Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Does providing buddy aid to fallen team members have any effect on morale recovery? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Wales Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 (edited) @BletchleyGeek If you watch my first post video you see a unit recovering from Panic back up to Nervous. I think you are focusing on the state as opposed to the impact on Morale that caused the state to be arrived at. The 2 ways that morale can be impacted are not mutually exclusive. The unit in your video has indeed been impacted by Combat Stress. In addition it is also being impacted by Combat Shock. If we look at the video, to start with its not clear how much of each impact is affecting the unit, we just see a Rattled state, a casualty and some moderate to heavy suppression showing in the Suppression Indicator. As we continue to watch, the Suppression indicator reduces and the Morale state increases to Cautious (albeit briefly) If we pause here we can say that Combat Stress is causing the unit to be Cautious. However it was the combined effect of Combat Stress and Combat Shock that had caused the unit to be Rattled. To throw in some arbitrary numbers and approach it from a maths perspective. The unit was suffering a persistent impact on its Morale of -10 from the casualty build up within the unit (Combat Stress). In addition the unit was also suffering a temporary impact on its Morale of -20 from the incoming fire causing suppression (Combat Shock). Therefore the total impact on Morale is -30 (Stress & Shock combined). Once the suppression affect wears off, the -20 impact goes away but the -10 impact from the persistent effect is still there. The unit will never get into a better Morale state than Cautious, because the Cautious state had been caused by Combat Stress. If we run the video a bit more we see the Morale state change again to Nervous although there has been no increase in the Suppression Indicator. We can assume that another unit closely connected organisationally to the one shown has taken 1 or more casualties, thereby increasing casualty build up which has a persistent affect on Morale (Combat Stress) dropping the shown unit into the persistent state of Nervous. The unit will now never recover to any state better than Nervous because it is Combat Stress which has caused it to arrive at this state. To continue my arbitrary number example, the persistent affect on the units Morale is now -20 due to the casualty build up. However the impact from Combat Shock is 0 because no suppression is incoming. Therefore the total impact on Morale is -20. The unit can then of course come under fire again and move into Rattled as a result of Combat Shock. However, providing there is no casualty build up from the incoming fire, then the unit will recover to Nervous again once the suppression has worn off. Edited September 26, 2017 by Josey Wales 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Wales Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 1 hour ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: Does providing buddy aid to fallen team members have any effect on morale recovery? I ran a test where a Veteran platoon with +2 Leadership and +2 Motivation got whittled down to 5 men per squad before overcoming the threat. The persistent Morale state for all the squads was Nervous at this point. The next few turns were spent providing buddy aid so that all 21 of the casualties had been dealt with. The squads then spent the next 90mins recovering within close C2 of their Plt HQ and were still Nervous at the end of that time. The conclusion is that providing buddy aid to fallen team members does not have any effect on Morale recovery. So far nothing has been seen to improve any Morale state which has been arrived at by the impact of Combat Stress. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Cheers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BletchleyGeek Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 2 hours ago, Josey Wales said: you watch my first post video you see a unit recovering from Panic back up to Nervous. I think you are focusing on the state as opposed to the impact on Morale that caused the state to be arrived at. The 2 ways that morale can be impacted are not mutually exclusive. Thanks for your patience @Josey Wales , I had read you with more attention that I had devoted to the video. Certainly, units that panic can get back to a functional state morale. And yes, I do agree that you have isolated well the mechanism. Somewhat unrelated, another event I have sometimes observed is that the morale status of a multi team unit i. e. a squad, shown is the worst amongst the morale states of its components. By breaking down units, you end up sometimes with one or more detachments having a better morale state than the whole. Have you observed this too? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 28 minutes ago, BletchleyGeek said: By breaking down units, you end up sometimes with one or more detachments having a better morale state than the whole. Have you observed this too? Oh yes, regularly. I suspect that the information is really being tracked per soldier - hence their different reactions to suppression etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Wales Posted September 26, 2017 Author Share Posted September 26, 2017 @BletchleyGeek You're welcome, thank you. In regards to the split teams, my initial tests show seems to indicate the Morale state of the squad is averaged out between the teams. I had gotten a conscript squad into Rattled and then removed them from contact. They had taken 4 casualties. I then split the squad into 3 teams. 2 remained Rattled and one was Broken. The Broken team was a 5 man team but had suffered all 4 of the casualties. I put the squad back together and its Morale state was Rattled. I then ran them around to get them to sustain another casualty and then removed them from contact. They were now Broken. I split the squad up again and now I had 2 teams that were Broken and one that was Rattled. The Broken teams had suffered 4 and 1 casualties and the Rattled team none. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilts Posted September 26, 2017 Share Posted September 26, 2017 Thanks for posting this test. It's very informative. I would be interested to know what would happen if the platoon hq were eliminated and the company hq stepped in. Would you expect these results to be replicated? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 Yes, the effect of a Co HQ would also be very interesting. Also, the effect of the XO or 2IC if the Co CO is KIA. So many times we use em as medics or recon and it would be great if there were a meaningful role for them (in the game). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 12 hours ago, Josey Wales said: The next few turns were spent providing buddy aid so that all 21 of the casualties had been dealt with. The squads then spent the next 90mins kicking me in the head, as revenge for what had been done to their mates.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Wales Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 @Hilts @Erwin Co HQs & Bttn HQs have the same effect on a squads Morale as a Plt HQ in that being within a close C2 link (Close Visual/Voice) does provide resistance to the impact on Morale caused by Combat Shock provided that the squad is in the same Company for a Co HQ or the same Battalion for a Bttn HQ. Co XO's and Bttn Ops do not share a C2 link with squads and therefore provide no benefit under normal conditions. However should the Co Commander be incapacitated, then the XO steps into that role and can then provide the C2 link and provide resistance to the impact on Morale caused by Combat Shock to subordinate units within close C2 link. In the testing that I undertook, Bttn Ops do not seem to step into the Bttn Commanders role should he become incapacitated. @Warts 'n' all The 21 shall be remembered, their sacrifice shall not have been in vain. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted September 27, 2017 Share Posted September 27, 2017 This is all well and good, but you might want to re-check the typing on your thread tags. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Josey Wales Posted September 27, 2017 Author Share Posted September 27, 2017 25 minutes ago, SLIM said: This is all well and good, but you might want to re-check the typing on your thread tags. Ha, well 'farigue' is when you travel a long way before you get tired. And ':eadership' is what an assistant leader provides when the leader is killed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hilts Posted September 28, 2017 Share Posted September 28, 2017 On 27/09/2017 at 6:46 PM, Josey Wales said: @Hilts @Erwin Co HQs & Bttn HQs have the same effect on a squads Morale as a Plt HQ in that being within a close C2 link (Close Visual/Voice) does provide resistance to the impact on Morale caused by Combat Shock provided that the squad is in the same Company for a Co HQ or the same Battalion for a Bttn HQ. Co XO's and Bttn Ops do not share a C2 link with squads and therefore provide no benefit under normal conditions. However should the Co Commander be incapacitated, then the XO steps into that role and can then provide the C2 link and provide resistance to the impact on Morale caused by Combat Shock to subordinate units within close C2 link. In the testing that I undertook, Bttn Ops do not seem to step into the Bttn Commanders role should he become incapacitated. Excellent!.......Thanks for the heads up. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonPhillips Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Please can this thread be stickied? It's one of the most interesting and useful resources about the game I've ever seen 👍🏼 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Jack Ripper Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 On 10/1/2017 at 5:13 AM, jonPhillips said: Please can this thread be stickied? It's one of the most interesting and useful resources about the game I've ever seen 👍🏼 If all the threads that should be stickied were stickied, then you'd have to go to page 50 to read anything new. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 What this info needs to be put in is an online CM2 manual that can be referenced. Wish it was available when CM2 came out with CMSF 10(!) years ago. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 5, 2017 Share Posted October 5, 2017 5 hours ago, SLIM said: If all the threads that should be stickied were stickied, then you'd have to go to page 50 to read anything new. exactly and what is wrong with a bookmark Create a folder in your bookmarks, call it CM game information or some such, bookmark link.. voila! You have the tools soldier, use em!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 Jeezus, what is the world coming to? sburke has begun making actually useful suggestions! I may need to lie down until the shock wears off. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 1 hour ago, Michael Emrys said: Jeezus, what is the world coming to? sburke has begun making actually useful suggestions! I may need to lie down until the shock wears off. Michael yeah right?! I had to sit down and pop open a bottle of wine myself. This thinking stuff is just a bit hard to handle. And this was my second in 2 days. Last night the wife took me to see Coldplay. The 4 people in front of us were all watching the concert through their iPhones and inviting all their friends on social media to watch. I suggested that next time they can save a bunch by just drawing straws. The loser goes to the concert and the other 3 get to sit at home relaxing watching through their iPhones.... then I kicked them over the railing. No not really but...... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted October 6, 2017 Share Posted October 6, 2017 20 hours ago, SLIM said: If all the threads that should be stickied were stickied, then you'd have to go to page 50 to read anything new. For sure - every now and then I lobby the powers that be to un sticky threads. They are way more tolerant of sticky threads than I would be . I have a book mark folder call FAQ where I have lots of links like this. Everyone should have one. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 12 hours ago, IanL said: I have a book mark folder call FAQ where I have lots of links like this. Everyone should have one. Yes, it's a good idea, one I wish I had thought of years ago. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 28 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said: Yes, it's a good idea, one I wish I had thought of years ago. Michael if you ask nicely I think Ian might share. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 Oh yeah I could do that. Is anyone interested - he says tentativly hoping @sburke is not pulling my leg. Mind you it's not all play information some tech settings and several of Steve's answers to some questions some people don't seem to want to hear :-). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 7, 2017 Share Posted October 7, 2017 heck I'd be interested to get em. When they swapped the forum out a while back a lot of my links got broken. A little google fu and searching the archive recovered some. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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