Old Timer With Some Questions

[wagtunes]

Been playing the CM series since BB. Couldn't play BO because it wouldn't work on my PC which I guess was too new at the time. Ironically, last year I tried the BN demo but that wouldn't run because my PC was too old and the graphics card didn't support it.

 

Well, I finally got a brand new PC (Windows 7 64 bit, I7 processor, 8 GB RAM) and the demo ran like a race car. Oh, and BB can now run super huge battles without a second delay in generating turns. It's really awesome.

 

Anyway, love the BN demo. CM is probably my all time favorite series and I've been playing video games since the 70s.

 

Now that that's over with, the questions.

 

1. Been a while since I bought BB so I don't remember. When I purchase, do I have to redownload the game or if I put in a serial number will that unlock everything in the demo?

 

2. Is there a CD version? I like to have the CD as a backup (which I have for BB) in case of a computer crash.

 

3. Anything radically different between BB and BN as far as the controls that I should know about? I have found screen moving a little different as well as the commands, which now have graphical buttons instead of just hot keys. Anything else I should know about?

 

Thanks. Love this game.

[Jim1954]

1. The demo is just that. A demo with a couple of battles. When you buy the game, you can purchase it either download only or hard disk and download. That is what I always do. You do need the access code to install and activate either way you buy.

2. See above.

3. BN and later compared to BB, well you still hit buttons to get things to happen but if you have downloaded the demo (free) and played that, you have the keyboard functions. There are a few things you can't do just from the demo, like quick battles but it is essentially the same. 

3. Operations that you found in BB will not be the same as in the CMx2 family of games. 

[wagtunes]

1. The demo is just that. A demo with a couple of battles. When you buy the game, you can purchase it either download only or hard disk and download. That is what I always do. You do need the access code to install and activate either way you buy.

2. See above.

3. BN and later compared to BB, well you still hit buttons to get things to happen but if you have downloaded the demo (free) and played that, you have the keyboard functions. There are a few things you can't do just from the demo, like quick battles but it is essentially the same. 

3. Operations that you found in BB will not be the same as in the CMx2 family of games. 

 

 

Thanks. One last question.

 

I noticed on the sales page that there are a number of purchase options ranging from $55 for what I guess is the base CM game to $105 for the Big Bundle. I understand that the latter essentially contains all the expansions but my question is this.

 

Are the expansions simply additional scenarios or is there functionality in the expansions that isn't included in the base game?

 

The reason I'm asking is because I'm not a big scenario player. I enjoy creating my own battles and campaigns with the editor. So if all I'm getting with the additional expansions is more battles and scenarios, I can probably just do with the base game.

[ASL Veteran]

The additional expansions (modules) add new vehicles, nations, TO&E, as well as scenarios and campaigns.  I think some of the modules require certain upgrades to work.  If you get the bundle then you would get all the content as well as the game upgrades, but I'm not exactly certain what is being sold at what level of upgrade so hopefully someone can clarify that for you.  If you only want to play around with basic American and German TO&Es though just the CMBN base game would be fine.  If you want German paratroops, SS, Commonwealth forces, etc. will need to get at least the commonwealth module.  There are also new formations and equipment in the Market Garden module even though the title is sort of operation specific.

[Mord]

There's a ton more units if you purchase the CW and MG modules and the Vehicle Pack compared to just BN. And I do mean a MASSIVE amount.

 

read from post #110 and onward;

 

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/93376-cmbo-cmbn-equipment-comparrison-chart/?p=1610592

 

Mord.

[wagtunes]

There's a ton more units if you purchase the CW and MG modules and the Vehicle Pack compared to just BN. And I do mean a MASSIVE amount.

 

read from post #110 and onward;

 

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/93376-cmbo-cmbn-equipment-comparrison-chart/?p=1610592

 

Mord.

 

So you recommend I get the Big Bundle or just a specific expansion?

[Mord]

ALL of it! There's just so much goodness, the CW Module alone adds TO&E for about five different organizations Brits/Poles/Canadians/Luft Field Div/Waffen SS.

 

 

 

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=289&Itemid=490

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=324&Itemid=559

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=333&Itemid=582

 

Add all that to this...

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=274&Itemid=457

 

 

Yeah, I say grab it all. There's lots of German stuff spread throughout the modules even if you might not be interested in the CW forces. But I think all the Allies are just as interesting as the US stuff, myself. It's nice having the options. Trust me, you won't regret the purchase.

 

 

 

Mord.

[wagtunes]

ALL of it! There's just so much goodness, the CW Module alone adds TO&E for about five different organizations Brits/Poles/Canadians/Luft Field Div/Waffen SS.

 

 

 

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=289&Itemid=490

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=324&Itemid=559

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=333&Itemid=582

 

Add all that to this...

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=274&Itemid=457

 

 

Yeah, I say grab it all. There's lots of German stuff spread throughout the modules even if you might not be interested in the CW forces. But I think all the Allies are just as interesting as the US stuff, myself. It's nice having the options. Trust me, you won't regret the purchase.

 

 

 

Mord.

 

Thank you very much. Really appreciate the help.

 

This is an amazing game isn't it. 

[Pak40]

 

The reason I'm asking is because I'm not a big scenario player. I enjoy creating my own battles and campaigns with the editor. So if all I'm getting with the additional expansions is more battles and scenarios, I can probably just do with the base game.

 

just a bit of fair warning, creating your own battles and campaigns is a lot more complex than in the CMx1 series. You really need to play a bit to understand how the system works. Also, I think you'll find playing scenarios a bit more rewarding than the old system because each one can contain multiple AI plans. This means you can play the same battle a second time and get a totally different strategy from the computer AI. The old CMx1 battles by comparison were quite predictable, i.e. the enemy AI always would attack directly towards the big value objectives.

[wagtunes]

just a bit of fair warning, creating your own battles and campaigns is a lot more complex than in the CMx1 series. You really need to play a bit to understand how the system works. Also, I think you'll find playing scenarios a bit more rewarding than the old system because each one can contain multiple AI plans. This means you can play the same battle a second time and get a totally different strategy from the computer AI. The old CMx1 battles by comparison were quite predictable, i.e. the enemy AI always would attack directly towards the big value objectives.

 

Thanks. That's good to know. Just more wonderful challenges to keep me busy for hours on end.

 

(57 going on 15 LOL)

[Mord]

Thank you very much. Really appreciate the help.

 

This is an amazing game isn't it. 

 

LOL. I've been here going on 15 years and modding CMX2 for 8, that's gotta say something. But yeah, there is a ton of depth and fun.

 

Here's something I wrote recently;

 

"The map making portion of the editor is one of the easiest editors in gaming. Learning to create AI plans and the like is a steeper curve but you could set up a player attack vs AI defense scenario with very little difficulty. Some of the coolest experiences I have had in the game was when I made some stupid little throwaway maps with a few units to test out sound mods I was making. In reality the game provides the tools for near infinite battles."

 

 

"The amount of enjoyment you can derive from CM is deep and caters to all types (believe me we have guys here that do one, some, or all of these things); playing the scenarios and campaigns, down loading and playing user made scenario/campaigns, HtH play, loading up armor and units in the editor and checking them out, learning about all the armor and units, creating your own mods, loading and testing mods out you've down loaded to get your game looking just right, setting up little situations to test out weapons and vehicles or small tactical situations, designing scenarios/campaigns, designing historically researched scenarios/campaigns, test playing scenarios/campaigns for their authors or screwing around in the editor making maps. The beauty is you can just play or combine a bunch of these, either way you will have great experience with Combat Mission."

 

I'd forgotten to mention writing AARs and making movies as well.

 

One of the features I really dig is the Damage Report tab, when one of your tanks/vehicles gets hit you can click it and see if any of your subsystems were damaged or knocked out. There is so much going on in this game that you'll have a blast just learning about everything.

 

Mord.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Mord

[womble]

There is a CD version, but if you're "forrin" (to the US), shipping charges and possibly customs levies will add a significant whack to the price you pay. And there are many other ways of getting a backup

 

My memories of BB are woolly, but there are features in CMx2 that weren't, I think, present in CMx1, and features not included in CMx2 which were in x1. The "Shoot and scoot" order is an example of the latter, and I think "target orders at intermediate waypoints" (which lets you approximate the deprecated "shoot and scoot" order) is an example of the former. One thing that has had x1 stalwarts weeping and raging is the transition between the two games. It's important to remember that they are different games and work at different scales and resolutions: terrain is handled completely differently; infantry squad/team firepower is very different; the AI is very different; the map environment is very much more detailed, even below the additional "resolution" provided by the smaller AS.

 

Just things to bear in mind while you're making the transition.

[wagtunes]

LOL. I've been here going on 15 years and modding CMX2 for 8, that's gotta say something. But yeah, there is a ton of depth and fun.

 

Here's something I wrote recently;

 

"The map making portion of the editor is one of the easiest editors in gaming. Learning to create AI plans and the like is a steeper curve but you could set up a player attack vs AI defense scenario with very little difficulty. Some of the coolest experiences I have had in the game was when I made some stupid little throwaway maps with a few units to test out sound mods I was making. In reality the game provides the tools for near infinite battles."

 

 

"The amount of enjoyment you can derive from CM is deep and caters to all types (believe me we have guys here that do one, some, or all of these things); playing the scenarios and campaigns, down loading and playing user made scenario/campaigns, HtH play, loading up armor and units in the editor and checking them out, learning about all the armor and units, creating your own mods, loading and testing mods out you've down loaded to get your game looking just right, setting up little situations to test out weapons and vehicles or small tactical situations, designing scenarios/campaigns, designing historically researched scenarios/campaigns, test playing scenarios/campaigns for their authors or screwing around in the editor making maps. The beauty is you can just play or combine a bunch of these, either way you will have great experience with Combat Mission."

 

I'd forgotten to mention writing AARs and making movies as well.

 

One of the features I really dig is the Damage Report tab, when one of your tanks/vehicles gets hit you can click it and see if any of your subsystems were damaged or knocked out. There is so much going on in this game that you'll have a blast just learning about everything.

 

Mord.

 

While I haven't created my own mods for BB, I've created hundreds of maps and battles/campaigns. I see the map editor in BN is even more detailed and I love it.

 

 

 

There is a CD version, but if you're "forrin" (to the US), shipping charges and possibly customs levies will add a significant whack to the price you pay. And there are many other ways of getting a backup

 

My memories of BB are woolly, but there are features in CMx2 that weren't, I think, present in CMx1, and features not included in CMx2 which were in x1. The "Shoot and scoot" order is an example of the latter, and I think "target orders at intermediate waypoints" (which lets you approximate the deprecated "shoot and scoot" order) is an example of the former. One thing that has had x1 stalwarts weeping and raging is the transition between the two games. It's important to remember that they are different games and work at different scales and resolutions: terrain is handled completely differently; infantry squad/team firepower is very different; the AI is very different; the map environment is very much more detailed, even below the additional "resolution" provided by the smaller AS.

 

Just things to bear in mind while you're making the transition.

 

One thing I absolutely love in BN is how casualties are left behind and not dragged along with the unit. It is a much more realistic game visually. So whatever may have been "dropped" from BB to BN probably isn't going to bother me much, if at all as I am really loving what I see here.

 

I am in the US so I won't be hit with any extra taxes or anything like that. But I did notice on the sales page for the Big Bundle that it says $135, scratched out and then $105 (save $30) but then when I click on the drop down box to order, it says $135 and $145 for the download and CD.

 

Is the discount applied at checkout?

[Sublime]

id just get the download. bfc does lifetime downloads now just keep good record of the info. and plus you could find a way of having a physical backup. id agree with the others if you get BN id get it all or at least the cw expansion because it really felt like it doubled the game. just as i wouldnt tell many to buy fi alone but with gustav line its a fantastic choice. imo GL was probablynthe biggest module of all we had it completely changed FI adding almost a year many CW and other nationalities winter etc.

[wagtunes]

id just get the download. bfc does lifetime downloads now just keep good record of the info. and plus you could find a way of having a physical backup. id agree with the others if you get BN id get it all or at least the cw expansion because it really felt like it doubled the game. just as i wouldnt tell many to buy fi alone but with gustav line its a fantastic choice. imo GL was probablynthe biggest module of all we had it completely changed FI adding almost a year many CW and other nationalities winter etc.

 

Thank you. Much appreciated.

 

You know, I was just looking at my profile and on the 28th of this month it will be 10 years since I started playing CM.

 

I can't believe it's been that long.

[wagtunes]

ALL of it! There's just so much goodness, the CW Module alone adds TO&E for about five different organizations Brits/Poles/Canadians/Luft Field Div/Waffen SS.

 

 

 

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=289&Itemid=490

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=324&Itemid=559

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=333&Itemid=582

 

Add all that to this...

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=274&Itemid=457

 

 

Yeah, I say grab it all. There's lots of German stuff spread throughout the modules even if you might not be interested in the CW forces. But I think all the Allies are just as interesting as the US stuff, myself. It's nice having the options. Trust me, you won't regret the purchase.

 

 

 

Mord.

 

Just wanted to come back and let you know that I just ordered the whole shootin match.

 

Downloading now on my 122 Mbps connection. LOL. Shouldn't take long at all.

 

Thanks for all your help.

[Mord]

No worries, you're welcome.

 

Awesome! You are gonna have a blast!  After you play some, pop in and tell us about your experience.

 

Don't hesitate to ask questions if you can't figure something out, we'll do our best to help. There's a ton of info here.

 

BTW...once you get acclimated there is a whole world of killer mods out there.

 

http://cmmods.greenasjade.net/mods?game_type=5&show_all=true

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=select&id=41

 

 

Mord.

[wagtunes]

No worries, you're welcome.

 

Awesome! You are gonna have a blast!  After you play some, pop in and tell us about your experience.

 

Don't hesitate to ask questions if you can't figure something out, we'll do our best to help. There's a ton of info here.

 

BTW...once you get acclimated there is a whole world of killer mods out there.

 

http://cmmods.greenasjade.net/mods?game_type=5&show_all=true

 

http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=select&id=41

 

 

Mord.

 

Well, I've run into my first WTF moment. I understand that somebody said the map editor is different from CMBB but something is going on that I don't know if it's a bug or I'm doing something wrong.

 

I just created a very small map (about 208 meters square) just to make sure I understood the basics. I went through everything including the Mission where you setup your friendly edges for allied and axis. I set allied to E and axis to W.

 

I then chose just a few units to make sure they were placed at opposite ends of the map.

 

3 things.

 

1) Not all my units were placed.

 

2) Some of the axis units were placed on the same side of the map as the allied. Not all, but one vehicle in particular.

 

3) The units that were placed were facing N and not W as I expected them to be.

 

 

I can try going through the steps and report each one (will take some time to document) but is there anything off the top of your head that would cause this to happen?

 

Is there a way to load up a stock map and scenario to see how units were placed?

 

All the years I've played CMBB, I shouldn't be having this much trouble with the map editor. Everything else as far as building and brush placement is working fine. But deployment (yes, I did find the deploy commands for each) seems to be not quite right.

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

[ASL Veteran]

Well, I've run into my first WTF moment. I understand that somebody said the map editor is different from CMBB but something is going on that I don't know if it's a bug or I'm doing something wrong.

 

I just created a very small map (about 208 meters square) just to make sure I understood the basics. I went through everything including the Mission where you setup your friendly edges for allied and axis. I set allied to E and axis to W.

 

I then chose just a few units to make sure they were placed at opposite ends of the map.

 

3 things.

 

1) Not all my units were placed.

 

2) Some of the axis units were placed on the same side of the map as the allied. Not all, but one vehicle in particular.

 

3) The units that were placed were facing N and not W as I expected them to be.

 

 

I can try going through the steps and report each one (will take some time to document) but is there anything off the top of your head that would cause this to happen?

 

Is there a way to load up a stock map and scenario to see how units were placed?

 

All the years I've played CMBB, I shouldn't be having this much trouble with the map editor. Everything else as far as building and brush placement is working fine. But deployment (yes, I did find the deploy commands for each) seems to be not quite right.

 

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

The default locations where the units show up is pretty much irrelevant when you first add them to the scenario.  You can only see each side's units when you are in the 'deploy' section of the editor for that particular side and typically the truppen are simply lined up along one side or another.  Frequently both allied and axis troops are lined up on the same side, but that doesn't really matter since you only see the side you are deploying when you are in that side's deploy section in the editor.  It might put something on the opposite side of the map if there isn't enough room to line them all up the way it wants to on one side or the other, but once again, where the units line up is functionally irrelevant since you have to manually deploy them anyway. 

 

Just so you know, I've been using the editor a lot (I mean almost daily) for several years and I haven't encountered any editor bugs, so if you are confused with something or having difficulty it is almost a guarantee that it is because you aren't fully familiar with the new editor yet.

 

Oh, and one last thing - I do believe that there is a PDF file that comes with your game purchase that was created by Jon S and explains in some detail how to go about creating a scenario.  You might want to peruse that before continuing.

Edited June 5, 2015 by ASL Veteran

[wagtunes]

The default locations where the units show up is pretty much irrelevant when you first add them to the scenario.  You can only see each side's units when you are in the 'deploy' section of the editor for that particular side and typically the truppen are simply lined up along one side or another.  Frequently both allied and axis troops are lined up on the same side, but that doesn't really matter since you only see the side you are deploying when you are in that side's deploy section in the editor.  It might put something on the opposite side of the map if there isn't enough room to line them all up the way it wants to on one side or the other, but once again, where the units line up is functionally irrelevant since you have to manually deploy them anyway. 

 

Just so you know, I've been using the editor a lot (I mean almost daily) for several years and I haven't encountered any editor bugs, so if you are confused with something or having difficulty it is almost a guarantee that it is because you aren't fully familiar with the new editor yet.

 

Oh, and one last thing - I do believe that there is a PDF file that comes with your game purchase that was created by Jon S and explains in some detail how to go about creating a scenario.  You might want to peruse that before continuing.

 

Thanks. I will read the PDF but I do have one last question. Is there a way to rotate the troop so that it's pointing in the direction you want when the scenario starts? There was a rotate hot key in CMBB but I don't see one here. Granted, the whole command structure is totally different so I'm probably just missing it.

 

Have no doubt this is all user error or PEBKAC. LOL

[Pete Wenman]

When deploying units in the editor in the 3d mode, various commands will be active, these include move , which unsurprisingly allows you to move a unit, and face which alters the facing of the unit. These are the most commonly used but others will be available in some instances.

 

P

[wagtunes]

When deploying units in the editor in the 3d mode, various commands will be active, these include move , which unsurprisingly allows you to move a unit, and face which alters the facing of the unit. These are the most commonly used but others will be available in some instances.

 

P

 

Thanks. I finally did find that and suddenly all the lights came on.

 

The missing units? It's my eyes. The graphics are much different from CMBB and you really have to look at some of the smaller units. It will take some time for me to get used to the new look, which I love. It's just a bit of a learning curve.

 

For now, I should be good to go.

 

PS - This editor is amazing. So much more powerful than CMBB and the terrain height level tool is superb.

[Pete Wenman]

 

 

PS - This editor is amazing. So much more powerful than CMBB and the terrain height level tool is superb.

 

Yes it is  - you should see what I'm building with it currently !

 

P

[IronCat60]

Hello there, glad your enjoying the game!

 

To answer your question, just "left click" with the mouse button to select the unit and then press the "G" key on the key board. A small circular icon will appear with a crosshair in it and a tick mark about 10 o'clock on its edge. Now you can move the icon with the mouse in the direction you want unit to face and then "left click" the mouse to get it to respond to your command. The tick mark has nothing to do with lining up the unit. It is just part of the graphics.

 

A trick to getting a unit to face a desired direction is to put the icon out aways from the unit and line the icon up on a distant spot then "left clicking". This prevents the unit from whipping around to a undesired facing because your point of view might be different from what the unit is using as reference. 

 

This command is called the "Face Command" which is also found in the Combat Mode (Target, Target Light, etc) of the Command Panel. The M, C, S, A selection buttons on the Comand Panel. The one labled "C" brings up the entire Combat Mode selection, but just using the "G" key is a short-cut and brings up the mode also.  

 

Also just a side note. Congratualtions on your purchase! You will not be disappointed with your purchase. As a actual combat veteran I can say this game is the closest thing to real combat that I have ever seen. As a amature historian and WW2 fan, this is living history. To watch an accurately protrayed Panther roll out of a wood line and rotate the turret towards your troops is just spectacular. Just to have your troops react intelligently to changing conditions is a amazing part of the game also.

 

Here is a link to Armchair General series of how-to videos to help you maximize your tactical skills in Combat Mission: Battle for Normandy. Lt. Col. (ret) Jeffrey Paulding, longtime gaming editor for Armchair General magazine, draws upon his 11 years as an active-duty infantry officer in the U.S. Army and a quarter-century of experience with computer wargames to show you how it's done.    

 

As a 20 year Infantry NCO, I can say this guy is good and teaches the right way to do things. In this game as in real life you have to take your objectives. But treating your troops (pixel-truppen) as cannon fodder will lead to defeat. Just as in real life conservation of forces during the mission pays dividends in having troops to maintain the effort and most important of all troop morale.

 

That is one of the aspects of this game that fascinates me. The morale plus command and control aspect. As a Platoon Sergeant, "where the rubber meets the road" command level, morale and command-control is all important. With out it you just have a uncontroled mob of nervous and angry young men with potentional but they will not respond to your commands to shoot or doing anything constructive enmass. It is these factors that the game strives to represent quite well.

 

Respectfully,

Christopher   Mech.Gato

[wagtunes]

@Christopher

 

Thank you so much. This is all great stuff. I am getting a hang of the editor though I'm having some minor problems with reinforcements, trying to assign more than one squad to one reinforcement box, for lack of a better term. I'm not sure it's possible or if it's just more user error, which it probably is. Game is much different from CMBB as I am finding out.

 

Thank you and everybody else for all your help. You guys are the best.