Axis - CMBN Buying The Farm - Crowd-sourced DAR

[c3k]

^^^

 

The decision to stay or pull back is tough. I've found that if I'm even entertaining the thought, "hmm, I wonder if I should pull back", it means I should.

 

 

The Road:

 

You've got some other squads north of the road. You can rotate them into position while the original guys regain their composure. Do NOT rush towards the bocage! Stop the relief units about 1 action spot back. Pause 'em, then SLOW or HUNT (small covered arc so they don't freeze prematurely) up into position. (If you gave them a small covered arc to get to bocage, don't forget to FACE them, or give a bigger covered arc, at their endpoint.)

 

Or, have the originals back off, pause, then regain the position. YMMV.

 

Let Ian waste his ammo. (Don't put a unit back in the same spot; offset one or two spots.)

 

 

The Woods:

 

I think it's too late for 2. Smoke? A 45 second TARGET order by covering troops into the bocage ahead of them may help. HIDE for those 45 seconds, then FAST to the rear for the last 15 seconds of the turn. They may make it. (If they get some distance, their chances will increase.)

 

Or just leave them there firing away.

[PanzerMiller]

Dumb question here, sorry, but I gotta ask:

How do you Target Briefly for, say, 30 seconds if the Target Briefly command only applies for 15 seconds?

[womble]

Dumb question here, sorry, but I gotta ask:

How do you Target Briefly for, say, 30 seconds if the Target Briefly command only applies for 15 seconds?

Just press Target Briefly again. Each push gives you another 15s of briefness. Some people got obsessional and still failed to find the maximum duration of "brief" you can have

 

I use Del (Cancel target) a lot more now my default mousebutton for giving target orders is a Target Briefly shortcut. It used to be that pressing the "shoot a this" button again gave me the targeting cursor back and let me change the selected element's assignment; now I have to cancel the original TB and start again. Worth it though, IMO.

 

The decision to stay or pull back is tough. I've found that if I'm even entertaining the thought, "hmm, I wonder if I should pull back", it means I should.

 

I think it's too late for 2.

Yeah. "Just one more volley" is usually one or two volleys too many for their health... and that's assuming they've got a covered route of withdrawal. 2 never had that, so I think they were assigned a "forlorn hope" mission to start with. Best they could hope for was a wound that incapacitated them, treated well by humane Yankee doctors in the field hospital, and sitting out the rest of the war in relative comfort and almost complete safety.

[PanzerMiller]

Just press Target Briefly again. Each push gives you another 15s of briefness. Some people got obsessional and still failed to find the maximum duration of "brief" you can have

 

 

Thanks Womble...a hilariously simple answer. I honestly never logically considered this as a possibility...after all, why would you want to extend a Target Briefly order??!! Hilarious.

My command possibilities are now endless...

[sburke]

 

Yeah, this is an are I get into trouble with too.  Often I leave them there since they are doing OK and I often also regret doing that.  On the other hand when I do pull back I have these lingering feelings that they could have done more.  Yeah, helpful I know.  Hopefully some other people will chime in - I know I would like to hear a few opinions.

One other trick I have used to good effect against a human opponent is to have a unit briefly fire then slow move away far enough before they can hightail it unseen. This pretty much leaves your opponent in the dark as to whether there is a unit still there or not and the only way they can prove it is to take the position. They then tend to waste a lot of time and firepower only to find when they get there that there is no sign of an enemy.

If you want to be really mean, have a trp located there. When they finally take the position, you stonk them.

[hobo]

For what it is worth, I think now is the time to "Fire all of your guns at once" and slow them down as your re-enforcements are about 30 minutes out.  If you can get them to duck and cover for just a little bit you should be good.  I would:

 

- Have guys in circle 2 blast the Amis directly in front of them for 15 seconds and run like hell to the south end of the field and hide in some woods for a minute or two.

- Have everyone in the trenches including the Inf gun fire for 15-30 seconds in to the mass of folks just over the head of #2 in to the circle of #3.

- Have the HMG and anybody else with visibility fire/area fire in to the area of troop contacts just north of circle 3

- Have your AT Gun area fire for 30 seconds  in to the spot that the ammo guys says contains a tank.  (This reminds me of the BoB episode where the Brit tank would not shoot in to the area of the German tank because he "Could not bloody well see it".  So he wonders dumb in to the ambush and gets slaughtered.

- Pour more mortars in to the road and field of trees in the south.  I would probably empty my canisters and turn the mortar men in to front line troops.

 

Since it looks like the game is to be played on the main rd and South, I would rotate the guys in the farmhouse area south and the guys in the front of the north field back and south to support the rd units.

 

My 2 cents for the night.

[ridethe415]

One other trick I have used to good effect against a human opponent is to have a unit briefly fire then slow move away far enough before they can hightail it unseen. This pretty much leaves your opponent in the dark as to whether there is a unit still there or not and the only way they can prove it is to take the position. They then tend to waste a lot of time and firepower only to find when they get there that there is no sign of an enemy.

If you want to be really mean, have a trp located there. When they finally take the position, you stonk them.

 

I love this...

 

This is a great topic and I am learning some very great stuff. I like the open discussion format a lot.

[MethodGamer]

So here's what I decided to try:

 

• Pull the team at the road ("1") back a bit
• Leave the team at the edge of the forest ("1") there for another turn (likely their last)
• Order the INF gun to hold fire, but give them a TA that's just short of the edge of the forest

[c3k]

Crickets...

[c3k]

...chirping.

[A Canadian Cat]

Its my fault I'm afraid.  I only just sent him a new turn yesterday or was it the day before.  Either way I made him wait for several days.  I still need to write up my latest turn too.

[MethodGamer]

(It was a long weekend in Canada, so I wasn't around the computer much)

 

Minute 24-23

Fire continued to be exchanged this turn. As expected, the small team in the foxhole near the woods ("1") lost it and fell back toward the rear. Somehow, they managed to not get shot, and the LMG actually managed to take a few shots on the way out. They're panicked right now, so I can't give them orders, but at least they're not dead, and it seems like the mortars are keeping the enemy's heads down, so they may make it out in one piece.

 

 

Similarly, the team covering the road ("2") had taken fire and cover, but they're still in pretty good order. Fire keeps coming their way, but they're holding on for now.

 

The LMG team covering the open field in the northern sector ("3") started firing on the enemy units in the woods to the west. The enemy units were part of the fire keeping the team covering the road suppressed. They seemed to have stopped firing and taken cover, so by the end of the turn, the fire on the road team started easing up.

 

Mortar shells continued to fall on the line, and everyone else remained on stand by.

 

 

Minute 23 Orders

 

Like the previous few turns, I'm just going to sit tight. The little bit of fire I'm sending Ian's way seems to be doing a good job of keeping him pinned down. I know he's preparing to make his move, but I just don't know what he's planning or where he's planning it. The way I see it, either Ian is planning to attack a week point in my line and punch through, or he's trying to get more eyes on the field in front of him to move the rest of his forces forward. Either way, the setup I have seems to handle both. Until I know where he's going to commit his forces to move forward, I'll stay put.

 

I am considering two order changes. First, move "4" back into their fox holes. The enemy forces have seemed to forgotten about them, and there's no known contact in that area. I'm thinking by putting them back into their foxholes, they can take some shots on any enemy that thinks it's now safe to move forward. Second, change the mortar's fire mission. Here I'm not sure. I can either adjust fire from a line across the border between the forest and the field to an area area mission that would cover all the ? contacts near the line. The other option is to cancel that fire mission, and start dropping shells on forest in the north sector where the LMG ("3") was firing. I'm thinking the former, as there seems to be a lot more units in that forest, and they're further east, closer to the objective.

Edited May 19, 2015 by MethodGamer

[c3k]

Nice!

 

North of the road, I'd suggest the unmarked unit between "2" and "3" Target Brief x2 or x3 at the contacts in the woods. (I like x2, 30 seconds.) Have "3" Target Brief once, then displace backwards, shift north, and re-position behind the bocage. Make it a HUNT move into position, after QUICKing back and up. Go north 2-4 action spots. This will give Ian a picture of greater resistance on your north.

 

South of the road: Lonely outpost up near the corner of the road/orchard will soon die. Not this turn, but maybe next or the one beyond that, it'll be time to pull it out. There's a nice gap in the road near the ATG for it.

 

"1" should rout and survive. When able, get it close to its HQ. Eyeball close. They'll be brittle the rest of the game. Being near the HQ should help keep them in the fight.

 

"4": Hmm, if you go to the foxhole, it will die. But, it may stick it to Ian. However, that is a known location. Don't get on Ian's side of that bocage, or you'll likey die for nothing. Instead, maybe go up to the angled piece of bocage by the road entering the orchard and see if you can pour some defilade on any of Ian's guys. Or, pull back more, maintaining a low profile, to ambush Ian's guys when they do debauch from the orchard. Or, retreat behind the marsh.

 

ATG: double-check your LOS/Target Lines. If it is blinded, still, then I'd suggest pulling it out. Going two road gaps back, so it's on the road, east of the 'schreck and just north of the trench, may give a nice flanking fire. I'd think about then (after it's unlimbered and ready to fire) moving the 'schreck up, depending on what's happening. The time to move is getting close. But, if you still have blue target lines from it, then keep it there (my preferred action for it).

 

Mortars: don't think all the ? you see are each individual units. They're frequently trails from the same one. 

 

Ken

 

PS, tell Ian to stop loafing about!

[hobo]

Good turn.

 

I would not worry about the woods directly across from #3.  I really doubt based on the contacts anything is happening from there and I really doubt he can fight his way across 2 open fields and in to your town from that location in 23 minutes.  The action is going to be on the main road and in south fields.  

 

I would shuffle #3 north a few spots, perhaps fire at the woods for 15 seconds, and then loop them back around somewhere behind #2 on the bocage.

 

I suck at mortars.  If th delay is short, I would adjust them to the clump of contacts just North and then in a turn or turn keep adjusting north to the main road.

 

Lastly, I would have the inf gun fire into the area where the mortars are now for 15 seconds and have the heavy machine gun fire for 15 seconds in to the clump of contacts just north of #1.  Gotta keep those heads down.

 

Edit - I forgot about #4.  I have never met Ian, but based on his avatar I am guessing he is not the forgetful type.  Perhaps not Bill with a wall sized map and a bunch of grease pencils, but I think he knows about those troops but just has not gottten around to dealing with them yet.  Make no mistake, everyone in that field is going to die and probably in the next 5 minutes.  I suspect he will bull rush the hedge in a minute or two and use overwhelming fire supremacy to suppress and then kill everyone in site a couple of minutes later.  The real question is whether he is giving you the flank.  My next guess is that he has a squad sneaking down the edge followed by a mortar crew.  If this is true, #4 will probably die soon where they stand.  If they go their foxholes they will die a few seconds later.  So following my hunch, I would attack in to the trees and disrupt his plans by area firing for 30 seconds and then hunting in to the woods.  They may die quickly but they are going to die anyway.  Who knows, they may actually kill some folks.  They can always hide for a few minutes if no one is there and attack again in to the flanks.  

 

 

Keep up the good work.

Edited May 21, 2015 by hobo

[MethodGamer]

I didn't even know you could fire for 15 secs then move. One more thing I learned from this experience.

 

In the end, I decided to pull "4" back. I still have tanks to worry about, and they have light AT weapons, so I don't want to sacrifice them just yet. I adjusted mortar fire to keep pounding the area. I'm moving the "2" back a bit to keep them for further action. I am pulling the team just north of them in a bit. They're fresh, and hopefully, they'll be able to ambush any troops foolish enough to venture north, thinking that the road is clear now that team "2" is no longer firing.

 

Finally, I decided to leave the ATG put. It's 3.2 minutes to pack up and 1.5 minutes to setup again. If I include move time, I'm looking at 5+ minutes. I suspect SOMETHING will show up for it to shoot at in that time if it stays put (and survives).

[A Canadian Cat]

I didn't even know you could fire for 15 secs then move. One more thing I learned from this experience.

 

Just to clarify for anyone reading that does not know already there are two ways to accomplish this:

Option one

1. give the team a Target Briefly order once (repeating the order ups the time count by 15s each time)
2. give the team a 15s pause order
3. give the team a move order to its new location

 Option two

1. give the team a Target order
2. give the team a 15s pause order (or any pause length - this is more flexible than option 1)
3. give the team a move order to its new location (troops may try to continue to fire on your target as they move - this may or may not be a good thing)
4. give the team a new Target order or a Face command (so they stop trying to fire at the original target)

 

Finally, I decided to leave the ATG put. It's 3.2 minutes to pack up and 1.5 minutes to setup again. If I include move time, I'm looking at 5+ minutes. I suspect SOMETHING will show up for it to shoot at in that time if it stays put (and survives).

You can move MGs and Guns a few action squares without packing up and redeploying. I am not 100% sure of the limits but I have moved both kinds of weapons 2 AS worth without triggering packing up.  This is to simulate small re-positioning type moves for short distances.  This is a new feature of the v3 engine (as is the multiple target briefly commands adding 15s at at time).

Edited May 22, 2015 by IanL

[PanzerMiller]

...This is a new feature of the v3 engine (as is the multiple target briefly commands adding 15s at at time).

 

Ah-HA! Based on some earlier information in this or another thread, I have tried to stack Target Briefly commands but have been unsuccessful...I'm using engine version 2.xx. Hence my failure. Thanks for the info, IanL.

[c3k]

Ian's option 2 has the side effect of having the unit CONTINUE to fire until it reaches the next waypoint (where there's a new combat command). That may be what you want...or not. Just pointing out the difference.

 

Edited to note: if IanL has time to post, he has time to PLAY! Git to it!

Edited May 22, 2015 by c3k

[A Canadian Cat]

LOL - I know bad Ian.

 

I have screen shots of my last turn and need to write it up.  MG sent me the turn file last night so yeah I need to play.  Trouble is I can drop in and write a short post here and there while at work and it is not a problem but they don't like it when I fire up a game and play.  Something about the sound distracting everyone else

[MethodGamer]

Minute 23-22

Shots continue to be fired, but the teams are all standing strong, other than LMG team that was on the edge of the forest that broke and ran. By some luck, they made it half way to the second line of defense, and they didn't take any additional casualties. They're still broken, however, so I can't give them any orders.

 

The unit at "1" has opened fire on the enemy infantry coming down the road. I gave them a good fire arc, unfortunately, it wasn't an armor target arc (I was hoping to ambush those tanks as they drove by). Still, it's one more thing that Ian will have to deal with.

 

Enemy mortar fire that's started falling on some of my units (the ATG and the Panzerschreck team) at area "2" on the map. The ATG has taken one casualty and so has the panzerschreck. Fortunately, neither casualty were core to the operation of the weapon. However, mortar rounds are still falling.

 

The road team at "3" has gotten their wits back, and have restarted firing down the road. They are responsible for most of the solid contacts we now see. Unfortunately, I don't have any other units that can get into firing position at the moment, so they'll have to continue firing down the road to keep slowing Ian's advance.

 

 

 

Minute 23 Questions

 

No orders just yet, as I have a few questions.

 

1 - Is moving a valid defense against artillery? I know I won't be able to get the ATG team out from underneath the mortar fire, but can I get the Panzerschreck and ammo teams out of the way? Or is there another defense I can use? The HQ team in that area is behind the hedge, and they seem relatively safe (short of a round falling north of the hedge). I'm tempted to move the panzerschreck behind that bocafe through the opening to their north east, then move them west to the position where the road team is. That way, they'll see down the lane, and they can fire at the tanks.

2 - Can a panzerfaust take out a light tank from 135m? Team "2" has a few AT grenades and panzerfausts, and they have eyes on the tanks. They seem to prefer shooting at infantry. I'm wondering if I should give them orders to shoot at the tanks instead?

[A Canadian Cat]

1) yes and no What I mean is if you have a team at the edge of a barrage you are best to move them out of the barrage. If you have a team that is in it moving will likely be bad for them. What I do is look at where the rounds have already fallen an any teams that appear on the edge I high tail out of there. Anyone else I give a hidden order to. Things like AT guns that cannot move quickly just get a hide order. In your case I would hide the gun and the HQ. The HQ will be very sad hidden, unless as you said a round ends up on there side of the borage. As for the other two teams make your decision based on if you think they are in the barrage or on the edge. That's my advice

 

Edited - my mistake I confused the faust and the shrek.  What I said originally is relavant to the Shrek.

2) no, while the faust will do a number to the tank at any range it is extremely unlikely to hit at that range.  In fact I do not thing the team will fire at distance if if you told them to.

 

<original>

2) yes a hit from one of those at any range is really not good and nearly a guaranteed kill, nearly. Hitting at 135m is reasonably likely. When I give Shrek teams armor cover arcs I usually make them 125m and then decide manually to target stuff out to 150m depending on how important it is or the likelihood the enemy tank will get closer of not.

</original>

Rifle grenades will also likely be bad news for a Stuart to but you need to be closer than 135m, but I think you already are.

I will confirm to pretend not to know where your guys are but as a rule tanks don't lead so the chances are good that your men will meet my infantry first. I am a little nervous that some of your defenders can see those tanks. I thought I was doing a good job of keeping them back. Oops but like I said I pretend all is well.

Edited May 26, 2015 by IanL

[Chudacabra]

 

1 - Is moving a valid defense against artillery? I know I won't be able to get the ATG team out from underneath the mortar fire, but can I get the Panzerschreck and ammo teams out of the way? Or is there another defense I can use? The HQ team in that area is behind the hedge, and they seem relatively safe (short of a round falling north of the hedge). I'm tempted to move the panzerschreck behind that bocafe through the opening to their north east, then move them west to the position where the road team is. That way, they'll see down the lane, and they can fire at the tanks.

2 - Can a panzerfaust take out a light tank from 135m? Team "2" has a few AT grenades and panzerfausts, and they have eyes on the tanks. They seem to prefer shooting at infantry. I'm wondering if I should give them orders to shoot at the tanks instead?

 

1. Yes, it's often the only defense unless you have buildings or fortifications to take shelter in. You can place pixeltruppen on hide for a bit of added protection.

2. No. A Panzershrek might be able to do it, but 135m is pushing it for WWII AT weapons, especially Panzerfausts.

[A Canadian Cat]

Oh man I miss read your original post - no a panzerfaust is very unlikely to hit at 135m.  At that distance the team will probably not fire it at all even if you target the tank manually.  They are best at under 30m.

[PanzerMiller]

no a panzerfaust is very unlikely to hit at 135m...They are best at under 30m.

 

Yes, as I understood the terminology the designations of the different models -- Panzerfaust-30, -60 and -100 -- were references to their effective ranges. I believe the majority of the 'fausts used in the CMBN era are Panzerfaust-30s, with perhaps a few -60s sprinkled in...? I would have to research the weapon's history to say something more intelligent on this...but I have to get back to work...

 

[update -- I couldn't stay away!]

Yes, the numerical designation of each model refers to their "effective range"...

Edited May 26, 2015 by PanzerMiller

[c3k]

"effective range" is also "hopefully the guys using these will believe those numbers range". If you cut it in half, you stand a good chance of hitting a target.

 

HIDE: good for barrages, but keep a covered arc there, too. That will trigger a response if the hiding guys see someone. Otherwise, they'll try to stay hidden. That can be bad.

 

The biggest threat seems to be the guys on the road. I'd think about trying to get some mortar shells to start landing amongst them. That's always fun! Then, when they try to run out through the bocage, make sure you've got guys who can put some auto-fire on 'em. That's MORE fun! Like whack-a-mole, but better.

 

There doesn't seem to be ANY pressure, at the moment, on the left. The right is also pretty clear. Your middle is begging for some attention. It won't take much to pin your ONE team which is holding up Ian's advance. Get some more guys on it. My .02.  Once you get more guys able to fire on the road (or replace those who are up front as they take casualties), you'll bottle him up. Some HE gifts will stuff that axis.