Time of day still not shown?

[Lt Bull]

Hi,

Have only played one scenario (currently in PBEM) and several battles in to the Pieper operation (awesome so far!). I think BFC did a great job of capturing the winter in the Ardennes look and feel (colour palette) and a huge shout out to the map makers!  Great work.

I have seen the threads of people wanting to see new features however, and I too would want to see the game develop more features, rather than purely graphical updates.

There still are a number of simple/minor features missing from the game that baffle me as to why they don't exist.

One of these is the conventional way to know "what time of day" it is in any given battle. eg. 0738hrs, or 1528hrs

 Instead, the game just shows the "base" number of minutes (turns) remaining in the battle.

Why is this something to care about?  Well, as you know, the game does have a day/night cycle that tries to simulate changes in visible light and hence visibility ranges. Several scenarios/operations etc that you play are based on dusk/dawn time.  As a consequence it becomes very important to understand when these changes in visibility are going to occur.

I have been playing the Pieper operation and for the first time have seen a special effort by the scenario/operation designer in the battle briefing to indicate what the "visibility range" is at the start of battles and what the "visibility range" will become later in the battle as daylight sets in and how important it was.  They also mention the range at which enemy gun fire can be spotted.  You play the battle and you "unrealistically" have no idea what time it is!

I understand that the scenario/operation designer could just arbitrarily say that sunrise will begin "x" minutes/turns in to the battle and last for "y" minutes/turns (something hey did not mention in my case) but is it really that much of an issue to instead have a "time of day" clock players can easily check against say sunrise/sunset times mentioned in the briefing?  In fact, all sunset/sunrise times are fixed based on the date/year and the game could automatically list this information somewhere in the briefing notes.

I also think that using 2400hr notation is a bit more "immersive" and useful when reading it in a briefing rather than everything based on "minutes/turns from the start of the battle", something a player can lose track of anyway once a battle starts anyway.

Again, no big deal but something easy/simple that I am sure would be appreciated.

Edited April 10, 2016 by Lt Bull
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[George MC]

@Lt BullTop right of the screen when you are playing the scenario - you'll see the 'real time' there. It counts like a real clock as the scenario progresses.

I use it all the time - pretty much as you outline. In fact I'm part way through KG Peiper myself and it's been really useful for keeping track during the action - more so than the counter at the bottom right.

Edited April 10, 2016 by George MC

[Lt Bull]

2 minutes ago, George MC said:

@Lt BullTop right of the screen when you are playing the scenario - you'll see the 'real time' there. It counts like a real clock as the scenario progresses.

I use it all the time - pretty much as you outline. In fact I'm part way through KG Peiper myself and it's been really useful for keeping track during the action - more so than the counter at the bottom right.

@George MC LOL!!!!! OMG....it is too! All these years and never noticed :/  Awesome, thanks. I thought it seemed a bit odd such a feature didn't exist in the game.

Now with that sorted, we can perhaps instead discuss the potential for sunrise/sunset times to be automatically added somewhere in the briefing notes/conditions tab when a scenario is created based on a database of what the historical sunset/sunrises were based on the battle date set in the scenario editor..

A scenario designer may or may not care about the actual time of day or actual date of the scansion they are making, but that should not be a big deal.  Each scenario could give the player this information regardless without the scenario designer necessarily knowing or being aware of when sunset/sunrise actually occur.

[George MC]

3 minutes ago, Lt Bull said:

@George MC LOL!!!!! OMG....it is too! All these years and never noticed :/  Awesome, thanks. I thought it seemed a bit odd such a feature didn't exist in the game.

Now with that sorted, we can perhaps instead discuss the potential for sunrise/sunset times to be automatically added somewhere in the briefing notes/conditions tab when a scenario is created based on a database of what the historical sunset/sunrises were based on the battle date set in the scenario editor..

A scenario designer may or may not care about the actual time of day or actual date of the scansion they are making, but that should not be a big deal.  Each scenario could give the player this information regardless without the scenario designer necessarily knowing or being aware of when sunset/sunrise actually occur.

He! Nae worries

I usually just check the times by an almanac on-line for the areas the scenario is set in then, and double check in game. Pretty accurate I've found. I tend to use real time in my own scenario briefs rather than game time e.g. reinforcements X ETA 1900Hrs. If the time of sunset/sundown is important then I mention the actual times in the brief. Most of what you are asking for can be done by the designer already.

[Combatintman]

1 hour ago, Lt Bull said:

@George MC LOL!!!!! OMG....it is too! All these years and never noticed :/  Awesome, thanks. I thought it seemed a bit odd such a feature didn't exist in the game.

Now with that sorted, we can perhaps instead discuss the potential for sunrise/sunset times to be automatically added somewhere in the briefing notes/conditions tab when a scenario is created based on a database of what the historical sunset/sunrises were based on the battle date set in the scenario editor..

A scenario designer may or may not care about the actual time of day or actual date of the scansion they are making, but that should not be a big deal.  Each scenario could give the player this information regardless without the scenario designer necessarily knowing or being aware of when sunset/sunrise actually occur.

Too much work for little gain would be my viewpoint ... would it be nice ... of course but at the end of the day (if you forgive the pun) there are plenty of cues out there. Even if the designer has skimped on the detail in the briefing, when you first load the scenario you are told the time of day. When you go into deployment mode you can see the light conditions and work out from there whether it is going to get lighter or darker.

[Lt Bull]

57 minutes ago, Combatintman said:

Too much work for little gain would be my viewpoint ... would it be nice ... of course

"Too much work"? Really? Why?

The game already must have a "look-up" table of sunrise/sunset AND lunar phase operational somewhere in the game code which I think is a awesome.

Don't believe me?  Start the scenario editor, set the date to 1 Oct 1944, set the time to 0600hrs and go to 3D preview.  Now change the date to 31 Dec 1944 and set the time to the same 0600hrs and now go to 3D preview. In October the sky is kinda pinky dawn, but in Dec it is black and starry. I am quite sure this is not simply cosmetic but actually reflects the light that affects LOS/visibility.

All BFC would need to do is assign text based values to this pre-existing/working table that "stamps"/saves the sunrise/sunset time (and even lunar cycle for that matter) in to the scenario file, which like the many other bits of unchanging information related to a scenario are available for inspection by the player (specifically the info found in the "Conditions" tab).

I do not see any reason why this information could not be simply displayed in the pre-existing "Conditions" window that already displays Weather, Temperature, Ground Conditions and Wind.  It seems natural/logical and complete to just add 2 or 3 extra lines: Sunset, sunrise, lunar phase.

Come to think of it, the rational of a "too much work/too little gain" argument in this case would have applied equally to if I was suggesting BFC add Weather, Temperature, Ground Conditions and Wind to the Conditions window. What makes showing sunrise/sunset time (and lunar phase) any more "difficult" to display in the Conditions window?

Edited April 10, 2016 by Lt Bull

[A Canadian Cat]

What would be the value of adding sunrise and sunset times to the briefing of say a half hour battle at 1100. Heck even for a 2 hour battle?

[Andrew H.]

7 hours ago, George MC said:

@Lt BullTop right of the screen when you are playing the scenario - you'll see the 'real time' there. It counts like a real clock as the scenario progresses.

I use it all the time - pretty much as you outline. In fact I'm part way through KG Peiper myself and it's been really useful for keeping track during the action - more so than the counter at the bottom right.

Wow!  I didn't know that was there either.  I haven't really needed it for sunrise/sunset, but I've always had to do the math for reinforcements...i.e., if the scenario starts at 11:15 and the reinforcements are coming at 11:40 and 11:50, what will the timer show at the time the reinforcements are scheduled to arrive?

Show your work...

[MarkEzra]

Does ANYBODY really know what time it is?

Edited April 10, 2016 by MarkEzra
answer: Only in Chicago

[Ultradave]

10 hours ago, Lt Bull said:

Hi,

Have only played one scenario (currently in PBEM) and several battles in to the Pieper operation (awesome so far!). I think BFC did a great job of capturing the winter in the Ardennes look and feel (colour palette) and a huge shout out to the map makers!  Great work.

I have seen the threads of people wanting to see new features however, and I too would want to see the game develop more features, rather than purely graphical updates.

There still are a number of simple/minor features missing from the game that baffle me as to why they don't exist.

One of these is the conventional way to know "what time of day" it is in any given battle. eg. 0738hrs, or 1528hrs

 Instead, the game just shows the "base" number of minutes (turns) remaining in the battle.

 

Top right. Right in the middle of the compass. It's always been there and it still is.

[Splinty]

37 minutes ago, MarkEzra said:

Does ANYBODY really know what time it is?

I see what you did there!

[Dennis50]

58 minutes ago, MarkEzra said:

Does ANYBODY really know what time it is?

 

59 minutes ago, MarkEzra said:

answer: Only in Chicago

I don't get it ...

[Ultradave]

1 hour ago, Dennis50 said:

 

I don't get it ...

Seriously? In case it is:  (and i have no idea what that emoji represents)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBuUUBrC9eQ

 

[Tempestzzzz]

 

[Dennis50]

I was never a Chicago fan ...guess that would explain it.

[Lt Bull]

11 hours ago, IanL said:

What would be the value of adding sunrise and sunset times to the briefing of say a half hour battle at 1100. Heck even for a 2 hour battle?

? I don't think you structured your comment very well but I will address what you said and what I think you wanted to say.

Value of adding sunrise/sunset times to the briefing? That should be pretty obvious. If you made a scenario that occurred during sunset or sunrise, the timing of when the sunrise or sunset actually occurs could be (generally is) a rather important consideration given the vastly different effects between pre/post sunset/sunrise (the transition period lasts about 15min).

However I was talking about having it automatically listed in the "Conditions" window (where it obviously naturally belongs) along with Wind Conditions, Temperature and Ground Conditions.  Obviously no one really cares when sunrise/sunset is when playing a battle in the middle of the day or night.

But then again no one really cares what the Wind Conditions are in a scenario that features no smoke.

Or what the Temperature is in battles that mainly feature vehicles (or even those with infantry, do we really know to what extent infantry fatigue/fatigue recovery is affected?)

Or what the Ground Conditions are in scenarios where combat is taking place primarily in paved towns/cities.

What's the value of showing this data in those scenarios?  Should this information be removed from the "Conditions" window? Of course not. It's just easier, more complete and consistent to always display this "environmental" information for the player in that window at all times regardless of whether it is important or not to them in the particular scenario they are playing. If they do need it, they know where to look;if they don't, big deal!. It takes no effort by anyone (except a  once off minor coding by BFC) to display that information there and it's not like there is any sane/compelling reason why it SHOULDN'T be shown there.

Curiously, I wonder how many scenario designers that have designed sunset/sunrise battle are actually aware themselves of when the sunrise/sunset occurs for their battle!  I bet few have actually really known or bothered to find out. If CM displayed it then they could much easily plan/create their scenarios around this information.  Another reason for showing it but this time within the Scenario Editor itself at the time of scenario creation.

An officer on the ground would typically be well aware of the sunrise/sunset times and plans could be made around it to the very minute.  An argument why the game is better off not showing this information anywhere at any time is ridiculous.

(It does pain me to explain in detail what I think is bloody obvious, but that is what you need to do sometimes I guess)

Edited April 11, 2016 by Lt Bull

[A Canadian Cat]

5 minutes ago, Lt Bull said:

Value of adding sunrise/sunset times to the briefing? That should be pretty obvious. If you made a scenario that occurred during sunset or sunrise, the timing of when the sunrise or sunset actually occurs could be

Sorry, I was not clear, some how.  I was specifically wondering how it would help it being added to the briefing for battles where sun rise and sun set times play no part at all.

 

5 minutes ago, Lt Bull said:

However I was talking about having it automatically listed in the "Conditions" window

 

You said, originally, that you wanted it added automatically to the briefing. Having it in the conditions dialog would be an OK addition. 

 

5 minutes ago, Lt Bull said:

(It does pain me to explain in detail what I think is bloody obvious, but that is what you need to do sometimes I guess)

I feel your pain.