hobo Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Mortars landing on the ATG. I wonder who has LOS on it that can call these in? My guess is the contacts just below circle 1 is a HQ with the mortar crew tucked in the open space behind them. If I am right, you really need to get some fire in to that spot. If you wait, you die. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Could be any of those icons around that area. Or a direct lay mission from an unidentified tentative contact. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MethodGamer Posted May 29, 2015 Author Share Posted May 29, 2015 Minute 22 Orders Just a few orders this turn: The ATG and its ammo team were given hide orders The 'schreck team and the rifle team near by were ordered to the east, out of the area of the mortar rounds The team just north-west of "3" was ordered south near the hedge row north of the road, to support 3. And that's about it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vencini Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 This image is from Buying the farm. If soldiers are facing the Sun, do they have more spotting difficulties ? And, the other way : Do defenders have some advantage ? It's blinding represented in game ? Thanks for answers and regards 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 No. Differential lighting (shadow, dazzling) isn't modelled. I see the AI picked the same defensive plan against you as it did when I took it on in this one. In the spirit of offering advice on how to play that this thread was created in, I'll suggest that you'd maybe not be seeing an ATG icon in that hedgerow, and your Stuarts wouldn't have been in danger from it if you'd put infantry eyes in your jumping-off-point for a little longer, then area-fired the bejazus out of the tentative "Gun?" contact they would have generated. The additional concealment the ATG gets for not having moved isn't enough at that range to stop the dogfaces from seeing there's something there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 If soldiers are facing the Sun, do they have more spotting difficulties ? And, the other way : Do defenders have some advantage ? It's blinding represented in game ? No. Differential lighting (shadow, dazzling) isn't modelled. About two years ago a PBEM friend and I played a Quick Battle in CMBN where he was the Germans defending looking into the sun. I was the attacker commanding the US. During the game and also during the AAR he complained that his stationary troops had great difficulty spotting my moving troops. He said many time the first indication he had that my troops were in front of his position is when they opened fire on said position. Because of his spotting difficulties we thought there was a spotting penalty for looking into the sun. Maybe we were wrong? He also lost this PBEM. Maybe it was just his excuse "Hey, the sun was in my eyes" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 About two years ago a PBEM friend and I played a Quick Battle in CMBN where he was the Germans defending looking into the sun. I was the attacker commanding the US. During the game and also during the AAR he complained that his stationary troops had great difficulty spotting my moving troops. He said many time the first indication he had that my troops were in front of his position is when they opened fire on said position. Because of his spotting difficulties we thought there was a spotting penalty for looking into the sun. Maybe we were wrong? He also lost this PBEM. Maybe it was just his excuse "Hey, the sun was in my eyes" I'm pretty sure Steve has said it's not covered, same as skylining and the concealing effects of being on the shady side of buildings or trees when the sun is bright. Similar reasons that there are no dynamic point lighting effects on spotting at night: it's dashed complicated to assess. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I'm pretty sure Steve has said it's not covered, same as skylining and the concealing effects of being on the shady side of buildings or trees when the sun is bright. Similar reasons that there are no dynamic point lighting effects on spotting at night: it's dashed complicated to assess. That is my recollection too. Can't find proof 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 (edited) Very impressive discussion and battle. There is so much to absorb here that I worry I'll retain only a fraction. I did not fare well defending against Ian in our last battle. In other military games I always really liked ATGs but recent battles in CM have left me disillusioned in their utility. They are great given good defensive positions and clear sight lines but if displacing them is required the time taken to do so can really put one in the position of either not having an ATG when you need one because it's limbering or setting up, or you're stuck with it not seeing what you thought it would and it's taking indirect fire. What you're having here is exactly what has happened to me every time I tried to use an ATG, and what I considered a key weapon ends up being an expensive post apocalyptic sculpture... Edited May 29, 2015 by Bud_B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 In my experience ATGs have to be very well hidden towards the rear of the battle to be effective. Unfortunately it looks like this ATG is going to get destroyed before it gets off a shot. I would have placed it on the road slightly behind the entrance to the courtyard or in either of the corners allowing them to cover the field in front of them as well as a flank shot on the road. I probably would have placed the shrek team where the ATG is and use their mobility to dodge fire and move to the best spot to engage the enemy. Just my 2 cents. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 ATG: HIde is good (best you can do with arty about to kill you), but you need to keep an armored arc on it. Otherwise, they will ignore any tank which they see. In the case of HIDE + Covered Arc it means Hide until something enters the arc, then shoot it. It's the new ambush command. Schreck: If you're moving them out of the beaten zone, I'd use SLOW until they get to some cover between them and the impacts. (Like a stone building or bocage.) Then, move 'em faster. Of course, SLOW more than an action spot or two means they'll be "tired"...or worse. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOS:96B2P Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 I'm pretty sure Steve has said it's not covered, same as skylining and the concealing effects of being on the shady side of buildings or trees when the sun is bright. Similar reasons that there are no dynamic point lighting effects on spotting at night: it's dashed complicated to assess. That is my recollection too. Can't find proof Okay. Very good then. So much the greater was my triumph. I will have to remind him of that battle and direct him to this thread. Thanks for the info. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MethodGamer Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Sorry for the lack of updates. Real life is kicking my behind this week. My schedule frees up on Sunday, so I'll post an update then. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 Sorry for the lack of updates. Real life is kicking my behind this week. My schedule frees up on Sunday, so I'll post an update then. Totally understandable. Don't sweat it. It's an excellent discussion and worth the wait. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 (edited) Sorry for the lack of updates. Real life is kicking my behind this week. My schedule frees up on Sunday, so I'll post an update then. Bah! There is Pixel-life and then there is distraction! Your men, mortar shells impacting arounding them, Amis pouring toward them, machineguns pelting their dugouts, peer over their shoulders for you...and note your absence. Only a furious counterattack will restore their confidence. Edited July 15, 2015 by c3k 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MethodGamer Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 Minute 22-21 Firing intensifies. The mortar rounds that were falling in the previous minute found their mark, and took out all but one of the ATG crew members ("1"). The ammo team is all but gone as well. The team at the end of the road ("2") also took a lot of fire, and took their first casualty as well. But they're holding tough; they're still taking orders. The leading element of the allied forces on the road have made contact with the AT ambush team ("3"). I was hoping to take out a tank, but they'll have to fight it out with the infantry. The schreck team ("4") hightailed it out of there when the mortar rounds started to fall, and they made it to safety. They'll need to be redeployed to a spot where they can hit the tanks. Minute 21 orders The first line of defense is gone at the forest line. There wasn't much action there this turn, but I do expect the fighting to start up soon. I wasn't planning on making any changes to my defenses here. The road is a bit different. With the ATG gone, the schreck displaced, the road team taking a lot of fire, and the ambush team engaged, I'm starting to hurt in that area. I need to bolster the defenses there, and keep the forces back, so that my forest defense team doesn't get flanked, and that they can do their job. What I was thinking was to pull the two team on the northern field south so they can get to the road, move the teams from the farmhouse up a bit. I may also move a few of the teams from the southern sector (the two closest to the road) up a bit to help keep the flank from rolling. Any suggestions? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobo Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Take a look at my previous recommendations. I think they are starting to look good. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Good news on the ATG! With just one man left, you won't be distracted by their spotting or relocation issues anymore. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Ken, you can always find the silver lining. Even if the finish is tarnished 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChappyCanuck Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Cool, I just found this DAR, thanks to Ian pointing it out to me. Back to gaps in hedges if I may: I do it by getting down at camera level 1 and moving the camera parallel to the bocage line a short distance away. Watch the berm for spaces - you will see them. Note if you are looking at the low bocage chances are you will see the odd phantom gap too. These seem to be places were the art work has a bit of a space and not a real gap. Sometimes the only way I can tell is to swing the camera around and watch what happens. Having glanced at some "how to tell where the gaps in hedges are", one of my tricks is to go to ground level Sometimes it is still difficult, even with reading glasses on (yikes) to find those elusive gaps. So, I put shaders on (Alt-R) and this quite nicely reveals the gaps for me. My apologies if this has already been stated! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MethodGamer Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Sorry for the delay, another hectic week at the office. Damm you Real Life! Minute 21-20 The fighting continues to intensify. On the road, the unit I had setup to ambush the tanks ("1") are effectively out of this fight, as the infantry in front of those tanks have focused on clearing the way of infantry. The German team that was originally pinning the infantry down had to keep their head down for that last turn ("2") were not able to provide covering fire. They were left alone that last turn, so they'll be able to rejoin the fight. Meanwhile, Ian's forces have started massing on the border between the forest and the field in the southern sector, and they've started firing on the defenders near the rear. One of the tanks ("3") has moved up and started firing on the HMG team ("4"), and caused a casualty. The HMG is still in the fight. The INF Gun ("5") started firing on the infantry just north east of that tank, and now has sights on the tank itself. It will shift fire and try to take out some armor. Everything is quiet in the north sector. The team at ("6") has eyes on some infantry moving down the road ("7"), but for some reason, isn't able to target them (CM says no LOS). Minute 20 Orders My thoughts around orders at this point are pretty simple. I will give that INF Gun orders to fire at the tank. It's visible and I have a clean line of sight, so I can't think of any reason not to. The INF Gun also has LOS on the infantry, but given that other defenders also have LOS on the enemy, and given that the INF Gun is just about the only thing that has a chance to kill that tank, I think it would be wrong not to try. I want to shift the two teams on the northern hedges between the two fields down to bolster defenses on the road. At this point, the only thing really left is the team at ("2"), and if they fall, there won't be much preventing Ian from flanking the defenders on the southern sector. I think I should also move the units at the farmhouse forward. I also need to find a place for that schreck. It's going to be needed to take out the armor coming down the road. Finally, there's the mortar team and the HQ at the top. I need to get them working. I think I can get the HQ near 2 to call in a fire mission near ("1"). If so, that's what they'll be doing, as I need to slow that advance down. Thoughts? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 The team at ("6") has eyes on some infantry moving down the road ("7"), but for some reason, isn't able to target them (CM says no LOS). I see this happen now and then, and can never explain why. The unit clearly sees something, but has no LOS. Not a grey line but a blue/pink one. I don't know what causes that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Yeah, that one is a bit of a mystery. Thankfully it only happens rarely. At least I only see it rarely. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MethodGamer Posted July 15, 2015 Author Share Posted July 15, 2015 Minute 20-19 The firing continues. In the southern sector, a tank moved up enough that the INF gun (1) was able to get it in its sights. It fired a few shots which seemed to hit, but the tank got off shots of its own, and effectively eliminated the INF gun. Rifle fire has also broken a team in a trench (2), hopefully they'll recover shortly and get back in the fight. Near the farm, artillery started falling. No casualties yet, but many teams are cowering, waiting for the barrage to pass. It seems pretty heavy, so hopefully it will be over quickly. Most units are now cowering or shaken, but they're holding on. Minute 19 Orders I honestly have no idea what to do at this point. I've lost my ATG, my INF gun, and half my schreck team, so I don't know how I'm going to deal with all that armor coming at me. My infantry is holding on for now, but a lot of units have started cowering, so trying to get them to shoot back is getting difficult. I'm expecting those tanks to get involved in shooting my infantry, so I don't expect to put up much of a fight. Any ideas? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bud Backer Posted July 15, 2015 Share Posted July 15, 2015 I suspect Ian is far too good a player to let you ambush him with Panzerfausts, because that's all I can think of. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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