Evade towards enemy

[PIATpunk]

is there any consensus that the evade bug is also been seen in other terrain types/modules?

I have definitely observed it in RT, where units would leave the relative safety of a brick building and run towards the enemy. 

[Hardradi]

I think its always been there but rare compared to this bocage problem.

This morning in a FB urban battle a single soldier hiding behind a tall wall ran towards the enemy and my artillery barrage. He panicked when a shell landed on the other side of the wall ran towards the enemy stopped in open ground and was shot by the enemy.

There was another time where one of my ammo bearers in a two man team just ran straight at the enemy in a RT battle even though he was under no duress. Similar to what you have described.

[Freyberg]

On 5/2/2020 at 12:00 PM, PIATpunk said:

is there any consensus that the evade bug is also been seen in other terrain types/modules?

I have definitely observed it in RT, where units would leave the relative safety of a brick building and run towards the enemy. 

 

I wonder perhaps if this is a problem with older maps and a newer version of CM.

I have been making and playing on a lot of maps in CMFI, so they are maps newly made for the latest version. I've come across this problem a number of times, but every time I checked, it was that I hadn't set the friendly edge correctly, and the AI was correctly evading towards the wrong friendly edge.

Just as the houses-and-doors bug seems to be with some sort of file corruption or 'baked in' issue that has crept into older maps, perhaps the same thing has happened with this bug.

[PIATpunk]

There was some testing done by players regarding the old map theory in BN and it didn't appear to be the cause of the issue.

[Chibot Mk IX]

Too bad this problem is still there, I thought it was fixed in 4.02 patch but I was wrong. 

Mr dumb

https://youtu.be/gAPCBsLZxuM

Mr dumber

https://youtu.be/_JTgSOpWDx8

dumb and dumber in SS uniform, note that the evade is caused by small arms fire

https://youtu.be/tPmsn-R26cc

Edited May 6, 2020 by Chibot Mk IX

[RockinHarry]

as mentioned on previous page we can counter most that unwanted behavior by pushing the instant command Pause button at appropiate times. At least til BFC got it all fixed. 

In say 80-90% of cases I could prevent my Ptroopers evade towards the enemy or going wrong way (and time) generally. Off course there´s more micro managing and responsibility on player part. Unfortunately the AIP suffers from same evade behaviors but nothing can be done about that ATM.

Another measure to check on evade wrong way candidates is to actually push the instant command Evade button before the TacAI self applies. This indicates where a friendly unit is most likely to evade when things become too hot in the very near future. Delete just given evade command again and think about measures. That could be just going to hide and very short TA, as well as shifting position to a safer area in more intelligent ways (crawl instead of fast). It also helps if C2 to higher HQ (starting with Plt HQ) remains established all the time. It really pays off of for my iron mode play where things a more brittle due to friendly FOW effects.

[LongLeftFlank]

After another year+ long work-related embargo, quarantine has allowed me to do a little CM design work once again, on my second Le Carillon CMBN scenario, using version 3.0.

FWIW, I have observed the following AI pathing oddity, and am tacking it to this thread, as it isn't worth a separate one.  It didn't otherwise show up in search.

1.  After repeated tests, it appears that once AI controlled units enter a building, they invariably take up a unit Facing that is OPPOSITE the building side they entered. In Scenario Test mode, you can see the AI assign that facing (blue line) at the end of the move.  That is true even if the unit is facing *away* from the enemy. This is regardless of what the Friendly Direction setting may be, or the unit's game start facing (I tested). 

2. They won't subsequently change their facing, even if an enemy unit shoots them up ("Psst, we're over here you idjets!").  In the case of a Spotter team, that's more than a little inconvenient....

3. The workaround seems to be to give them an order to a spot behind the building (i.e. opposite the side you want them to face), and then a follow on order to enter. Just make sure those doors aren't obstructed.

4. I stress tested this using different building types, set destination squares only on the desired side of the building, flagged the enemy as Target Units, slapped a TRP on top of them, confirmed LOS was clear, gave the AI side Full Intel, etc. No love, nothing got the AI's attention.  Same thing happened with a non-Spotter team, although larger squads will post some squaddies facing other directions.

BFC, please fix or sumfinksumfinksumfinksumfink...

[RockinHarry]

Expanding on the Pause instant command feature to avoid some the TacAI worst Evade decisions, I figured it can be used for moving units as well. Though bits of luck required here. In case an infantry unit is moved to potentially insecure position at very short distance (1-3 AS), one can apply an idefinite "Pause" at the end waypoint too. Cycling through normal pause command (P key) gives indefinite pause at the end of the cycle. The Pause then "snaps" if all the troopers reached and deployed within destined waypoint AS. If now before a WEGO turn ends the TacAI applies Evade, it won´t get executed just like for non moving units and Pause already in effect. And that´s the luck part. If the team/squad can´t finish the move and the TacAI decides to Evade (for whatever reasons), it gets executed as usual (Pause gets deleted with last waypoint).

I found this beeing most usefull in MOUT or similar situations with enough friendlies around (or approaching just in time) to deal with threat(s) that got a threatened unit Evade otherwise. Even if unsupported a heavily suppressed unit can gain precious time to deal with the threat by itself. If given time, there´s almost always 1-2 troopers that shoot back and ease on the situation, when otherwise running away (Evade) would be executed straightway. All depends on terrain, threats and bits of luck, but more often than not simply keeping heads down in favourable terrain is better than running off into all kind of (new) enemy fire outside cover.

Not tested yet but I think there´s some similar possibilities for timed pause as well.

[RockinHarry]

On 5/7/2020 at 3:22 AM, LongLeftFlank said:

After another year+ long work-related embargo, quarantine has allowed me to do a little CM design work once again, on my second Le Carillon CMBN scenario, using version 3.0.

FWIW, I have observed the following AI pathing oddity, and am tacking it to this thread, as it isn't worth a separate one.  It didn't otherwise show up in search.

1.  After repeated tests, it appears that once AI controlled units enter a building, they invariably take up a unit Facing that is OPPOSITE the building side they entered. In Scenario Test mode, you can see the AI assign that facing (blue line) at the end of the move.  That is true even if the unit is facing *away* from the enemy. This is regardless of what the Friendly Direction setting may be, or the unit's game start facing (I tested). 

2. They won't subsequently change their facing, even if an enemy unit shoots them up ("Psst, we're over here you idjets!").  In the case of a Spotter team, that's more than a little inconvenient....

3. The workaround seems to be to give them an order to a spot behind the building (i.e. opposite the side you want them to face), and then a follow on order to enter. Just make sure those doors aren't obstructed.

4. I stress tested this using different building types, set destination squares only on the desired side of the building, flagged the enemy as Target Units, slapped a TRP on top of them, confirmed LOS was clear, gave the AI side Full Intel, etc. No love, nothing got the AI's attention.  Same thing happened with a non-Spotter team, although larger squads will post some squaddies facing other directions.

BFC, please fix or sumfinksumfinksumfinksumfink...

Think 1. is oftenly related to a buildings invisible stairway in case of multi story buildings. Units moving up (or down) a floor make an end "face" along last given movement direction on the stairway. In CM V3.x you´ll miss V4.x  "face" command to deal with that particular AIP situation sufficiently well. Normally AIP units face toward next assigned waypoint (map zone), but can´t quite remember how it all was pre V 4.x. A circular target arc (ambush x meter) might help as well as is an additional  movement order on same spot and floor. An additional movement order toward the desired facing, but not yet (or never) executed gives the same effect (desired inside building facing).

One can also take advantage from wrong facing within buildings. Usually units that face the friendly and not enemy side wall (and windows) are less likely to be spotted and shot at. They´re also a bit safer from any incoming fire due to the abstracted inside building cover effects. Quite a good human player tactic and can be applied in AI plans as well (fairly easy with V4.x "face").