Tips for players CMx2 <--> Graviteam

[markshot]

Is there is an official engine 5 thread from BFC or is this a player wish item?  If official, then please throw in the link here.

I know what you mean about content.  I don't buy new titles anymore.  I have more quality games I own than time, and I am 10 years your junior.  So, I don't really seek learning curves, but mastery and play.

Thanks.

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, markshot said:

player wish item? 

It is a player wish item. The goal should be as close to RL as possible and still keep it as fun. Try playing with only Camera 1 and Camera 9, it quickly becomes frustrating. 

[Simcoe]

13 hours ago, markshot said:

 

Chuck,

Have you checked out Panther Games (an Australian Company)?  The first title in the series RDOA (Red Devils Over Arnhem) began here, BTS.  I joined as a beta/team member.

We then moved to Matrix (before the sale to Slitherine), and did HTTR, COTA, and BFTB.

HTTR - Highway to the Reich

COTA - Conquest of the Agean

BFTB - Battles from the Bulge

These titles are no longer available.  Maybe on Ebay.  I believe old CD/DVDs installers should work as we did not use Window drivers, but simply serial number.  But you would need an optical drive (less common today) ... also I am not sure where you can get patches.  I probably have the official Matrix patches if you ask.

After the demise of Matrix; former owner David Heath began LnL Publishing.  Lock and load publishing and we moved there.  The current offering is CO2 (Command Ops 2) available on Steam.  The basic engine and a few scenarios are free.  The above and more are available as DLC scenario packs.

It is not 3D, but counters and pseudo topographical and terrain texture map.  Not unlike GG's WITW/WITE-2 but without the hexes.  Continuous movement and continuous (pausable; and you can give orders) time.

It is the most scalable war game in existence.  Both CM and MIUS have a natural scale.  Go outside of that and play becomes awkward.

For Panther, command and map is represented like an OOB.  Really three OOBs.  You have organic, dynamic, and transitional.  You are the senior commander on map.  You generally command those would would logically be your subordinates; although you can micromanage specific units.  So, you strike your balance between broad strokes and micro.  All AI HQs behave as intelligent agents.  That is why it scales so well.

Further, the game is very much based on the OODA loop.  No games implements time and delays better.  Battle is continuous:

* Normally an attack will reach the objective, exploit, and secure.  But if the enemy is on the run, you may want to issue new orders to not permit them the time to withdraw and dig in at the next blocking position.  So, much of the game is to discern when, it is time to change the plan.  To change orders in the middle of an attack can be the biggest disaster you will ever make as advance begins to fall apart as some get the command and others don't leaving flanks exposed.

* Suppose ... You have 3 battalions.  Do you order each into independent uncoordinated attacks?  Faster.  Or do you order the brigade or division, coordinated but taking much longer to kick off.  So, you can have action in 4 hours or better action in 10 hours.  What do you do?

* Night/day considerations are very important.  Grab the enemy by the shirt at sunrise if you are facing heavy arty.

* The famous OODA loop is at the very core level of the game model.

Except for the lack of 3D, I think this game might be very suited to you.

With each title we added features ... better tools, mixed mode movement, supply lines ...  But I think even RDOA holds up well today.

Now, with regards to the latest offering:

* The big change has been pre-CO2 all games was fixed screen layout of child windows.  CO2 introduce floating non-child windows.  If you only have a single display, you may find the earlier titles cleaner.  But if you have 2 or more displays, CO2 gives you better SA.  In fact, if you have 4 displays, you have the War Room.

* Unlike BFC we didn't do engine upgrades for earlier titles, but as the business model changed and the engine is free ... all the DLC representing former content is upgraded to the latest features.  I do believe to some extent the scenarios have been reworked.  So, if you loved HTTR, but supply was way too simplistic.  Well, now it is is not anymore.

Scenarios range by two orders of magnitude in unit count with no great curve in player complexity, because AI agents.  Time ranges from 1-30 days.  Roughly.  Game performance is relative to unit count.  Don't assume unit count increases per title ... I once did an analysis of this.  Also, all titles offer variable size scenarios.  The engine offers difficulty parameters in the form of:  order delays from instant action to realistic chain of command delay, historical reserves to non-historic, historic weather or better or worse, and supply historic or better or worse.  Victory is based on point based flag system with VLs scoring for time and/or at end, and they may only be active for part of the scenario.  Some scenarios too much give you a plan by sequencing VLs, and others are more wide open letting you decide how to get the job done.

 

Chuck, I hope that helps ... if you or willing to forgo 3D.

Do you have any recommendations for a game where you play a regiment or division commander for someone that is new to the genre?

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Simcoe said:

Do you have any recommendations for a game where you play a regiment or division commander for someone that is new to the genre?

Check out Command Ops on Steam. There are some freebies.

[Simcoe]

20 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Check out Command Ops on Steam. There are some freebies.

Looks good. Thank you for the recommendation.

[Anxel Torrente]

For those of you that wanted to play this game and haven't bought it yet, it is now on sale with the different DLCs. A good series of YouTube videos about the beginning of the war is the one about the push towards Leningrad. The DLC is called Raging Bridgehead

[Thewood1]

A thread from a while ago with opinions on Graviteam games.

 

[chuckdyke]

It was pointed out to fix a thrown track would take a lot longer than two hours. But if you like to play 1943 go to Graviteam this period is not covered by CM. I won't be commenting on Graviteam on a BF forum any longer. I own most CM games and it will keep me busy for some time to come. 

[Blazing 88's]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

...I won't be commenting on Graviteam on a BF forum any longer.

I'll comment... I think they all suck.

Edited August 15, 2022 by Blazing 88's

[Thewood1]

And thats why the link I posted was in the general information forum.  Where this one should have been also.

[Artkin]

If I can't get personal with my pixeltruppen then I'm not into it 

 

Though command ops 2 looks pretty sick

Edited August 15, 2022 by Artkin

[BornGinger]

It seems that some people judge this game as "useless" or similar and give up trying to figure out how to play it successfully when the only reason to why it doesn't work for them is that they're too lazy to even try enough. 

It's just like someone who says a book is bad or stupid only because they haven't given themselves the time enough to learn how to read before they expected the book to contain easily understandable pictures.

[chuckdyke]

5 minutes ago, BornGinger said:

It's just like someone who says a book is bad or stupid

Superman comics have nicer pictures than the collected works of Charles Dickins. One is literature, its richness beyond comprehension of year 2. The dealbreaker for people is an animation of a guy with a spanner. In CM it just says immobilized which is sufficient. I just broke my resolution but resolutions are made to be broken. I am happy to give tips. I don't lose against the AI playing on Iron, so we must do something right. 

Edited August 16, 2022 by chuckdyke

[Bulletpoint]

Both are good wargames, in my opinion. Each has something the other hasn't.

Graviteam has a bigger scale, better tank damage simulation, an operational level, more modern graphics, and receives frequent patches. Plus modelled wire-laying and limits to micromanagement and gaming the system. And there's actually an AI that lets the computer attack you in a semi-intelligent way.

Combat Mission has considerably better small-scale unit action, better urban (and bocage) combat, a better interface, multiplayer, and WeGo.