Aragorn2002 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Benjamin Ritchie-Hook said: They deserved it. That's what they said about the jews. The difference between good and bad people should be more visible. Edited August 13, 2021 by Aragorn2002 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centurian52 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, Benjamin Ritchie-Hook said: They deserved it. Civilians never deserve it. The deliberate bombing of civilians was a serious atrocity committed by the Allies during WW2 (not just German civilians, but Japanese civilians as well (and I don't just mean the nukes)). I don't want to create a false equivalency mind you, what the Germans and Japanese did during the war was far worse than anything the Americans or British did (I'll not be accused of defending the Nazis). And the Germans were no less willing to bomb civilians when they had the chance. But just because someone else did something worse does not mean the terrible things we did don't matter. Also worth noting that while the deliberate bombing of civilians is always horrific, when Allied strategic bombing (and I do make a distinction between strategic bombing and terror bombing) was directed against industrial targets the impact on the war was decisive. Edited August 13, 2021 by Centurian52 grammar 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sid_burn Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, Benjamin Ritchie-Hook said: They deserved it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 We're either on the edge or close to it, folks. Probably time to throttle back or walk away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, BFCElvis said: We're either on the edge or close to it, folks. Probably time to throttle back or walk away. I will. But I strongly suggest reading what Peter Hitchen has to say on this subject in his book The Phoney Victory, partly based upon the standard work on the bombing war by Richard Overy. Very balanced and informative. I will say no more. Edited August 13, 2021 by Aragorn2002 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danfrodo Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 well, that went pretty badly pretty quickly I thought this was fun speculation thread 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 3 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said: suggest reading what Peter Hitchen has to say on this subject in his book The Phoney Victory, partly based upon the standard work on the bombing war by Richard Overy. Very balanced and informative. How about this. Will read your book if you read "Bloodlands": https://www.timothysnyder.org/books/bloodlands The other question to bear in mind is "How many loved ones did you lose in the war?" It's too easy to make academic statements when one was never personally affected by war. For example: My dad (a Ukrainian raised in Poland) lost his entire family... yes everyone... either to Stalin or Hitler. You may want to bear in mind that sort of person's reaction to your ideas. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Erwin said: How about this. Will read your book if you read "Bloodlands": https://www.timothysnyder.org/books/bloodlands The other question to bear in mind is "How many loved ones did you lose in the war?" It's too easy to make academic statements when one was never personally affected by war. For example: My dad (a Ukrainian raised in Poland) lost his entire family... yes everyone... either to Stalin or Hitler. You may want to bear in mind that sort of person's reaction to your ideas. Deal. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 Am ordering on Amazon now... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 11 minutes ago, Erwin said: Am ordering on Amazon now... Pm me when you've finished reading, if you like. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantSqook Posted August 13, 2021 Share Posted August 13, 2021 7 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said: I will. But I strongly suggest reading what Peter Hitchen has to say on this subject in his book The Phoney Victory, partly based upon the standard work on the bombing war by Richard Overy. Very balanced and informative. I will say no more. Have you ever considered reading a book that wasn't written by a contrarian journalist out to prove a point? Why not read Richard Overys book given that it's infinitely more related to the subject and written by an actual historian with a long history of writing well-respected books on the topic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) 4 hours ago, SergeantSqook said: Have you ever considered reading a book that wasn't written by a contrarian journalist out to prove a point? Why not read Richard Overys book given that it's infinitely more related to the subject and written by an actual historian with a long history of writing well-respected books on the topic. I've read Overy, Bloodlands and practically every book on ww1, ww2, the Holocaust and other attrocities you can think of. Hitchen btw often quotes Overy in his book and uses the best and most respected sources. He doesn't make excuses for any German war crime or attrocity. He just paints the whole picture. Apart from that not all his conclusions are according to mine, but who cares. It's well researched and well written. Just one of many new books, with new insights. Have you ever considered reading a book that doesn't repeat the same old story or the same old lies? Stalin's secret agents by Stanton Evans or Among the Dead Cities by Grayling for example. Or The Road less Traveled by Zelikow, Stalin's War by McMeekin, The Web of Disinformation by Martin, The Venona Secrets by Romerstein, Operation Snow by Pavlov and so many other 'revisionist' books? Or books about the ethnic cleansing of all Germans in East Prussia, Pommerania, Silesia etc etc. The Germans paid for their crimes and it's high time we leave 'They deserved it' behind us and start to think as civilised people again. I've already broken my promise to say no more, so anyone who has something to say AND wants an answer can PM me. But we both know it will be pretty useless. Edited August 14, 2021 by Aragorn2002 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 Soldiers of misfortune by Saunders. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantSqook Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 5 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said: It's well researched and well written. Certainly doesn't seem it based on the wild and wacky things you keep pulling based off of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 18 minutes ago, SergeantSqook said: Certainly doesn't seem it based on the wild and wacky things you keep pulling based off of it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantSqook Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 5 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: That winky face could have saved Singapore 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 6 hours ago, Aragorn2002 said: Stalin's secret agents by Stanton Evans or Among the Dead Cities by Grayling for example. Or The Road less Traveled by Zelikow, Stalin's War by McMeekin, The Web of Disinformation by Martin, The Venona Secrets by Romerstein, Operation Snow by Pavlov and so many other 'revisionist' books? This list sounds like medical diagnosis. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xorg_Xalargsky Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, SergeantSqook said: Have you ever considered reading a book that wasn't written by a contrarian journalist out to prove a point? Why not read Richard Overys book given that it's infinitely more related to the subject and written by an actual historian with a long history of writing well-respected books on the topic. What's so bad about Journalists writing about history? They're professionals dedicated to their field, one that values truth-seeking and presenting the public with accurate and well-sourced information. Failing to do those things would result in professional consequences and widespread mockery. At that point, the main difference between the two is the title on their diploma. Edited August 14, 2021 by Xorg_Xalargsky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, dbsapp said: This list sounds like medical diagnosis. To an individual who thinks God could be on the side of the NKWD and who believes the words of Molotov, the Soviet equivelant of Ribbentrop, about occupying other countries, yes. All these books are well recieved by reviewers from normal newspapers and magazines, available in normal book stores (although not in Russia probably) and respectable, so say what you like. It will help me to make your medical AND political diagnosis. Edited August 14, 2021 by Aragorn2002 Thread will be closed soon, so better to make my last stand for truth's sake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMS Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 12 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: God could be on the side of the NKWD NKVD were atheists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, SergeantSqook said: That winky face could have saved Singapore Read a book about the suffering of the tens of thousands of British, Indian and Australian soldiers AND thousands of British women and children that followed the fall of Singapore and that remark will seem even less funny. Edited August 14, 2021 by Aragorn2002 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, DMS said: NKVD were atheists. Quite so. But God made strange decisions before. Edited August 14, 2021 by Aragorn2002 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 13 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: To an individual who thinks God could be on the side of the NKWD and who believes the words of Molotov, the Soviet equivelant of Ribbentrop, about occupying other countries, yes. All these books are well recieved by reviewers from normal newspapers and magazines, available in normal book stores (although not in Russia probably) and respectable, so say what you like. It will help me to make your medical AND political diagnosis. Nothing is permitted to enter through iron curtain except books about God giving blessings to NKVD. Those who dare to smuggle literature on sufferings in Singapore end their days in GULAG. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aragorn2002 Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 (edited) 1 minute ago, dbsapp said: Nothing is permitted to enter through iron curtain except books about God giving blessings to NKVD. Those who dare to smuggle literature on sufferings in Singapore end their days in GULAG. Better, but still not funny. Unless you think the GULAG concentration camps were a joke. Edited August 14, 2021 by Aragorn2002 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SergeantSqook Posted August 14, 2021 Share Posted August 14, 2021 29 minutes ago, Aragorn2002 said: Read a book about the suffering of the tens of thousands of British, Indian and Australian soldiers AND thousands of British women and children that followed the fall of Singapore and that remark will seem even less funny. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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