ultradave said:

When I've played this one I just sat for one turn so there was no setup zone and then start the click fest.

You don't have to do that. Click a HQ double click to select all put it all on pause. And organize your convoy in the set up zone. Just cancel the pause by a single tap on the p-key.

[Grey_Fox]

2 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Most scenarios start when you need to deploy your forces. Baranovichi RT starts with 12 trucks at the start of a 3km road. Tactically irresponsible to start driving along the three km road.

And yet at some point you're going to have to move potentially dozens of units along a road. If you play Cold War, you know that many scenarios are battalion plus in size.

[Erwin]

Also in many scenarios, the roads are twisting.  A real PITA to maneuver a battalion+ of vehicles.

[Codreanu]

10 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Which scenario?

Operation LINNET II, I think it's part of the battle pack for CMBN. You have to move about a battalion of mixed tanks and other vehicles down a road, and then cross them all over a bridge, and then take them down another road through a town, and then cross ANOTHER bridge, and then maneuver them all up a curved forested road at the edge of a cliff. It's almost inevitable that you get at least one vehicle act weird when it's trying to cross one of the two bridges and create the traffic jam from hell that you have to spend 10 minutes sorting through, and since it's such a big assortment of different vehicle types you have to guess on their speeds so the traffic flows properly and doesn't create another traffic jam.

If it's a company of vehicles down a mostly straight road, that's fine, I can handle that no problem, but in extreme circumstances like I've mentioned it just makes you want to close out the scenario and play one that isn't a traffic management simulator.

[Vacillator]

25 minutes ago, Codreanu said:

cross them all over a bridge

An art form all of itself, which sometimes still goes badly wrong (rubber banding and units going down through the bridge come to mind).  I had this with KG Peiper, which at one point delayed my panzers so much that the next attack went in as infantry only.  It all ended well, but could have been better.

This is just meant as a comment by the way, previous threads have dealt with this in some detail so we don't need to re-visit unless people really want to .

[chuckdyke]

5 hours ago, Codreanu said:

I've mentioned it just makes you want to close out the scenario and play one that isn't a traffic management simulator.

Exactly what you should do. I don't have that battle pack. The bridge bug needs to be resolved. The biggest traffic management is Seelow RT and Counterattack at Son BN which are not too bad. A road map just to be able to organize company size travel quickly is something for the next engine. The real bug is pathfinding in the BF games.