Lt Bull Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 ...when it gets delivered because I will probably be departing for my European backpacking holiday (14th June) probably the day before it is delivered to my door. I will return home in a few months to find the package unopened and probably no one to play blind PBEMs with. Talk about bad timing. It also seems that my role in the CMMC may have to be handed over to someone else (hopefully not entirely) while I am away (I have no return date planned as yet). I am looking at visiting many of the historical WW2 sites while I'm there (Arnhem, D-Day beaches, Ardennes, others) but I am currently unaware of any specific tours that may be available once I get there. Can anyone recommend me any good historical WW2 tours on which they have been on in Europe? BTW...if there is anyone nice enough over there who wouldn't mind showing me CM let me know (I could be in the neighbourhood). It may help me with the withdrawl symptoms. Lt. Bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Whoa thats interesting, I'm planning a France vacation later this year. My wife wants to go to Paris, but you all know why I agreed to go..( hehe hiking through the bocage playing army man, I hope to make it to Bastogne!) I would love to her from the assembled sages, WHAT'S the best way to see european theatre battlefields? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperTed Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 "I will return home in a few months to find the package unopened and probably no one to play blind PBEMs with. Talk about bad timing." Hey Lt. Bull, You name the scenario and I'll set it aside to play you (blind PBEM, that is). SuperTed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Lt. Bull, take pictures man! Take lots! In today's world just about everybody has access to a scanner but if you don't I'll even scan the pictures off for you and return them promptly in excellent condition. I can't wait to go to Europe and see the sights. I wouldn't mind seeing the Normandy area but I'd stay out of most of France. Me and the frogs don't see eye to eye. I'd love to see England, Holland and Germany though. -Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 When I was in college me and some buddies went to Europe. We leased a car for 3 weeks of it. A Renault Clio. It was great because we never saw a tour guide or had an itinerary or schedule...just roamed around in a giant clockwise circle around Europe seeing all the great places. We put 3000 miles on that car in 21 days. We more or less on accident ended up at the crossroads of Malmedy. It was eerie to stand on that ground...no one could say a word the whole time. And these were guys who didn't know anything about ww2 history. Something about that place just grabs you. We passed over some bridges in the high hills of Belgium where I almost expected to see some US combat engineers and maybe a 57mm AT gun dug in around the corner. CM maps of those areas are going to be amazingly steep sided hills and very deep flat-bottomed valleys. Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TargetDrone Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Well, Lt. Bull, if you hit Austria by accident, sure thing you can drop in for a visit, and have some playing with CM.... Can't let you suffer these withdrawl symptoms too much, they are really ugly... so.. if you hit austria, simply get to a telefon cell, and call 0699 10083367 (my celular) and we will see how we best meet....(although im in italy last 2 july weeks and first august week) Hope that helps... -- targetdrone I don't like attention... especially from guys with guns.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wesreidau Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Lt Bull, if you hit the North Of England then you are welcome to stay here buddy. CM city! email mst007@bigfoot.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHANGEL Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *Captain Foobar*: Whoa thats interesting, I'm planning a France vacation later this year. My wife wants to go to Paris, but you all know why I agreed to go..( hehe hiking through the bocage playing army man, I hope to make it to Bastogne!) I would love to her from the assembled sages, WHAT'S the best way to see european theatre battlefields?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> FOO, I went to school (for a while) in Eurpoe as well as being stationed there after I got back from RVN. As a schoolboy we were taken to several battlefields. As an adult and soldier, I went to most of them as part of my "continuing military education" I did "terrain walks"(remember, the Cold War was afoot then and we were expecting to fight the Reds over the same terrain.) Anyway, what I did was get the WEST POINT ATLAS OF AMERICAN WARS, which was in two volumes at that time but is in several now I believe. I made some copies of the maps but took the books in the car with me. I started in Normandy and just went where I could when I could during my tour in USAEUR. I managed to go as far as Sicily. I also took in acient battlefields and the battlefields of the First World War...I understand that now there are musuems at many more places than there were in 1974. I would make a check on Amazon, I seem to recall a GUIDE TO EUROPEAN BATTLEFIELDS for sale there. If your time is limited and you are brining a family, I would suggest Normandy (Omaha Beach particulary) and the German defenses in what is Eastern France are (or were ) still there, IF you think VOT is tough, I saw valleys where EVERY pillbox was mutually supporting of every other one, and fields of fire that were a gunners dream. The difference is, today they are caved in, but you can still tell how serious a busines it was. After Normandy is the Bocage. Another place that will give you nightmares. If you can, move East.. go to Holland, Hell's Highway from SON to Arnhem, if memory serves, there is a wonderful Airborne oriented museum at Nijmagen (sp) and the Dutch are wonderful people. Bastogne goes without saying...being an airborne vet and having met lots of the 82/101 vets at re-unions, it was especially gratifying to cover all thier tracks. I was lucky to run into American airborne vets at each place I went also...it was like divine intervention...one guy I met in St-Mere-Eglise took me thru the whole fight as he had been a part of it as a Corp. in the 505th, including he cellar doorway where he was when he got hit by a round from an MG42. He was back in time to jump into Holland tho...anyway...those are my personal suggestions...I hope you enjoy your trip... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 We have some interesting museums here in Holland. The warmuseum in Overloon,The Stoottroepen museum(my former unit)A museum in Den Haag and so on. If you visit Holland I will gladly help you. Just call 035-6022675. The place to be in Europe is the tankmuseum at Bovington ,England. Lots of tanks and other vehicles. If you want to see a real kingtiger visit the Kampftruppeschule from the German Army in Munster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelU Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 One great thing about living in London is proximity to the European battlefields. I've been to Arnhem and the airborne museum (General Urquhart commanded the Brit first para division, but I don't think we're related). Normandy was great, I cycled round there, first to the beaches (Omaha in particular) and then following the route of the Cobra breakout. You have to cycle it to appreciate how hilly it is around St Lo. In England there is the Bovington tank museum, the Imperial War Museum in London and the Leeds Royal Armouries. I've got all these cool pictures but unfortunately no scanner. Busy reading a World War I book called The Pity of War and playing Paths of Glory boardgame, so next is the World War I battlefields. Lt Bull, send me an email if you're coming to London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Along the same lines....I will be in Italy from 18 June to 28 June. If anyone on this board lives in Italy could you please email me. I would love to discuss "must see places". My wife and I are planning to do the same type of trip we took to France...ie. .Rent a car and drive with no set place to stay or visit. P.S. I would assume I have played some CM before I go. ------------------ "Trying to be so bad is bad enough. Don't make me laugh by talking tough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaffertape Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Lt Bull, by the time you return there will likely be a decent collection of user-made scenarios which you could blind PBEM. I've been to Dunkirk and Vimy Ridge (WW1), but I've always wanted to tour the 'bulge' region. I understand they have some excellent museums and memorials. - GAFF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikester Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Lt. Bull, I'm crying in my soup for you. I did run across a website not more than a week ago run by a couple of veterans that do several tours in Western Europe of WWII battlefields every year. I think I have it bookmarked on my computer at home. If you want I can check for you when I get out of work today. Just so I don't forget, send me an email at mikester@attglobal.net so that I remember. Mike D aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mikester (edited 06-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARCHANGEL Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elvis: Along the same lines....I will be in Italy from 18 June to 28 June. If anyone on this board lives in Italy could you please email me. I would love to discuss "must see places". My wife and I are planning to do the same type of trip we took to France...ie. .Rent a car and drive with no set place to stay or visit. P.S. I would assume I have played some CM before I go. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Elvis, ANZIO !!! Anzio will give you a wonderful idea of what "high ground" means. So will MONTE CASSINO. The 36th (I think) Inf Div (US, from Texas) was sent across the Rapido River which flows serenely thru the Liri Valley below Monte Cassino. I stood on those banks and looked up at the mountian and shuddered with the thought of all that fire that rained down on those guys. (And I had already been in combat for a few years). It is amazing...but it is also picturesque. I also visited many of the Roman era ruins ( a special hobby of mine) If you want to keep your wife happy, go to Venice, stay on the Canal (at least one night), and be romantic...hopefully THAT will make up for the war stuff... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted June 1, 2000 Share Posted June 1, 2000 Hey, El Tee, I'll keep a scenario open for you, too. Pick a number (as long as it isn't 7 as I have committed to boosting Berli's won-loss ratio with that one. LOL) and side and we'll go double blind when you're able. Please e-mail or post if you're interested. ------------------ We are both men of action. Lies do not become us. — Westley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BFCElvis Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Archangel, Funny you should say that. We are flying into Venice instead of Rome (in fact we have no plans to go to Rome at all) so we will log at least a couple of nights there. I am not 100% familiar with the geography of Italy as far as Anzio and Monte Cassino go. The basic plan is Venice, somewhere in Umbria, somewhere in Tuscany and somewhere in Peidmont (yes wine is high on the list for this trip). I will check out those two areas. Hey, maybe I'll figure out a way to hook up with Lt. Bull too. Moriarty, I have promised 1/2 the scenerios to Peng for blind play and we are waiting to see the list when the game arrives to figure out which ones they will be. I recomend you and I try to play one where I am vastly outnumbered because from what Berli tells me you will need all the help you can get. ------------------ "Trying to be so bad is bad enough. Don't make me laugh by talking tough." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Archangel, thanks for the input, man..... I am really looking forward to this... (My wife has visions of strolling the shops in Paris, but she has no idea what she is in for.....) BWUUUHHHAAAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAAAA!!! ANybody else with suggestions for a France battlefield tour, I would greatly appreciate it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikester Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Thanks to Captain Foobar I was reminded to look up that WWII tour site. The one I was remembering that I had bookmarked here at home is: www.ww2tours.com Also, when I was searching today at work on the web I found a couple of others too. Go to excite.com search engine page and do a search on: WWII tour It only displays 10 sites at a time. So you'll have to go through several pages to see more than one of the tour sites. I think I saw at least 3 more doing a search from there. Best hopes on going and seeing all the wonders of the European battlefields. Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schrullenhaft Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Elvis - Anzio & Monte Cassino are both south of Rome (south & southeast, respectively). There should be some battle-sites in the north of Italy where you are visiting, but they aren't as well known as these other two. I'm jealous of all you guys going to Europe for the summer (though I wouldn't want to face all the tourist crowds). If anyone is heading to Southern Germany/Austria there is the "Passion Play" in Oberammergau (uh.. something like that) just north of Innsbruck. It comes around once a decade, but the tickets are probably already gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Bull Posted June 2, 2000 Author Share Posted June 2, 2000 Hey! Thanks for all the feedback and advice! Looks like I might be catching up with some of you while I'm over there (so TargetDrone, Wesreidau, Stoffel, MichaelU....I will be in contact with you shortly!) I will be in London from 14th to 19th June, then again on the 9th July after a 20 day 10 country tour, after which I will be backpacking around Europe. I have a side flight to Frankfurt up my sleeve and eventually have to make my way down to Trieste at some stage. Super Ted and Moriarty: Thanks for the offers even though it may be difficult for you all to hold back from playing every damn scenario once you get the game! You will hear from me soon. Lt. Bull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Lt Bull, I'd be happy to set aside a scenario to go blind against you. Just let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriarty Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lt Bull: Super Ted and Moriarty: Thanks for the offers even though it may be difficult for you all to hold back from playing every damn scenario once you get the game! You will hear from me soon. Lt. Bull<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Difficult but not impossible. With the number of available scenarios, and Berli kickin' my butt in No. 7, I can hold one back for you. Pick a scenario number and side and the game will be on when you get back. My sig says it all. LOL! ------------------ We are both men of action. Lies do not become us. — Westley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geier Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *Captain Foobar*: ...Anybody else with suggestions for a France battlefield tour, I would greatly appreciate it....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Go to Ypres area. If memory serves me, the French has left parts of the battlefield untouched. You can stroll around, pick up a piece of a helmet, cartridges asf. They might have cleared it by now. Parts of trenches are still there. The book I read about it in was published in 1995. This is WW1 though. Nice book btw. I believe it has been translated to English. "Brev från nollpunkten" (approx Letters from Ground Zero) by Peter Englund. ------------------ Geier, formerly Kettle Black. "The succesful execution of a well devised plan often looks like luck to saps." Dashiell Hammett Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 great LT, I see you around someday here in Holland I guess? Well anyway you can always visit me. You have my number. Stoffel stoffers@casema.net Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YT Posted June 2, 2000 Share Posted June 2, 2000 Firstly, I think we're comparing apples and oranges. I'm not really talking about gaming genres but their design process. I like to refer to games like CC (3,4 and prob 5&6) as 'boardroom' games. You can imagine it- guys in suits sitting around a table discussing demographics, sales, advertising and the ubiquitous 'marketing strategy' on a whiteboard. CM on the other hand is so intrinsically tied to the community that there is little need for business decisions. Instead you get a game that we are all obsessing about and find it really difficult to be negative about. Thus, not only are we comparing genres but we're comparing design philosophies. There is no doubt that CM is more realistic and accurate than CC but remember that we are so personally tied to the CM community (and greater wargaming community) and as a result will 'connect' more with CM- a game made for 'us' by 'us'. I have enjoyed CC but like some of you, have lost faith in the series- CC2 being the pinnacle IMO. CM however is worthy of a 'sim' classification which cannot be applied to CC. CC and CM are just... different. And as for CC 3D- I'm interested in what the suits will do ------------------ When in doubt, refrain from putting that small rodent in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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