Splitting a squad before dismounting?

[gnarly]

I think the answer is no, but I can't find a clear comment to indicate this either way via searching the forums.

 

Is there any way of splitting a squad into two teams prior to their dismount at a destination? ie. vehicle arrives at destination, I want one sub-team to go left and hide in those bushes, whilst the other team goes right for shelter behind that fence. What I don't want if all 6 or 7 of them to hide behind the same thing, until next turn when I can Split the squad.

 

 

[Bud Backer]

Unless there is some obscure trick I've never discovered, I don't think there is any way to do what you've described. I've wished for this myself. 

[gnarly]

Many thanks Bud

[Baneman]

Well, there is a trick that can be applied under certain conditions, although it's a bit gnarly ( sorry, couldn't resist such a good opportunity  ).

If your situation is going to follow from setup you can do the following :

Give your halftrack/truck/tank its movement order.
Dismount your squad and split them.
Remount one team, then give them their movement order.
Remount the other team and do the same.

As long as they each have a separate movement order,  they will not recombine in the vehicle

This can be done during the game as well, but it obviously will take longer as you have to split the embarkation process across 2 turns so that you can give the element that is in the vehicle a destination movement order before the other element boards ( and the vehicle needs a movement order too, so that element 1 doesn't hop out and start legging it )

Hope that helps.

( I'm an inveterate splitter-of-squads, so often I will split a platoon at setup, then place them asymmetrically in their transport ie. Plt 1 Squad A + Plt 3 Squad B in halftrack 1 etc. That way the problem doesn't arise later, although you need to be a bit of a mad-micromanager like me  to be happy to do this )

[gnarly]

Both options are very clever Baneman, thanks!

[Bud Backer]

Those are great tips, Baneman! I can see how they would be useful, but fiddly to achieve. My usual opponent in CM is one who loves-loves-loves to split squads so I will be sure to pass it on to him. Thank you.

 

[womble]

Yeah, it doesn't arise (often), because all squads are split before the game starts, and reinforcements with mounted troops go somewhere quiet to reorganise before being put anywhere that might need the teams to act independently...

[MOS:96B2P]

( I'm an inveterate splitter-of-squads, so often I will split a platoon at setup, then place them asymmetrically in their transport ie. Plt 1 Squad A + Plt 3 Squad B in halftrack 1 etc. That way the problem doesn't arise later, although you need to be a bit of a mad-micromanager like me  to be happy to do this )

I like this part and I think it may be especially useful with some modern Russian vehicles (BMP-2 & BMP-3) where a soldier from the squad needs to stay behind to occupy the commanders position for spotting purposes.  

In the past I would dismount the entire squad, split off a two man scout team, send the two man team back into the BMP (One of the scouts will sit in the commanders seat.) Then send the rest of the squad on it's mission.  Maybe I will try this asymmetrical boarding so the BMP can stop, the maneuver team exits and the scouts are already in place.  One less minute used.  In training we will call the drill BABS (Baneman's Asymmetrical Boarding Drill)  The troops will come up with there own name for it             

[Bud Backer]

They'll say BABS is an evil bi*ch that messes with men's minds and breaks up friendships.

 

[gnarly]

I like this part and I think it may be especially useful with some modern Russian vehicles (BMP-2 & BMP-3) where a soldier from the squad needs to stay behind to occupy the commanders position for spotting purposes. 

The things you learn; I had no idea! So basically, if a squad dismounts, the BMP's spotting is severely compromised? And re-adding only a single soldier resolves this?

[MOS:96B2P]

<Snip> if a squad dismounts, the BMP's spotting is severely compromised?  <Snip>

Yes.  The smallest team that can be split off the squad is a two man team.  (I use the Scout team since it is only two troops)  So there will be an extra troop in the vehicle.  There is a thread that talks about this in more detail.   

Also of interest some vehicles do not get the benefit from their primary thermal sensor if buttoned.  Below are some of those vehicles. 

M1151 Recon Humvee

M1167 ATGM Humvee

M1127 Stryker RV

M1131 Stryker FSV

M1200 Armored Knight

[Blazing 88's]

Well, there is a trick that can be applied under certain conditions, although it's a bit gnarly ( sorry, couldn't resist such a good opportunity  ).

If your situation is going to follow from setup you can do the following :

Give your halftrack/truck/tank its movement order.
Dismount your squad and split them.
Remount one team, then give them their movement order.
Remount the other team and do the same.

As long as they each have a separate movement order,  they will not recombine in the vehicle

This can be done during the game as well, but it obviously will take longer as you have to split the embarkation process across 2 turns so that you can give the element that is in the vehicle a destination movement order before the other element boards ( and the vehicle needs a movement order too, so that element 1 doesn't hop out and start legging it )

Hope that helps.

( I'm an inveterate splitter-of-squads, so often I will split a platoon at setup, then place them asymmetrically in their transport ie. Plt 1 Squad A + Plt 3 Squad B in halftrack 1 etc. That way the problem doesn't arise later, although you need to be a bit of a mad-micromanager like me  to be happy to do this )

Do you not have to dismount first, split, give the vehicle a movement order, then start mounting the split squads giving each squad its movement order?  I ask because the order you mentioned never works for me.  When I give the vehicle a movement order first, the 'dismount' icon is not usable.

Edited November 21, 2015 by Blazing 88's

[Kinophile]

I'm not sure of this note re bmp losing spotting ability once squads dismount.

I just played out a meat grinder of a MOUT versus @Abbasid111. 3xBMP companies were perfectly capable after the infantry dismounted - overwatch, suppression, anti-tank. It ended with a Black Watch style frontal charge by 4-5 BMPs (with Tunguska support) through a smoke bank against three T64s.

BMPs did perfectly fine at spotting and targeting the MBTs. 

Throughout the game I saw absolutely no degradation in BMP capability once empty of troops. 

 

 

[MOS:96B2P]

I'm not sure of this note re bmp losing spotting ability once squads dismount.  <Snip>

Here is one of the threads where it has been discussed in a little more detail.  It looks like your game was Red vs Red.  A Red vs Red game where mostly BMPs are used and one player keeps the TC seat occupied and the other does not might show the advantage better.        

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/119959-help-with-russians/?page=1

[Vet 0369]

I believe that BF explained this in another post. The explanation was that while a BMP carries a nine-man squad, three will remain in the BMP to man it while the other six exit. You are able to "bail out" the three that stayed behind, but I haven't tested if you can combine with the other six. I think it was Steve who said BF did this to make the BMP less confusing for game play reasons.

[MOS:96B2P]

I believe that BF explained this in another post. The explanation was that while a BMP carries a nine-man squad, three will remain in the BMP to man it while the other six exit. You are able to "bail out" the three that stayed behind, but I haven't tested if you can combine with the other six. I think it was Steve who said BF did this to make the BMP less confusing for game play reasons.

I think that conversation was in reference to cross loading squads in a US Bradley platoon.  In RL a complete squad does not fit in a US Bradley as it does in the game.

A BMP only has a two man crew.  The driver and the gunner.  The squad leader sits in the commanders position and has use of equipment for spotting.  When the squad leader dismounts with his squad the commanders position is vacant and spotting ability for the vehicle declines.  If a third troop is loaded into the vehicle he will take the commanders seat and increase the potential ability to spot (I imagine the soft factors of the troop in the seat come into play).  The smallest element you can split off the squad is a two man team so I send the two man scout team back in the vehicle.

   

[Kinophile]

This is pretty awkward.

I Have to lose a man from the squad to just sitting in the BMP sipping vodka while his squaddies fight for their pixelated lives outside?

Hmmmmmm.

[gnarly]

This is pretty awkward.

I Have to lose a man from the squad to just sitting in the BMP sipping vodka while his squaddies fight for their pixelated lives outside?

Hmmmmmm.

Yeah, and then you cannot split the remaining squad any further....

[Vanir Ausf B]

This is pretty awkward.

I Have to lose a man from the squad to just sitting in the BMP sipping vodka while his squaddies fight for their pixelated lives outside?

Hmmmmmm.

In my experience the guys outside have the longer life expectancy...

[Kinophile]

In my experience the guys outside have the longer life expectancy...

Lol true.... Still,  he then dies a doubly useless death -  he doesn't add to his mates fire nor does he enhance the BMP in any way.

It feels like the BMP should come with at least a permanent  driver,  allowing us to cleanly split off a two man team from the main squad and create both a properly crewed BMP and a coherent infantry squad.