How Hot is Ukraine Gonna Get?

[Ts4EVER]

19 minutes ago, Probus said:

Here ya go @kraze:

*Now with more pictures!  

I bet this has something to do with keeping the gas flowing to his country. Either that or he's just a dirtbag. 

The German government largely exists to cater to the interests of the German industry, especially the car industry and other manufacturers. Note that the only time Angela Merkel actually rolled back Corona measures and even publically apologized for them was when she announced a plan to introduce a temporary bank holiday to keep people out of each other's faces at work for one day longer. Since this infringed on powerful people's profit margins, she had to roll it back. Note that this was after tons of measures that completely screwed over smaller businesses like restaurants and hairdressers...

Pretty sure Scholz got some phone calls from influential capitalists telling him that the Russian gas needs to keep coming to keep production up. And (luckily, I would say, at least to a degree) it seems like the influence of the arms industry is dwarved in comparison.

[DesertFox]

1 hour ago, kraze said:

https://youtu.be/NIItoD1Ebh0

Oh boy.

Other call him a liar and hypocrite. Surely a disgrace for germany.

[Huba]

34 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

It doesn't affect the Leopards at all.

The Leopards are an entirely separate issue, because they're not part of the Bundeswehr stock but are held by the industry.

But Scholz still has a final say if those can be shipped, right? Or is it just a matter of negotiating price and other arrangements with industry? (RM?)

Edited April 20, 2022 by Huba

[Huba]

So is NATO backing down after the ICBM test? 

 

[Der Zeitgeist]

12 minutes ago, Huba said:

But Scholz still has a final say if those can be shipped, right? Or is it just a matter of negotiating price and other arrangements with industry? (KMW?)

Exports will be approved by the ministry of economic affairs, led by Robert Habeck, who is a strong proponent for sending heavy weapons. However, the chancellor has the final say of course. There's some speculation that Scholz made a fundamental decision not to send AFVs to Ukraine (for possible reasons, see what I wrote here: https://community.battlefront.com/topic/140931-how-hot-is-ukraine-gonna-get/?do=findComment&comment=1922904 ), this would explain the convoluted schemes with the Dutch PzH 2000 or Italian AFVs that were also mentioned yesterday. 

 

Edited April 20, 2022 by Der Zeitgeist

[DesertFox]

6 minutes ago, Huba said:

But Scholz still has a final say if those can be shipped, right? Or is it just a matter of negotiating price and other arrangements with industry? (KMW?)

Yes he has final say what is shipped and what not. Same as with the czech BMP-1s and everything else which was either once sold by germany or is produced by german industry. 

[kraze]

13 minutes ago, Ts4EVER said:

The German government largely exists to cater to the interests of the German industry, especially the car industry and other manufacturers. Note that the only time Angela Merkel actually rolled back Corona measures and even publically apologized for them was when she announced a plan to introduce a temporary bank holiday to keep people out of each other's faces at work for one day longer. Since this infringed on powerful people's profit margins, she had to roll it back. Note that this was after tons of measures that completely screwed over smaller businesses like restaurants and hairdressers...

Pretty sure Scholz got some phone calls from influential capitalists telling him that the Russian gas needs to keep coming to keep production up. And (luckily, I would say, at least to a degree) it seems like the influence of the arms industry is dwarved in comparison.

That gas will keep coming regardless. It's the only lifeline for russians. No gas sales = no money. That's why most EU countries don't care and give guns. It's either he is directly involved in gas money and cashes out - or he is too deep into Stasi->FSB connections just like Merkel is.

Edited April 20, 2022 by kraze

[Anon052]

15 minutes ago, Probus said:

Here ya go @kraze:

*Now with more pictures!  

I bet this has something to do with keeping the gas flowing to his country. Either that or he's just a dirtbag. 

Scholz is a disgrace for germany. Not only was he involved in the biggest corruption scandal (CumEX) in the history of the Federal republic of Germany when he was mayor in Hamburg. There was the Wirecard Scandel too where his actions didn't look good. And when he was finance minister there was a corruption scandal in his ministry, he tried to hinder investigations. He has a socialist past und tried to push Nordstream 2. The only politicians that lie more than him are the russians. I detest him. He is corrupt and dishonest.

Even worse: the 100 billion special fund for the Bundeswehr  got postponed and it is not sure if it is even coming.

 

[sross112]

A question for those here from Germany:

What is the level of support for sending weapons and other support to Ukraine amongst the German citizens? Overwhelmingly positive, positive, neutral, negative, overwhelmingly negative? 

[DesertFox]

1 minute ago, sross112 said:

A question for those here from Germany:

What is the level of support for sending weapons and other support to Ukraine amongst the German citizens? Overwhelmingly positive, positive, neutral, negative, overwhelmingly negative? 

All people I know overwhelmingly support sending all gear possible to ukraine and are disgusted by the government blocking the Marders and Leo1s which are ready to be shipped by Rheinmetall.

[Der Zeitgeist]

6 minutes ago, sross112 said:

A question for those here from Germany:

What is the level of support for sending weapons and other support to Ukraine amongst the German citizens? Overwhelmingly positive, positive, neutral, negative, overwhelmingly negative? 

Positive (the question below specifically mentions heavy weapons), with some interesting differences along party lines.

Edited April 20, 2022 by Der Zeitgeist

[Der Zeitgeist]

Just to add some personal observations about the opinions in Germany:

The thing I find most interesting is that the especially young generation of the eco-green electorate seems to be turning into veritable Russia-hawks with the war in Ukraine (also see the survey result I posted above). Considering the history of the Green party, that's a pretty fascinating development and very different from how the Green party almost tore itself apart about the Kosovo war and the German military involvement in Afghanistan in 2001.

[sross112]

I figured the majority of the people would support helping Ukraine just like almost every other western country but I had to ask.

So the people are in favor of support and more than that over 2/3 of the members of his political parties favor it. So the decision isn't motivated by populist pandering or political pressure. That rules out the obvious motives of a politician so it looks like Putin or his buddies own him. He does have Marxist roots back to the 70's so there is no telling what they would have on him or he is just greedy and in their pocket. Either way Germany should probably look for a new leader without ties to Russia.

[Ts4EVER]

That's because the Greens aren't much of a leftist party anymore, they are a party for wealthy urban people who probably wouldn't end up in the firing line....

[billbindc]

29 minutes ago, Huba said:

So is NATO backing down after the ICBM test? 

 

No. This was a long planned test and despite the Kremlin's limp sabre rattling, they informed the US well ahead.

[Der Zeitgeist]

9 minutes ago, sross112 said:

Either way Germany should probably look for a new leader without ties to Russia.

lol

Yeah, good luck with that.

(finding one, I mean)

Edited April 20, 2022 by Der Zeitgeist

[BeondTheGrave]

26 minutes ago, Huba said:

So is NATO backing down after the ICBM test? 

I suspect this was an issue of semantics, a misleading statement rather than a shift in policy. The aircraft correction came from a daily Pentagon briefing. The tone from other tweets I've seen suggests this is less of a walk-back than a clarification that something had been taken out of context. My own reading. 

5 minutes ago, Ts4EVER said:

That's because the Greens aren't much of a leftist party anymore,

This is my own (admittedly limited) view of the Greens. Several younger millennial Germans I know moved over from SPD/FDP to the Greens because they, in effect, had transitioned into single issue votes (focused on Climate/Green policy). These werent ex-Die Linke voters or people regularly attending Klimastreik rallies on campus either. Mostly 30-something yuppies. One of them was a from-home day trader. Not exactly the radical activist type. I've often wondered how this true coalition of voters for the Greens plays out in different issues. Here I think we see a really interesting point of overlap. Would be interested to see where other parties, like Die Linke, fit onto that above polling spectrum. 

[Ts4EVER]

2 minutes ago, BeondTheGrave said:

 Would be interested to see where other parties, like Die Linke, fit onto that above polling spectrum. 

Well Die Linke is dead, which is a shame, because for a while they were the only alternative to neoliberal bs.

[Der Zeitgeist]

4 minutes ago, Ts4EVER said:

Well Die Linke is dead, which is a shame, because for a while they were the only alternative to neoliberal bs.

What a strange and unexpected opinion to read on a forum for a military-themed video game. 

[holoween]

17 minutes ago, Ts4EVER said:

That's because the Greens aren't much of a leftist party anymore, they are a party for wealthy urban people who probably wouldn't end up in the firing line....

Id say they are simply the most realist party around. Yes they have their ideology but when it matters they are willing to diverge and be prgagmatic.

[Battlefront.com]

52 minutes ago, Ts4EVER said:

Pretty sure Scholz got some phone calls from influential capitalists telling him that the Russian gas needs to keep coming to keep production up. And (luckily, I would say, at least to a degree) it seems like the influence of the arms industry is dwarved in comparison.

This is my primary thinking.  That would be pretty powerful any day on the German calendar, but especially when there's elections coming up.  Elections are much harder to win when people are laid off from work or have to spend 4x more for energy.

Steve

[Ts4EVER]

1 minute ago, holoween said:

Id say they are simply the most realist party around. Yes they have their ideology but when it matters they are willing to diverge and be prgagmatic.

They are not realist at all. Any realistic appraisal of the situation would probably come to the conclusion that the ecological crisis can not be solved within capitalism. But that doesn't really belong in this thread.

[Haiduk]

Azov and marines breakthrough from Azovstal to the port and secured passing of UKR units (500 servicemen mostly of police and border guards) to their positions on the plant. Port group was cutted off and almost w/o ammunition

Article in Russian:

https://inforesist.org/smi-morpehi-i-azov-spasli-poltysyachi-bojczov-gpsu-i-naczpoliczii-iz-porta-mariupolya/

In Mariupol spotted vehicles with V marking, which participated in offensive on Kyiv

Edited April 20, 2022 by Haiduk

[dan/california]

5 minutes ago, Haiduk said:

Azov and marines breakthrough from Azovstal to the port and secured passing of UKR units (500 servicemen mostly of police and border guards) to their positions on the plant. Port group was cutted off and almost w/o ammunition

Article in Russian:

https://inforesist.org/smi-morpehi-i-azov-spasli-poltysyachi-bojczov-gpsu-i-naczpoliczii-iz-porta-mariupolya/

In Mariupol spotted vehicles with V marking, which participated in offensive on Kyiv

As strong a stand as any history, literally! It deserves to be a whole chapter in the books a 1000 years from now.

[Battlefront.com]

Looks like Russia is getting ready for the big May 9th parade.  Either that or it's sending the parade forces into battle:

Earlier there was some discussion about this particular Twitter account and how it is not the real Igor Girkin.  I'm pretty sure this was set up for information warfare in 2014.  Girkin's name was certainly something people would search for.  If they searched they would find this Twitter account and think "I have found the guy!" and then they would be obligated to see truth instead of his lies.  Notice that the account still has a great video showing the lie that separatists were getting everything from captured Ukrainian Army.  It's a good video to watch even if you already know what it shows.

Steve