dan/california Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 54 minutes ago, Grigb said: My argument is that nothing so far indicates any kind of violent strugle, which would be expected if the RU MOD feels really threatened. When RU MOD defends its turf, many people die. On the other side, what we see is pathetic and pitiful. It's actually rather hillarious (like the chat with Evkurov and Alekseyv). Tough guy (zek) would not argue over Evkurov's allegedly irreconcilable tone (that is not true, Evkurov, like other Highlanders, speaks very quietly and nicely in RU when in an unknown setting). Everything appears to be identical to the VGCHP coup (which was not a true coup) - practically identical rhetoric to save the Motherland, same minimal violence approach, same pathetic and pitiful performance of those involved. Putin has not shown proof of life, I am not believing he is still with us until he proves it, conclusively. If he is still alive I agree with GrigB, this some sort of scripted shoe to enable leadership succession, probably. There just has not been enough blood shed, considering the stakes, and the historical pattern. 1 minute ago, sburke said: wouldn't this be a great time to drop the Kerch bridge... just sayin I am torn. if you nassume Russia will be able to continue the war, then yes Put that bleeping thing in the water. But if there is a real posssibilty that Russia is about to admit defeat my imperfect historical analogy is "never interrupt an enemy when he is making a mistake. 2 minutes ago, Grigb said: Rybar - not important so raw translation I have long had a strong belief that the decision that cost Hosni Mubarak his throne was turning off the internet. People were bored bleepless and decided to join the riots for entertainment, essentially. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Rybar summary Quote Vladimir Putin's address: the main theses The fighters of the Wagner PMCs were called heroes by Putin, but at the same time he said that they were being pushed to treason, betrayal and rebellion. What is happening is a blow to Russia and the Russian people. all those who consciously embarked on the path of betrayal will be inevitably punished to the fullest extent of the law. All law enforcement agencies have received appropriate instructions. "As the President of Russia and the Supreme Commander-in-Chief, as a citizen of Russia, I will do everything to stop the rebellion." Putin never mentioned the names of Prigozhin or Shoigu. He speaks in a streamlined way about those who "organized" everything that is happening. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyCat Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) Fighter-bomber (Ru VKS pilot) Quote About the downed helicopters, little bits [of info] I got The Mi-8mtpr, which was shot down by the PMCs in the morning, flew from the airfield to the destination. The crew is alive. One crew member is injured, he will live. They did not attack anyone with their Mi-8 and they did not have such an order. This is an electronic warfare helicopter. He doesn't have a gun. I'm looking into the downed Mi-35. [UPDATE] In general, regarding helicopters. Two Mi-8mtpr were shot down. Electronic warfare helicopters. A pair flew. The crews are alive. The Mi-35 was also shot down. Whether he worked on the column, I do not know. The crew is alive. Due to the fact that the Wagner column is traveling along the M4 highway mixed with civilian vehicles, helicopters obviously cannot work. The highway is now closed. [Civilian] Cars are being removed. Edited June 24, 2023 by Grigb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, LongLeftFlank said: Alperovitch reads similarly, many thanks. Dang it, he is still alive..... Edit: So civil war then? Edited June 24, 2023 by dan/california 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kluge Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, dan/california said: Edit: So civil war then? Special Mutiny Operation 15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Rybar analysis of Putin speech Quote The Supreme Commander's appeal came out both harsh and strange. Despite the clearly drawn parallels with the First World War and the harshes— nevertheless, Putin declared the need to ensure the integrity of the country and neutralize those who organized the rebellion — there are a lot of subtle points in the message. For example, PMCs are recognized as heroes and patriots of the country who were tricked into mutiny. For some unknown reason, Prigozhin's name is not called. Putin emphasizes that he spoke with the commander of the directions, but not the Minister of Defense and the chief of the General Staff. It seems that at the moment there is a deliberate emphasis on the fact that the Supreme Commander has a dialogue with the commanders on the ground, he appreciates the feat of the PMCs, but at the same time defiantly ignores the participants in the conflict — Prigozhin and Shoigu. Time will tell what this will lead to in the future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Just now, kluge said: Special Mutiny Operation Good one 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter from Prague Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 What a strange thing, I suddenly feel I should take a train to Vladivostok. Is it because I'm Czech? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Claim - Head of the Republic of Crimea Aksenov: "Crimea is with the President!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Claim Voronezh region - column to Moscow 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Mood swinging back - President is with MOD, you lost! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Rybar Quote They write about soldiers of the military police, who were put in a cordon around the National Defense Control Center. A counterterrorist operation protocol has been introduced in Moscow, people from [UKR] sleeping cells of the GUR are being caught, on the outskirts of Moscow blocks are erected in case of the approach of columns of PMCs and other troublemakers. Patrols around the National Defense Control Center were given batons and tasers. Firearms remain in the offices. This is the clear manifestation of panic and confusion, lack of clear instructions for the events that are happening now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pablius Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Is there a chance a tactical nuclear weapon (or many) is stored somewhere in Rostov? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Girkinites starts questioning Putin speech Quote You are the supreme commander, why have you been watching from the sidelines all this time? Why did you pretend that nothing was happening? Why didn't you solve the question when it could have been done before the military mutiny? You are not an backgound actor in this performance, but one of the main characters. But if you think that in the final act you will get a standing ovation and shouts of bravo, then you are mistaken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Grigb said: Mood swinging back - President is with MOD, you lost! Not until Putin finds a bunch more people willing to shoot at Wagner. And evicting them from Rostov by force probably involves losing the war spectacularly. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Is it just me, or do the recent video clips and still photos of Budanov look somewhat altered? @Kinophile, as someone in the business do you have a thought on what might be going on here? I know RUsimps are trying to push the line that he and Zaluzhny were killed or injured in (separate) missile strikes and are being deepfaked to cover it up. But something just looks... off. And it isn't just this one video. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Claim - Acting Governor of the Kherson region Vladimir Saldo: "Kherson region with the President!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 View from RU trenches Quote [Putin] talked, as I thought, the operation to overthrow one of the Kremlin towers with a Tuvan accent [Shoigu] continues!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Claim - there is no interruption in train departure to Rostov 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Claim Wagnerites entered Voronezh region from that Bugaevka border checkpoint. Current destination is unknown 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Rumors Wagnerites are at outskirts of Krasnodar. Regional capital close to Kerch bridge 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FancyCat Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grigb Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Ru soldiers mood Quote Sasha mortarman [just] called. After his recovery, he was supposed to arrive on July 2nd at the headquarters in Rostov. So far he has received a message that he will not move out until further notice. His colleagues from Maryinka convey that they are serving and defending the Motherland as usual. No one hinders them, there is ammunition. There is no excitement, the Wagners are respected and they will never be shot at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kraze Posted June 24, 2023 Share Posted June 24, 2023 Will they start killing each other already ffs 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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