A Canadian Cat Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 So, I am going to chime in here with my observation from a current battle in one of @Kohlenklau's umpired campaigns. The additional challenge and enjoyment I am getting from playing in this operational game based campaign has surprised even me (AAR is on going here: http://community.battlefront.com/topic/120243-allied-aar-cmpzc-campaign-the-road-to-eindhoven-dommelen-battle-hex-1-6/). I find my self considering the condition of my company of infantry and tanks much more than normal (I usually play in a way that I care for my troops but this has upped it a notch). I find my self thinking well if this was just a single game for victory points I might "go for it" and be a bit reckless a few times. But in the context provided by the operational layer I know I must work to maintain my force's integrity. Not just because my battalion CO will be upset but just because of the overall operational success. Like I was saying I have really enjoyed the added context. The amount of work that @Kohlenklau (and others) has put into creating the environment is non trivial. If we had an operational layer that had some integration with CM it would be possible for people to play this kind of game without an umpire (sorry man, I am trying to put you out of business here )*. I think that would be really really great. I think a lot of you would find even more enjoyment form CM. * I actually think it would allow @Kohlenklau to do his umpire job even better and offer more scope to a campaign while at the same time many many more CM players could enjoy this feeling of playing inside a greater context because there are only so many umpires around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 Lieutenant rocketman reporting for duty - pledge made Should be worth its money along with the fun of being part of a development process. IanL - you made the final selling point to up the pledge with the testemony about the added context and how it changes the view of a single CM battle. Let's make this happen 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Great post Ian! I do hope that folks see out on the horizon the great potential this op layer represents. Support is needed now or that ship out there on the horizon will be lost in the fog. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 IanL - you made the final selling point to up the pledge Excellent - glad to help. I would up vote you but I'm out for the day - it has been a good day 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 Thanks Joakim! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Excellent - glad to help. I would up vote you but I'm out for the day - it has been a good day I can fill in for you there. Having done a couple campaigns with Broadsword I absolutely agree. It is one thing to have the scenario briefing tell you what success or failure might mean. It is another to know that your next battle is going to be based around your results and to know the overall force and terrain conditions that this particular battle could influence. In the case of our St Lo campaign, for me it meant trying to keep my frontline from utterly collapsing. great fun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 So, I am going to chime in here with my observation from a current battle in one of @Kohlenklau's umpired campaigns. The additional challenge and enjoyment I am getting from playing in this operational game based campaign has surprised even me (AAR is on going here: http://community.battlefront.com/topic/120243-allied-aar-cmpzc-campaign-the-road-to-eindhoven-dommelen-battle-hex-1-6/). I find my self considering the condition of my company of infantry and tanks much more than normal (I usually play in a way that I care for my troops but this has upped it a notch). I find my self thinking well if this was just a single game for victory points I might "go for it" and be a bit reckless a few times. But in the context provided by the operational layer I know I must work to maintain my force's integrity. Not just because my battalion CO will be upset but just because of the overall operational success. Like I was saying I have really enjoyed the added context. The amount of work that @Kohlenklau (and others) has put into creating the environment is non trivial. If we had an operational layer that had some integration with CM it would be possible for people to play this kind of game without an umpire (sorry man, I am trying to put you out of business here )*. I think that would be really really great. I think a lot of you would find even more enjoyment form CM. * I actually think it would allow @Kohlenklau to do his umpire job even better and offer more scope to a campaign while at the same time many many more CM players could enjoy this feeling of playing inside a greater context because there are only so many umpires around. Well put, Ian. My thoughts exactly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rocketman Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 No more mad last minute object rushes or tank crew suicide scouting. Force preservation. More realism. And that can only be a good thing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwabie Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 kohlenklau/Choppinit question, does this project have support from BF? I assume porting OOB data and maps between Combat Ops <-> CMx2 would need BFC's code support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Hi Skwabie, Yes. BFC Steve has several posts in the original thread (stickied) where he pledges to make a direct link but on the condition that the game is first developed and has "successful" sales. But please go read his exact words...! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skwabie Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 Hi Skwabie, Yes. BFC Steve has several posts in the original thread (stickied) where he pledges to make a direct link but on the condition that the game is first developed and has "successful" sales. But please go read his exact words...! Hey kohlenklau, nice to hear and thanks! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon21 Posted September 4, 2015 Share Posted September 4, 2015 (edited) I've seen a lot of kickstarters. It seems like you are only trying to harvest people from the forum here as the pitch on kickstarter. Edited September 4, 2015 by simon21 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted September 4, 2015 Author Share Posted September 4, 2015 Hi Simon21, How does it seem that way??? I think we are posted on almost a dozen different forums. I see the views but often nobody posts any questions. A few sites have posted questions and comments. Anyway, which ones do you go to that you feel would be good places to harvest people (souls for the devil?)... If you desire, PM me and send me the links and I can evaluate and see if we put flyers under their windshield wipers! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choppinlt Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 WOW...it's been a long week for me, but what I am reading is just what these haggard eyes needed... A lot of GREAT conversation here... Ian, you are absolutely correct. Has anyone ever thought about the casualty rates in CM vs reality? CM is high fidelity in simulation, but the overall situation is NOT realistic. It's all or nothing, with no tomorrow. For me, I like the thought of an operational layer so I can create overwhelming odds in my favor to make up for my CM ineptitude. Christian, thank you! No apologies necessary, because you did your part! Lt Rocketman, nice to see those gold bars on you! Skwabie, we have moral support from BFC right now only. You are correct that there is NO CURRENT link between CO and CM. Simon21, no we have made a MASSIVE amount of noise all over...the most outspoken (and perhaps comfortable) are the CM guys since we kinda know each other. I think I got everyone...now I'm gonna go make sure I still have a wife! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
choppinlt Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 Whew, amazing what a good nights rest will do! Let's hit it men (and women??)! We are going to get another boost next Friday, because CO is going to get another piece in Rock, Paper, Shotgun! So I am still working away to increase visibility...and speaking of visuals, our programming team is working on some program visuals as well!! Work continues...Thanks again to everyone for all you are doing! -Matt 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted September 5, 2015 Author Share Posted September 5, 2015 Looking forward to it! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 5, 2015 Share Posted September 5, 2015 I've seen a lot of kickstarters. It seems like you are only trying to harvest people from the forum here as the pitch on kickstarter. well they are welcome to harvest me as the design of CO makes it an ideal tool for an op layer even if it never gets linked into CM. Consider it a targeted ad campaign focused on a group that has very much desired this product for years. Ahh but that I were independently wealthy..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 7, 2015 Share Posted September 7, 2015 you know guys, this is it. A lot of folks have expressed interest in an op layer to go with the game. Nothing worthwhile comes for free. If folks are on the fence about committing any cash until you see something more - well you may never see anything more if you don't show there is some kind of community interest. There are two weeks left in the kickstarter campaign. So far only 42 people have actually pledged anything to show the scope of interest. If something doesn't change two things will come out of this. 1- CO will fail as financially there doesn't seem to be enough interest to pay for it. These guys aren't a game company with a big hunk of starting capital. It is a group of people like us who have shown a willingness to take the time and effort to make what we have all been talking about for years. They need financial support to make it happen - that means us. 2- BF will note how little financial commitment there is from the community and be very wary of committing their resources. The next time someone comes along and wants to give it a go, BF will remember that the financial base for this seems to be about 42 people and they will promptly kick it to the curb and say no way. It is up to us. This is the best chance we have to get an op layer game that could potentially be integrated into CM - scratch that - This is the ONLY chance. I'd hope there are more than 42 of us who want it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SgtHatred Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 you know guys, this is it. A lot of folks have expressed interest in an op layer to go with the game. Nothing worthwhile comes for free. If folks are on the fence about committing any cash until you see something more - well you may never see anything more if you don't show there is some kind of community interest. There are two weeks left in the kickstarter campaign. So far only 42 people have actually pledged anything to show the scope of interest. If something doesn't change two things will come out of this. 1- CO will fail as financially there doesn't seem to be enough interest to pay for it. These guys aren't a game company with a big hunk of starting capital. It is a group of people like us who have shown a willingness to take the time and effort to make what we have all been talking about for years. They need financial support to make it happen - that means us. 2- BF will note how little financial commitment there is from the community and be very wary of committing their resources. The next time someone comes along and wants to give it a go, BF will remember that the financial base for this seems to be about 42 people and they will promptly kick it to the curb and say no way. It is up to us. This is the best chance we have to get an op layer game that could potentially be integrated into CM - scratch that - This is the ONLY chance. I'd hope there are more than 42 of us who want it. LOL. This is a terrible kickstarter attempt. Anyone who draws any further conclusions from this has seriously impaired judgement. It is a wishlist with an unrealistic timetable, cost, and no indication that anyone on the team has the capability to follow through. Sorry, but this needed a lot more time in the oven before asking for support. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 LOL. This is a terrible kickstarter attempt. Anyone who draws any further conclusions from this has seriously impaired judgement. It is a wishlist with an unrealistic timetable, cost, and no indication that anyone on the team has the capability to follow through. Sorry, but this needed a lot more time in the oven before asking for support. you have a better option on the table or just willing to accept having none? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vencini Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Maybe is a tactical problem ? It's first september, kids back to school and people have not enough money ? Maybe if they offer a beta game with an low price so we can test it ? Maybe things will go better... Oh! Any news, photos or videos about next battlefront title ? Best regards all of you and thanks for trying an strategic game for Combat Mission 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poesel Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 First: I have supported this campaign and I very much want it to happen. But: if I hadn't been involved/known about this beforehand I doubt I would have. A picture of a map and two lines of text - if that would be a sign of the effort that has been gone into that project... Take a look at other projects: a video from the devoloper explaining the why and what, preliminary set of rules to read, some pieces of artwork - something that makes you understand what this is and want it, too. Marketing wise a total failure, sorry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchenar Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 you have a better option on the table or just willing to accept having none? There's isn't a viable option on the table though, that's what he's saying. And he's right. 42 people pledging for this kickstarter isn't 42 people having an interest in an operational game, it's 42 people having poor judgement with their money. As it happens I think there probably isn't a viable market for a operational plug-in game to Combat Mission. It's niche of a niche market. But as far as operational wargames go I have Decisive Campaigns, Flashpoint Campaigns, Command Ops, a whole range of options open to me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 There's isn't a viable option on the table though, that's what he's saying. And he's right. 42 people pledging for this kickstarter isn't 42 people having an interest in an operational game, it's 42 people having poor judgement with their money. As it happens I think there probably isn't a viable market for a operational plug-in game to Combat Mission. It's niche of a niche market. But as far as operational wargames go I have Decisive Campaigns, Flashpoint Campaigns, Command Ops, a whole range of options open to me.Poor judgement? And how did you reach that conclusion? Have you been involved with the discussions? Have you spoken with Matt? Look I'll admit I think the "marketing" aspect of this has lacked direction and a real plan, but then we aren't talking about the actual sale of the game yet. What Matt and company have come up with is the basic design. They now need to take those concepts and program a game. Once they have at least an alpha version they can speak with BF about what kind of an interface CM has for them to tie into to actually build the game we all want, one that allows the import and export of the data to move from/to CM/CO. First and foremost Matt has been clear that the game will export and import data in a format that will ease design of a CM battle and provide a map overlay. None of the games you listed accomplish that. Command OP's isn't even a multi player game. So again, are we willing to take a chance on a team that has been meeting for months on this project and did have discussions with BF or not. If it shows poor judgement on my part to make a commitment to these guys to prove they are not just blowing time on something that has no potential sales so be it, it is my money to put where my mouth is. So far all I hear from the doubting Thomas crowd is conjecture on how they think the announcement and KS campaign was not done well. Okay yeah, so if that little issue is enough for you to not commit, fine. If I were Matt's team though that would tell me all I need to know. It is bad enough hearing all the griping here over a $10 upgrade. I am heartily sick of how cheap this community can be about paying programming teams for their labor. Yes cheap. Look if you want, there is. CO group where you can actually see the design discussion items. There is even an option to get a copy of the beta IF you commit a pledge of enough. But if you are looking for aspects of the game to be further along before you are willing to say "I'll back that" then you may never get anything at all. I am fully prepared that this effort may fail, but I am not investing my house. I threw in money that amounts to buying a game or two. I have bought plenty of games that turn out to be lemons, at least with this one I know the game will at a minimum be the best op layer tool out there. If it fails, well at least I helped give it a try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alchenar Posted September 8, 2015 Share Posted September 8, 2015 Well there's a big warning sign in itself - you have a team that's been 'meeting for months' and there's no code to show for it. That's not an onerous request - a barebones prototype for a game is something you'd expect someone to be able to knock up over a weekend. If after months and months of work you have nothing to show for it but a design document that could have been knocked up in an hour then the reasonably impartial observer has every right to question the competence of the team behind the project. I don't think this is something that could ever be suited to kickstarter or similar early-access programmes, but if it were then the point to ask people for money would be after showing Steve a prototype and getting the go ahead to try and get the thing to work with CM. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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