Sandbags ruining concealment

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Artkin said:

Theyre wayyyyyy too easy to spot. Why even have them?

In RT Gog and Magog triggered this conversation. I replayed it and nothing was visible (Iron Difficulty) the AI spoiled it by firing the 76.2 Soviet field guns at King Tigers at 1 KM. The only thing which players shouldn't do is disabling trees as this gives away the position of fortifications but not sandbags. 

[FlemFire]

IMO, sandbags and similar static defenses should be even easier to spot ...

[chuckdyke]

17 minutes ago, Khalerick said:

IMO, sandbags and similar static defenses should be even easier to spot ...

It is too generic, with foxholes you can position an ATG in them, which is fair but there is no option for a 2-man listening post in the game. Scouts can hide but no protection against a barrage like a foxhole for one man. 

[Artkin]

Uhhhh do you think these guys leave huge mounds of dirt for the enemy to instantly spot? .... Yeah no...

Foxholes would be camoflaged. Trenches camoflaged. Sandbags would not be totally shiny and pristine for enemy troops to see 1200 yards away....... In CMBS troops spot everything pretty much instantly.

This has got to be an engine limitation atm.

[Artkin]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

In RT Gog and Magog triggered this conversation. I replayed it and nothing was visible (Iron Difficulty) the AI spoiled it by firing the 76.2 Soviet field guns at King Tigers at 1 KM. The only thing which players shouldn't do is disabling trees as this gives away the position of fortifications but not sandbags. 

can you elaborate on the last sentence plz

[chuckdyke]

15 minutes ago, Artkin said:

can you elaborate on the last sentence plz

Alt+T Takes away the foliage, exposes the foxholes, and trenches underneath shrub, trees etc. During the game not at the beginning. Often it exposes the dents in the terrain where he puts bunkers trenches, among others. 

[chuckdyke]

@Artkin Note my screen shots are not the greatest. Sniper position since he has binoculars, I observe or spot at 8X magnification. Here is what he sees before and after Alt+T

[Artkin]

Yeah I know about that command. I wasnt sure if some fortifications were shown through fog of war automatically or something. 

It gives away the position of the fortifications? Like trenches? Perhaps this is CMSF specific since they have special trenches?

[chuckdyke]

2 minutes ago, Artkin said:

It gives away the position of the fortifications? Like trenches? Perhaps this is CMSF specific since they have special trenches?

It is because we play a game and CM falls still a little short of being a simulator. Sometimes the scenario designer is a little sloppy and you can see telltale dents all over the AO. In my case the sniper I need to simulate the binoculars to X8 it would be nice if there was a POV for binoculars or sniperscopes. Assume he spots the trench his Command-and-Control network at best should get a question mark. 

[Erwin]

Just to clarify, Alt-T doesn't "give away" anything, it simply removes the trees so that it's easier to see oddities in the ground like trenches etc.  In dense woods it's almost impossible to play with trees on.  Usually one has to remove the trees or show just the trunks.  There are some good mods that make trees that are closer semi-transparent and those further away full on.

[chuckdyke]

9 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Alt-T doesn't "give away" anything,

Please look at my screenshots. The trench behind the trees becomes visible. Or do you suggest I am faking it?

[Bulletpoint]

11 hours ago, Artkin said:

Uhhhh do you think these guys leave huge mounds of dirt for the enemy to instantly spot? .... Yeah no...

Foxholes would be camoflaged. Trenches camoflaged. Sandbags would not be totally shiny and pristine for enemy troops to see 1200 yards away....... In CMBS troops spot everything pretty much instantly.

This has got to be an engine limitation atm.

Not an engine limitation. Somebody just typed in a number for the concealment value of sandbags that we disagree about.

I also think they and other fortifications should be more difficult to spot, and also more difficult to deal with. Not impossible, of course. But more difficult.

[Artkin]

1 hour ago, chuckdyke said:

Please look at my screenshots. The trench behind the trees becomes visible. Or do you suggest I am faking it?

I actually didnt see this trench either. And how was he suggesting that you were faking it? (He wasnt.) Your ambiguous replies confuse the **** out of us, but we try to cope...... 

 

ALSO I am looking at the screenshot in the sun right now so its pretty hard to see.... I think you can see the trench either way. Alt-T or not. Confirming what @Erwin was saying.

Edited April 20, 2021 by Artkin

[Artkin]

1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said:

Not an engine limitation. Somebody just typed in a number for the concealment value of sandbags that we disagree about.

I also think they and other fortifications should be more difficult to spot, and also more difficult to deal with. Not impossible, of course. But more difficult.

Well thats good news. 

[Erwin]

6 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Please look at my screenshots. The trench behind the trees becomes visible. Or do you suggest I am faking it?

To clarify:  When you look vertically down from camera position 6 (and use "X" to zoom in), are you saying that when you have trees turned on there is no trench at all?  But as soon as you turn off trees, a trench suddenly appears where there was definitely no trench before?

[akd]

6 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

Please look at my screenshots. The trench behind the trees becomes visible. Or do you suggest I am faking it?

Once spotted trenches are always visible, it doesn’t matter what unit you have selected.  That does not necessarily mean the selected AI unit “sees” the trench / foxholes.  Not even sure the AI does anything with spotted trenches / foxholes.  It is pretty much just information for the player. Think of it as terrain that can be revealed.  Bunkers are different, basically working as static vehicles.

Edited April 20, 2021 by akd

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

But as soon as you turn off trees, a trench suddenly appears where there was definitely no trench before?

You play the game differently than I play it. I just ignore what I am not supposed to see in my opinion. Dents of fortifications also become more obvious when you disable foliage but that has to do with the editor. 

[Ultradave]

On 4/20/2021 at 10:00 AM, chuckdyke said:

Please look at my screenshots. The trench behind the trees becomes visible. Or do you suggest I am faking it?

No. No one suggested that. I can just see that it's there with the trees on. On or off, that trench is "visible."  It appears to be in the open beyond a line of trees that are next to the road. You can just see the bottom of the sandbags next to the edge of the building. Perhaps that indicates intel already received, or possibly another unit with eyes on it (obviously can't tell that since all we can see is your sniper eye view).

 

Edited April 21, 2021 by Ultradave

[chuckdyke]

7 hours ago, Ultradave said:

Perhaps that indicates intel already received, or possibly another unit with eyes on it (obviously can't tell that since all we can see is your sniper eye view).

It is the game. USMC Insertion and Interdiction SF2 for example. The trench system becomes visible little by little. Before you already see the 'Editor's Dent' in the ground. What we wish for in the game is maybe just not possible. Could be for a next engine. I like to see road maps and topographic maps replacing camera positions 5-9 purpose just for plotting movements. I place foxholes and trenches where there is some natural camouflage. I accept spotting but by whom? Enemy unit once spotted you high light and the spotter is identified. Wish the same applies for fortifications. I should be less fussy if my sniper could call for a strike, I just should let him do it. Kind regards and happy gaming. 

[chuckdyke]

A good URL think it is a tremendous aid for scenario map makers. Select any area zoom with your mouse wheel and the maps becomes topographic, however numbers are small.

OpenTopoMap - Topographische Karten aus OpenStreetMap

[JM Stuff]

42 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

A good URL think it is a tremendous aid for scenario map makers. Select any area zoom with your mouse wheel and the maps becomes topographic, however numbers are small.

OpenTopoMap - Topographische Karten aus OpenStreetMap

Woahhw do you think we can drawing some scenarios to import in CM editor !

[chuckdyke]

30 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

Woahhw do you think we can drawing some scenarios to import in CM editor !

Yes, I am working on a place called Nansum. Province of Groningen the Netherlands. It was in the AO of the Canadian army 1945. The city of Delfzijl was the objective as it was the link to the German port of Emden. The defender is German Navy Personnel and around Nansum are pillboxes fortifications and pillboxes. In combination with the link to this map we can make a situational map. MilitaryMap - Plan your Mission  Having a good FOW is essential for the German defender. I don't want to make a shooting gallery. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by chuckdyke

[JM Stuff]

1 minute ago, chuckdyke said:

Yes, I am working on a place called Nansum. Province of Groningen the Netherlands. It was in the AO of the Canadian army 1945. The city of Delfzijl was the objective as it was the link to the German port of Emden. The defender is German Navy Personnel and around Nansum are pillboxes fortifications and pillboxes. In combination with the link to this map we can make a situational map. MilitaryMap - Plan your Mission 

This is really very informative and the possibilities are enormous, I just watched the video quickly, and I am convinced that we will be able to do very beautiful things, but also very precise on the scale the system of layers are I think very useful, if only CM could introduce some layers in the game we can than prepare some movements...

Very interresting I remain attentive to your progress in this area thank you to share it ...

[chuckdyke]

3 minutes ago, JM Stuff said:

if only CM could introduce some layers in the game we can than prepare some movements...

Yes, I like to click battalion HQ whether they are on the map or not and you will see a Situational Map in which Command and Control network are updated. It can replace camera position 9. The Company and Platoon HQ could have road maps replacing camera positions 5-8.  

[JM Stuff]

16 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

Yes, I like to click battalion HQ whether they are on the map or not and you will see a Situational Map in which Command and Control network are updated. It can replace camera position 9. The Company and Platoon HQ could have road maps replacing camera positions 5-8.  

Pray that BFC is around, read and  and listen yours comments, to introduce in the famous CM3 this will be really welcome  

with this kind of layers we can perhaps play or minimum have a view of 2 scales Hqs hight scale and subordonates units...

Edited April 22, 2021 by JM Stuff