Old Timer With Some Questions

[ASL Veteran]

@Christopher

 

Thank you so much. This is all great stuff. I am getting a hang of the editor though I'm having some minor problems with reinforcements, trying to assign more than one squad to one reinforcement box, for lack of a better term. I'm not sure it's possible or if it's just more user error, which it probably is. Game is much different from CMBB as I am finding out.

 

Thank you and everybody else for all your help. You guys are the best.

Reinforcements can be tricky because you probably don't want to try assigning the reinforcements to the various groups while in the Reinforcement tab.  When you are in the normal unit purchasing part of the editor you just assign a number between one and seven to each squad, platoon, company, whatever by highlighting that particular unit and pressing one, two, etc. on your keyboard.  You should then see that number appear on the unit and that will tell the game to assign that unit to that reinforcement group.  The only thing you do in the actual reinforcement tab is name the reinforcement group (ie A company, or The Thunderbolts or whatever) and tell the game what time they appear.  You place reinforcements on the map in the editor just like any other units but when you go to play the scenario the reinforcements will disappear from the map and reappear at the appropriate time in the exact spot that you placed them.

[wagtunes]

Reinforcements can be tricky because you probably don't want to try assigning the reinforcements to the various groups while in the Reinforcement tab.  When you are in the normal unit purchasing part of the editor you just assign a number between one and seven to each squad, platoon, company, whatever by highlighting that particular unit and pressing one, two, etc. on your keyboard.  You should then see that number appear on the unit and that will tell the game to assign that unit to that reinforcement group.  The only thing you do in the actual reinforcement tab is name the reinforcement group (ie A company, or The Thunderbolts or whatever) and tell the game what time they appear.  You place reinforcements on the map in the editor just like any other units but when you go to play the scenario the reinforcements will disappear from the map and reappear at the appropriate time in the exact spot that you placed them.

 

Thanks. Yeah, I'm most likely doing something wrong. I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually.

[Mord]

 

PS - This editor is amazing. So much more powerful than CMBB and the terrain height level tool is superb.

 

Yeah, the fidelity you can achieve when laying terrain is so far beyond what CMBB could offer. The smaller tiles and the way textures bleed into each other has remarkable payoff visually. You can create a much more natural feel in CMX2 compared to the tile plopping effect that CMX1 had. And the ability to paint topo lines is great, makes it very easy to get smooth transitions into the elevations. Having an 8X8 tiles helps as well, the old tiles were 20x20!

 

Wag man, once you get a couple scenarios behind you you'll have it down. This is the absolute best place to get advice, there are a lot of talented and experienced designers here. The great thing about the editor is how much more control it gives you compared to CMX1. Since they added triggers it's really opened up the possibilities. Yeah, it comes with a steeper learning curve (much steeper compared to CMX1) but the benefits are worth it.

 

So, once you get the hang of scenario creation are we gonna see your efforts posted on the Repos? And I noticed you said you dug playing CMBB, are you planning on delving into the other WWII time frames down the road? LOL.

 

Oh and something else to bear in mind (in case you didn't already know) CMBN isn't locked in a stasis. When you bought CMBB and it had its last patch that was it, anything new that was added to CMAK stayed in CMAK. Not so, here. So, if new scenario design tools come along in a future title, CMBN and the other titles will benefit with an inexpensive upgrade.

 

Mord.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Mord

[wagtunes]

Yeah, the fidelity you can achieve when laying terrain is so far beyond what CMBB could offer. The smaller tiles and the way textures bleed into each other has remarkable payoff visually. You can create a much more natural feel in CMX2 compared to the tile plopping effect that CMX1 had. And the ability to paint topo lines is great, makes it very easy to get smooth transitions into the elevations. Having an 8X8 tiles helps as well, the old tiles were 20x20!

 

Wag man, once you get a couple scenarios behind you you'll have it down. This is the absolute best place to get advice, there are a lot of talented and experienced designers here. The great thing about the editor is how much more control it gives you compared to CMX1. Since they added triggers it's really opened up the possibilities. Yeah, it comes with a steeper learning curve (much steeper compared to CMX1) but the benefits are worth it.

 

So, once you get the hang of scenario creation are we gonna see your efforts posted on the Repos? And I noticed you said you dug playing CMBB, are you planning on delving into the other WWII time frames down the road? LOL.

 

Oh and something else to bear in mind (in case you didn't already know) CMBN isn't locked in a stasis. When you bought CMBB and it had its last patch that was it, anything new that was added to CMAK stayed in CMAK. Not so, here. So, if new scenario design tools come along in a future title, CMBN and the other titles will benefit with an inexpensive upgrade.

 

Mord.

 

Your enthusiasm for this game is wonderful. I share it totally. Finally did get the scenario editor down after a lot of reading and scrapping and hair pulling but I nailed it and finished my first relatively small battle and tested it. Played very well and gives both sides a fighting chance. In fact, it was a real nail biter for me, losing 3 of my 4 tanks. But one managed to sneak through the artilary fire and lead my troops to victory ending in the Axis surrender of their town.

 

Something I have noticed about casualty figures compared to CMBB. In the latter, usually wounded outnumbered killed. Now it seems it's reversed. I'll keep testing with other scenarios (mine and the stock ones) but my gut tells me that this is an actual change in the logistics of the game. If I'm right, why it was done is a mystery to me. More realistic? Don't know. Didn't study WWII casualty figures to be able to answer that. But I suspect this is the case.

 

Will have more as time goes by. Like you said, steep learning curve and it's almost like I'm starting all over in spite of playing CM since 2005.

[Mord]

Thanks! You should've seen me the day they announced the upgrade system. I did cartwheels for a week! But as a whole CMX2 was just about everything I wished for when I played CMBO and I get pretty pumped when I am telling new people about it. Coming from CMX1 you understand and are also open to the new engine (a lot of CMX1 players weren't at all) so it gets me excited for you.

 

As far as the KIA to WIA equations...yeah, there have been some pretty huge threads on that issue. I never really paid much attention though. However, one thing occurred to me just now (don't know if it was ever broached before), in CMBN your guys can be wounded (and still move and fight), severely wounded (incapacitated), or dead—all are physically represented by a graphic. Now, the interesting thing (and I doubt this was in CMX1) lightly wounded guys can go from light to severe, and severe guys can be killed by stray rounds and explosions. I watched a dude go from light red (severe wounds) to dark red (dead) during a mortar attack once. It blew me away 'cause I didn't know their states weren't set in stone once they could no longer function. So, that could help push KIAs tallies up because more deaths can be logged during battle as opposed to just an equation like I think CMX1 used at the end of the game.

 

Here's a newer thread on the subject; http://community.battlefront.com/topic/119190-question-on-casualties-inflictedcaused-kiawia/?p=1601351

 

Older one; http://community.battlefront.com/topic/106540-casualties-wounded-to-dead/?hl=+kias%20+wias

 

There's probably more.

 

 

 

Mord.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Mord

[PanzerMike]

Yes it is  - you should see what I'm building with it currently !

 

P

True that, Pete!

[MOS:96B2P]

<Snip>

Now, the interesting thing (and I doubt this was in CMX1) lightly wounded guys can go from light to severe, and severe guys can be killed by stray rounds and explosions. I watched a dude go from light red (severe wounds) to dark red (dead) during a mortar attack once. It blew me away 'cause I didn't know their states weren't set in stone once they could no longer function. <Snip>

 

It is another cool thing about the game that incapacitated wounded (light red) can change to KIA (dark red).  This is one of the reasons I think it is worthwhile to try to get buddy aid to all the wounded if possible.  Once buddy aid is successful the incapacitated wounded troop is evacuated (disappeared) from the map and his status is locked in at incapacitated.  One less potential KIA on the AAR screen.  

 

It also helps to make the game more realistic.  In RL a commander must take the time and resources to deal with casualties.  Every once in awhile I will have a tiny battle within the larger battle as I try to get buddy aid to wounded troops.  And even if the troop is KIA buddy aid still recovers ammo and certain equipment.  Lots of cool stuff with this game.     

[wagtunes]

It is another cool thing about the game that incapacitated wounded (light red) can change to KIA (dark red).  This is one of the reasons I think it is worthwhile to try to get buddy aid to all the wounded if possible.  Once buddy aid is successful the incapacitated wounded troop is evacuated (disappeared) from the map and his status is locked in at incapacitated.  One less potential KIA on the AAR screen.  

 

It also helps to make the game more realistic.  In RL a commander must take the time and resources to deal with casualties.  Every once in awhile I will have a tiny battle within the larger battle as I try to get buddy aid to wounded troops.  And even if the troop is KIA buddy aid still recovers ammo and certain equipment.  Lots of cool stuff with this game.     

 

Thank you both. I did not realize all these things were added to the game.

 

Wow...now I'm even more intrigued than ever. I guess it's time for me to tear the manual apart and see exactly what has been changed and how much more there is that I can do with the new engine.

 

I expect this to be a crap ton of fun.

[Mord]

It also helps to make the game more realistic.  In RL a commander must take the time and resources to deal with casualties.  Every once in awhile I will have a tiny battle within the larger battle as I try to get buddy aid to wounded troops.  And even if the troop is KIA buddy aid still recovers ammo and certain equipment.  Lots of cool stuff with this game.     

 

 

Oh definitely, some of those BA moments can end up being stand out vignettes in a battle. I have seen a lot of cool stuff centered around BA in AARs and the like, whether it be because of altruism or because dudes were trying to scrounge a zook or 'shrek.

 

And good point on the evac equation. It's an incentive to inject a little humanity into the situation and help counteract that blood thirsty indifference once the lead gets hot and heavy.

 

 

Thank you both. I did not realize all these things were added to the game.

 

Wow...now I'm even more intrigued than ever. I guess it's time for me to tear the manual apart and see exactly what has been changed and how much more there is that I can do with the new engine.

 

I expect this to be a crap ton of fun.

 

Two even...plus a bucket load.

 

There's quite a few hidden gems that people might not realize right off the bat. An example would be that the ground conditions can go from dry to muddy, weather permitting. I tested it and it happened. During a game you click the menu tab and then the conditions tab, the ground status will change once it has been raining long enough.

 

And something cool that was changed—that always irked me in CMX1—was that your leaders were always the last to die when a unit was being worn down. In CMBN you can change leaders and names as quickly as the enemy can kill them. And their soft factor abilities change as well. Seems trivial but it's very engaging to see Sgt. Jones take over when Lt. Baker catches one through the eye, compared to every officer/leader being Custer at the Little Big Horn.

 

 

Mord.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Mord

[womble]

 

 In CMBN you can change leaders and names as quickly as the enemy can kill them. And their soft factor abilities change as well. Seems trivial but it's very engaging to see Sgt. Jones take over when Lt. Baker catches one through the eye, compared to every officer/leader being Custer at the Little Big Horn.

 

 

And just for the sake of additional cool interest, the soft factors change because every individual trooper has their own soft factors. Some of the factors for an element are the "average" (Experience, Motivation/Morale, Fatigue state), the others are the "currently active individual", which you see most often in Leadership because the leadership of split teams can be different to the leadership of the intact squad.

[wagtunes]

Oh definitely, some of those BA moments can end up being stand out vignettes in a battle. I have seen a lot of cool stuff centered around BA in AARs and the like, whether it be because of altruism or because dudes were trying to scrounge a zook or 'shrek.

 

And good point on the evac equation. It's an incentive to inject a little humanity into the situation and help counteract that blood thirsty indifference once the lead gets hot and heavy.

 

 

 

Two even...plus a bucket load.

 

There's quite a few hidden gems that people might not realize right off the bat. An example would be that the ground conditions can go from dry to muddy, weather permitting. I tested it and it happened. During a game you click the menu tab and then the conditions tab, the ground status will change once it has been raining long enough.

 

And something cool that was changed—that always irked me in CMX1—was that your leaders were always the last to die when a unit was being worn down. In CMBN you can change leaders and names as quickly as the enemy can kill them. And their soft factor abilities change as well. Seems trivial but it's very engaging to see Sgt. Jones take over when Lt. Baker catches one through the eye, compared to every officer/leader being Custer at the Little Big Horn.

 

 

Mord.

 

 

And just for the sake of additional cool interest, the soft factors change because every individual trooper has their own soft factors. Some of the factors for an element are the "average" (Experience, Motivation/Morale, Fatigue state), the others are the "currently active individual", which you see most often in Leadership because the leadership of split teams can be different to the leadership of the intact squad.

 

I'm going to assume all the above becomes really super cool when you go to split squads.

 

Okay so where's the "I'm really super excited" smiley? I don't see one. lol

[IronCat60]

As Mord mentioned about people stepping up to take command when a leader is killed the same goes for the heavy crew served weapons in this game. Just becausethe gunner gets waxed it doesn't mean the entire gun crew goes stupid on you and you have a useless hunk of steel sitting there. Now though I will confess that with the two man teams on the medium machine gun if the gunner gets killed then the gun is out of action. Too bad we couldn't just take a guy off of the nearest squad the gun is working with and get a full crew so one can carry the gun and the other can carry the tripod and ammo box. In real combat you always keep the the automatic support weapons operational as they provide cover for maneuver and the most casualities

[Mord]

I'm going to assume all the above becomes really super cool when you go to split squads.

 

Okay so where's the "I'm really super excited" smiley? I don't see one. lol

 

 

Yep.

 

 

 

 

And those guys will change if any of them are heavily wounded or killed—blows the way CMX1 handled it out of the water.

 

Mord.

Edited June 7, 2015 by Mord

[wagtunes]

Yep.

 

 

 

 

And those guys will change if any of them are heavily wounded or killed—blows the way CMX1 handled it out of the water.

 

Mord.

 

Fascinating to see how this series has progressed and improved over the years. I give Battlefront a lot of credit for this game. IMO, it is far superior to every other WWII simulation out there.

[IronCat60]

P.S. I am glad to hear you are enjoying the game! The more that you become familiar with the game and play it you will realize how much thought and detail went into this production. My real point of this addendum is don't be afraid to ask questions. The ony stupid question is the one you don't ask.

 

Now for a side note on how much detail went into this game. In the Red Thunder forum one member talks about how a T-34 was nose down in a ditch or shell hole, became disabled and the crew jumped out. Now with the drivers hatch open on the front slope of the tank, a German M.G. opened up on the tank and a few rounds went into the open hatch and set off the internal ammo destroying the tank! How's that for realisim!

 

Also if you ever desire to try taking on a live opponent please feel free to contact me here. It would be my first time playing a live person also.

 

Christopher

Mech.Gato

Edited June 7, 2015 by mech.gato

[wagtunes]

P.S. I am glad to hear you are enjoying the game! The more that you become familiar with the game and play it you will realize how much thought and detail went into this production. My real point of this addendum is don't be afraid to ask questions. The ony stupid question is the one you don't ask.

 

Now for a side note on how much detail went into this game. In the Red Thunder forum one member talks about how a T-34 was nose down in a ditch or shell hole, became disabled and the crew jumped out. Now with the drivers hatch open on the front slope of the tank, a German M.G. opened up on the tank and a few rounds went into the open hatch and set off the internal ammo destroying the tank! How's that for realisim!

 

Also if you ever desire to try taking on a live opponent please feel free to contact me here. It would be my first time playing a live person also.

 

Christopher

Mech.Gato

 

Thanks for the offer. I'm not quite sure I'm ready for that yet. I am by no means an expert at this game, old version or new. I just play it because I love it and always find it challenging even against the AI, which might be a good thing as I know a lot of people are so good at this that the AI presents no challenge at all.

But if I ever think I'm up to it, I'll definitely give you a buzz.

[Mord]

I just thought of another thing you might find interesting and it can have a major impact in a fire fight. In CMX1 your 12 man squad could only target one enemy unit at a time no matter what the situation. You could split a squad but that would still only allow fire on a second position. What if you had three units approaching your position? Or four? Well in CMBN technically a 12 man squad could target 12 different enemy units! You can't manually make them do it but say you don't issue any target orders for a turn and within that 60 seconds a half track approaches on the right, a partial squad is sneaking up the middle, and a machine gun crew jumps into LOS on your left. Well, if the dudes in your squad have eyes on all of them and are able to target them most of the time they will. One riflemen could potentially pin down that MG crew while three take care of the middle, and your tube guy (zook) knocks off a round at the HT. Meanwhile the other seven might not be able to see the enemy or have a line of fire to them, or maybe two guys are cowering because there is incoming. Pretty cool, huh?

 

Here's an example; http://www.battlefront.com/images/stories/CMBN/Gall2/cm-normandy-debug-27.jpg

 

Mord.

 

P.S. Check this out you can really see how far we've come;

Edited June 7, 2015 by Mord

[wagtunes]

I just thought of another thing you might find interesting and it can have a major impact in a fire fight. In CMX1 your 12 man squad could only target one enemy unit at a time no matter what the situation. You could split a squad but that would still only allow fire on a second position. What if you had three units approaching your position? Or four? Well in CMBN technically a 12 man squad could target 12 different enemy units! You can't manually make them do it but say you don't issue any target orders for a turn and within that 60 seconds a half track approaches on the right, a partial squad is sneaking up the middle, and a machine gun crew jumps into LOS on your left. Well, if the dudes in your squad have eyes on all of them and are able to target them most of the time they will. One riflemen could potentially pin down that MG crew while three take care of the middle, and your tube guy (zook) knocks off a round at the HT. Meanwhile the other seven might not be able to see the enemy or have a line of fire to them, or maybe two guys are cowering because there is incoming. Pretty cool, huh?

 

Here's an example; http://www.battlefront.com/images/stories/CMBN/Gall2/cm-normandy-debug-27.jpg

 

Mord.

 

P.S. Check this out you can really see how far we've come;

 

Okay, that is just awesome. Thanks for the tip.

[IronCat60]

Wow Mord, great post. Man does that bring back memories. CMBO still a classic game.

 

Christopher

Mech.Gato

[Mord]

Yeah, Sergei made that a few years back. He did a good job. I'd love to see him update it now that we have CW forces. But it really does shock your senses to see where we started and where we are. LOL. I can remember day dreaming all the time that CMBO/X1 would one day look like CMX2. There almost wasn't a day that went by, for three years, that I did not start CMBO up at least once per day to do something involving it, either comparing mods, researching something, or playing a battle.

 

As great as all those first gen CMs were, I am soooo happy we are where we are now. I wouldn't want to go back, though I'd love to be 15 years younger.

 

Mord.