MethodGamer

WARNING - spoilers if you haven't played Die Patrouille yet. I just finished an FB game with IanL, and my MG team got completely destroyed in a matter of seconds. They were located in a fox hole over looking a bridge, when a German scouting team popped up and wiped out the MG team in just a few seconds. the MG team had the bridge under target arc, and the German popped up almost in the line of fire. My MG team did not react at all. What's the correct way to defend against this? The only thing I can think of is area fire at the sound contact. Here are a few screenshots. Here at 20:10, you can see the MG team, fully rested, completely calm. Three seconds later, at 20:07, two Germans have popped up and caused two casualties. And here at 20:00, another casualty. The fourth MG team member would be out action a few seconds in the next turn.

A lot of the advice I received was in the lines of "set a fire arc so that no one fires at the slightest leaf ruffling, as to not give away your position". I probably took this too far, set my fire arcs too short, and kept the fire arcs even after I had sight on enemy units, with the idea of holding fire until they were very close or in the open. I should have been firing a lot more. And I totally agree, if they're going to die, they should definitely not have much, if any, ammo left.

I reviewed the map and units after the battle. The stats are interesting: Company HQ - None 1st Platoon HQ - None 1st Squad / A Team - None 1st Squad / B Team - 3 Casualties (This team was the one near the tree line that held on) 2nd Squad / A Team - 3 Casualties (This team was the "ambush" team in the southern sector near the road) 2nd Squad / B Team - None 3rd Squad - None HMG Team - 2 Casualties INF Gun - 4 Casualties INF Gun Ammo Team - None 2nd Platoon HQ - None 1st Squad - 1 Casualty 2nd Squad - None 3rd Squad - None 3rd Platoon HQ - None 1st Squad / A Team - 2 Casualties (I believe this is the "Road Team") 1st Squad / B Team - None 2nd Squad - None 3rd Squad - None AT Gun - None AT Gun Ammo Team - None Mortar Team - 11 Casualties Mortar Ammo Team - None Panzerschreck - None So there you have it, the full break down of who caused the casualties on the German side. I'm not surprised by the mortar team or the INF Gun, they fired a lot of HE into the woods, so even without seeing what they were firing at, the volume of fire was more than enough to cause damage. The teams that were held back from firing (probably too conservatively on my part) didn't do much. I'm a bit surprised that the Road Team didn't do more damage than they did. Given this, I'm thinking that unless I've got a solid ambush planned, I should not be waiting until I get the perfect shot, but start firing in the general area of where I think the enemy will be.

Wow, I didn't know you could get that level of breakdown (kills/casualties by unit) after a battle. Learned one more thing with this experiment! I'll review the results again later tonight, add to the Axis thread.

Ian and I had a chat, and we decided to end this game. As Hobo mentioned, once troops in the real world realized there was no hope for victory, they would give up and save what remained of the men. I thought it was a good idea to do the same in the game (although it was to save us time and not drag this out for another few weeks). It was pretty clear that there was no way for me to win this game, and given that it takes at least 2-3 days to turn around a turn for Ian and I, we decided it wasn't worth the month it would take to wrap up this AAR. Here are the final results: I'm not too happy with these results. I wasn't expecting to win, but I was hoping to put up a bit more of a fight. As usual, I couldn't put the AT Gun to use. I thought it was in good position, but for whatever reason, it never saw anything, even though its ammo team just a few feet away did have line of sight on one of the tanks. Obviously a tank kill wouldn't have made much difference, but at least it would have restored a bit of hope for AT Guns. On the other hand, I am happy with my mortar team's performance. Usually, my artillery just barely harasses the enemy, but in this game, I think they good damage and held up the allies in the south. A big gold star also goes to the half squad setup with a line of sight down the road. Even though the alliance eventually broke through, they did manage to hold them up for a few minutes all by themselves (until they were eliminated). Overall, I think this was a useful exercise. A lot of good advice was shared, and I'm going to go back and read through the posts again. But it's not something that I'll be repeating too often. It's a lot of effort to put posts together after each turn, even when the posts were as simple as mine. I'm far more appreciative of the work others put into their AARs, so kudos to everyone taking the time to put all those detailed AARs together. You're doing a great service to the community. That said, I will definitely continue asking for advice on the forums, in the form of "true" AARs (i.e. summaries of battles after the fact), and questions during battles (with permission from my opponents of course), for feedback and critique. I still have plenty to learn (obviously), and this AAR demonstrated that there's a lot of advice to be found here. To wrap up, a big thanks to everyone who posted in this thread, I really appreciate the time you took to share your advice and make me a slightly better CM player.

Minute 14-13 The allies continue to fire, and the Germans are having a hard time keeping it together. Fire starting pouring into the farm, and the already nervous units there fell apart along with the building (1). I'm trying to get them into defensive position, but given that half of them aren't taking orders, it's going to be tough. In the southern sector, the Germans took a few shots into what targets they could see, but the return fire was just too much; some units ran away (2), while others simply broke (3). Minute 13 Orders I have almost nothing left, so I'm out of ideas. At this point, I'm almost ready to start experimenting with really unorthodox tactics, like racing my mortar team west across the field to attach the allies from their rear. Has anyone else been in this situation? If so, what did you do to hold on for a few more turns?

Minute 15-14 This turn saw a lot of activity. I decided to try and shift my troops around to put them in a better position to defend the road, which I think I'll be able to achieve. Unfortunately, this turn also saw more fire being applied to the southern defenders, and while I didn't take many casualties, a lot of troops started losing their nerves. In the southern sector, allied tanks started pulling back from the treeline due to the shelling, but on the way out, they fired a canister shot that panicked two half-squads that were placed to cover any allied infantry advance (1). Just south east of them, two more half squads and an HQ lost it and are now panicked (2). That's almost half the southern defenders. Fortunately, the HMG team pulled itself together (3), and are now in a position to fire on the allies that are still in the tree line. Note that all these units are all bunched up together. This is definitely not what I ordered. But soldiers that are panicking tend to pay more attention to incoming fire than orders. Just south of the farm yard, a squad made it across the road to help shore up the defenses there, taking only one casualty while crossing the road. Unfortunately for me, the casualty was the LMG (4). The ammo team and HQ made it to the farm as well, so I do have a few defenders there that could make life a bit difficult for the allies. Minute 14 Orders I don't have a lot of units that are (a) in good order and ( able to fire on anyone. The units that are in good order are in a position to defend once the allies show up, so I don't have many orders to give. Although, this is usually what gets me in trouble in other games where I defend. I'm hoping that things will be different, but I'm not holding my breath either.

Minute 16-15 I got a bit of a reprieve this turn. The fire from the allies continued, but there wasn't much left in the open to shoot at, so there almost no casualties on the German side this turn. My mortar team (1) continued to drop a lot of shells on the tree line, and I think that helped to reduce fire from the allies on the southern sector. I did want to stop firing on that treeline so that I could instead fire on the road, however, the mortar team was executing a mission given to them by an HQ, and now that the HQ is out of contact (it's the one in the farm), I don't know how to tell them to stop firing. Other than that, not a ton to report. Minute 15 Orders While it's highly unlikely I'm going to win this battle, I still want to fight it out. And I think orders this turn could make a difference between Ian getting to the farm in the next few turns, or closer to the end of the clock. Ian's forces on the road have made it to the second straight section of the road (2). I don't have any units in position to shoot right, now, but I do have a few units that could potentially get there to slow his advance down considerably. First, the unit in the trench at (3) is shaken right now, but they're cowering in the trench. With a little luck, they'll pull themselves together in the next turn or two, and crawl their way up to closer to the road and help defend it. Next, I have two half-squads near the eastern edge of the map (4) that could have line of sight down the road. They're no match for the tank, but they could pop up for a turn, fire off a few rounds to get the allied infantry to take cover, then sneak back from the hedge row out of sight. And finally, I have a few units south of these two half squads that could move up (5). It would take away from the southern defense, but given the pummelling the allies are getting from the mortar, and the big open field they have to cross, I think the remaining defenders would be enough to slow them down. Thoughts?

I agree on the first two points. My initial plan was exactly that, to put troop up in front, fire, then move to a secondary, and possibly a tertiary defensive line, and then pile everyone in the farm for my last stand. I still have half my turns left, so I may try that as a hail mary anyway. And I agree that I'm way too passive on defence and I should open up a bit earlier, even if it draws attention. It's definitely been a pattern in games were I'm defending. As for the mortar targeting, that's mostly a lack of knowledge on how to direct artillery properly. I should setup a few scenarios and practice targeting, adjusting, giving orders, understanding how mortars and HQ/spotters work, etc. For your third point, just to make sure I understand, is what you're suggesting is that I had done this (obviously with more than just one half squad): If so, that to me, seems overly aggressive. I think to do this, I would have needed a fairly large force, and given the initial setup restrictions, I don't know if that force would have been available. Even assuming it had been, there's not much cover for more than 2-3 half squads in that area. If instead of flanking Ian's force, I would have ran directly in to it (like say he had been moving farther south than he currently did), my flanking force would have been destroyed, ruining my chance of a victory from the get go. It's not to say it wouldn't have worked, just that it seems really aggressive to me. For the forth point, I'm not sure it's realistic. For one, there was no way for me to know that he had a mortar team unless I saw it or it started firing on me. In the former case, I would have had to scout for it, which is difficult considering I'm defending. In the latter case, once it starts firing, it's too late to defend whatever's being fired upon. Secondly, I don't know if it's fair to say that there was only one real firing position for that mortar. It was a great spot for sure, but I don't think it was the only one. There were several clearings in the forest, not to mention a trail leading out of the area, so I think it could have been placed in several spots. Further more, the starting positions for this scenario made it difficult for the defender to setup units in such a way to be able to put suppressive fire on that clearance, at least not without exposing themselves to fire from the allies. I do agree though, that without that ATG killing at least one tank, it makes victory that much more difficult to achieve.

I think this is another one of those "I didn't know I could do that" moment. The incredible depth of CM brings with it a very steep learning curve. I guess it's something you learn through playing.

I agree. At this point, I've got absolutely nothing to deal with the tanks, and even if they weren't there, my remaining troops aren't in any shape to deal with the infantry. I would be interested in hearing more analysis on the "too passive" part. I do think it's a general problem with how I approach the game. In the other games I've played as a defender against Ian, I find my troops aren't doing anything, other than waiting for Ian to spot them and destroy them. I guess I just don't have enough experience to be able to judge when to reveal my position and put fire on the enemy, vs continuing to wait for a right time to fire.

Minute 17-16 The defenders step closer to losing this fight, as the allied advance in the road continues to cause casualties. The few units that were left in the northern field have pretty much all been hit, and there's one lonely soldier trying to scramble for cover. (1) The allied units just south of the road (2) had an excellent view of the road, and quickly killed the schreck team as they tried to reposition themselves in the farmhouse (3). Tanks fired on the HMG team in the southern sector, and they ran (4). The rest of the defenders stayed put, but most of them are shaken pretty bad. The teams out in the open in the farmyard repositioned themselves in the barns that overlook the only two entrances into the yard. (5 & 6) It's not much, but it might be enough to surprise the allies when they try to move in to capture the farm. Minute 16 Orders Not much I can do, I don't think. Ian's forces now have line of sight on most of my defenders and movement lanes, so I can't really move units in or out of their defensive areas without taking fire in the open. I think my only options are to stay put, and continue to try and slow them down.

Minute 18-17 Things went from not too good to really bad in a hurry. Additional allied troops made it to the hedge row at the first bend in the road (1), and opened up on the German troops in the open. Two half squads have been eliminated, and the third half squad is about to suffer the same fate. To make matters worse, two squads from the southern sector ran across a small portion of the field, and made it to the hedges near the road (2), virtually untouched. Meanwhile, the two tanks (4) from the southern sector made it up to the edge of the forest and have started firing canister shots at the defenders (3). That's caused many casualties and rattled a lot of nerves. The southern defends is starting to crumble. Minute 17 Orders Artillery has stopped falling on the farm, so I can move troops freely in that area. However, I don't have many troops available to move. The two squads at the farm are just about the only ones in position to do anything, but given the fast advance of the allies, I don't think there's any point to move them out of the area. I will move them into the buildings so they have cover, and wait there. I'll pull the schreck back into the buildings as well. They have no support from any infantry, so it doesn't make sense to keep them in the open to take on the tanks; enemy infantry will get to them way before they can get to the tanks. The HQ unit coming down from the north will join the other farm house defenders. The last unit in that area, the mortars, are about to drop rounds on the enemy at (1). Hopefully they'll so some damage. In the south, not much I can do there, but hope that the pinned and shaken units get the cover they need from their trenches and foxholes to recover in time to fire on the allies once they leave cover to advance. Am I missing any other options?

Do NOT get me started on LOS/LOF issues. Just... don't. HEY! I said don't.

Minute 19-18 The fire intensifies and the Allies continue to advance. On the road, infantry has made it to the hedge row ("1") and started firing on the Germans that were cowering under fire. The Germans routed, and are taking casualties since they're now in the open. To make matters worse, they're running back to the farm which is currently under artillery fire. Fortunately, the soldiers at the farm haven't taken too many casualties, other than the HQ unit which was also in the open, running for cover in the farm ("2"). Meanwhile, in the southern sector, the Germans and Allies continue to exchange fire. The Allies haven't tried to move out of the hedge row yet. I'm guessing they're trying to soften up the defenders and scout out any other units that could cause problems. The defenders in this sector are in good shape; very few casualties, good cover, lots of ammo. The big concern in the force on the road. If I can't slow them down, they risk flanking the southern defenders. And of course, tanks. Minute 18 Orders Not much choice. The south sector defenders are staying put. The north sector defenders will do their best to hold the road force back. Once artillery dies down, I'll re-position the two squads in the farm in a better spot to put fire on the units coming down the road, and the mortar team will start dropping rounds on the road. But that's the best I can do for now.

Minute 20-19 The firing continues. In the southern sector, a tank moved up enough that the INF gun (1) was able to get it in its sights. It fired a few shots which seemed to hit, but the tank got off shots of its own, and effectively eliminated the INF gun. Rifle fire has also broken a team in a trench (2), hopefully they'll recover shortly and get back in the fight. Near the farm, artillery started falling. No casualties yet, but many teams are cowering, waiting for the barrage to pass. It seems pretty heavy, so hopefully it will be over quickly. Most units are now cowering or shaken, but they're holding on. Minute 19 Orders I honestly have no idea what to do at this point. I've lost my ATG, my INF gun, and half my schreck team, so I don't know how I'm going to deal with all that armor coming at me. My infantry is holding on for now, but a lot of units have started cowering, so trying to get them to shoot back is getting difficult. I'm expecting those tanks to get involved in shooting my infantry, so I don't expect to put up much of a fight. Any ideas?

Sorry for the delay, another hectic week at the office. Damm you Real Life! Minute 21-20 The fighting continues to intensify. On the road, the unit I had setup to ambush the tanks ("1") are effectively out of this fight, as the infantry in front of those tanks have focused on clearing the way of infantry. The German team that was originally pinning the infantry down had to keep their head down for that last turn ("2") were not able to provide covering fire. They were left alone that last turn, so they'll be able to rejoin the fight. Meanwhile, Ian's forces have started massing on the border between the forest and the field in the southern sector, and they've started firing on the defenders near the rear. One of the tanks ("3") has moved up and started firing on the HMG team ("4"), and caused a casualty. The HMG is still in the fight. The INF Gun ("5") started firing on the infantry just north east of that tank, and now has sights on the tank itself. It will shift fire and try to take out some armor. Everything is quiet in the north sector. The team at ("6") has eyes on some infantry moving down the road ("7"), but for some reason, isn't able to target them (CM says no LOS). Minute 20 Orders My thoughts around orders at this point are pretty simple. I will give that INF Gun orders to fire at the tank. It's visible and I have a clean line of sight, so I can't think of any reason not to. The INF Gun also has LOS on the infantry, but given that other defenders also have LOS on the enemy, and given that the INF Gun is just about the only thing that has a chance to kill that tank, I think it would be wrong not to try. I want to shift the two teams on the northern hedges between the two fields down to bolster defenses on the road. At this point, the only thing really left is the team at ("2"), and if they fall, there won't be much preventing Ian from flanking the defenders on the southern sector. I think I should also move the units at the farmhouse forward. I also need to find a place for that schreck. It's going to be needed to take out the armor coming down the road. Finally, there's the mortar team and the HQ at the top. I need to get them working. I think I can get the HQ near 2 to call in a fire mission near ("1"). If so, that's what they'll be doing, as I need to slow that advance down. Thoughts?

Minute 22-21 Firing intensifies. The mortar rounds that were falling in the previous minute found their mark, and took out all but one of the ATG crew members ("1"). The ammo team is all but gone as well. The team at the end of the road ("2") also took a lot of fire, and took their first casualty as well. But they're holding tough; they're still taking orders. The leading element of the allied forces on the road have made contact with the AT ambush team ("3"). I was hoping to take out a tank, but they'll have to fight it out with the infantry. The schreck team ("4") hightailed it out of there when the mortar rounds started to fall, and they made it to safety. They'll need to be redeployed to a spot where they can hit the tanks. Minute 21 orders The first line of defense is gone at the forest line. There wasn't much action there this turn, but I do expect the fighting to start up soon. I wasn't planning on making any changes to my defenses here. The road is a bit different. With the ATG gone, the schreck displaced, the road team taking a lot of fire, and the ambush team engaged, I'm starting to hurt in that area. I need to bolster the defenses there, and keep the forces back, so that my forest defense team doesn't get flanked, and that they can do their job. What I was thinking was to pull the two team on the northern field south so they can get to the road, move the teams from the farmhouse up a bit. I may also move a few of the teams from the southern sector (the two closest to the road) up a bit to help keep the flank from rolling. Any suggestions?

Sorry for the lack of updates. Real life is kicking my behind this week. My schedule frees up on Sunday, so I'll post an update then.

Minute 22 Orders Just a few orders this turn: The ATG and its ammo team were given hide orders The 'schreck team and the rifle team near by were ordered to the east, out of the area of the mortar rounds The team just north-west of "3" was ordered south near the hedge row north of the road, to support 3. And that's about it.

Minute 23-22 Shots continue to be fired, but the teams are all standing strong, other than LMG team that was on the edge of the forest that broke and ran. By some luck, they made it half way to the second line of defense, and they didn't take any additional casualties. They're still broken, however, so I can't give them any orders. The unit at "1" has opened fire on the enemy infantry coming down the road. I gave them a good fire arc, unfortunately, it wasn't an armor target arc (I was hoping to ambush those tanks as they drove by). Still, it's one more thing that Ian will have to deal with. Enemy mortar fire that's started falling on some of my units (the ATG and the Panzerschreck team) at area "2" on the map. The ATG has taken one casualty and so has the panzerschreck. Fortunately, neither casualty were core to the operation of the weapon. However, mortar rounds are still falling. The road team at "3" has gotten their wits back, and have restarted firing down the road. They are responsible for most of the solid contacts we now see. Unfortunately, I don't have any other units that can get into firing position at the moment, so they'll have to continue firing down the road to keep slowing Ian's advance. Minute 23 Questions No orders just yet, as I have a few questions. 1 - Is moving a valid defense against artillery? I know I won't be able to get the ATG team out from underneath the mortar fire, but can I get the Panzerschreck and ammo teams out of the way? Or is there another defense I can use? The HQ team in that area is behind the hedge, and they seem relatively safe (short of a round falling north of the hedge). I'm tempted to move the panzerschreck behind that bocafe through the opening to their north east, then move them west to the position where the road team is. That way, they'll see down the lane, and they can fire at the tanks. 2 - Can a panzerfaust take out a light tank from 135m? Team "2" has a few AT grenades and panzerfausts, and they have eyes on the tanks. They seem to prefer shooting at infantry. I'm wondering if I should give them orders to shoot at the tanks instead?

I didn't even know you could fire for 15 secs then move. One more thing I learned from this experience. In the end, I decided to pull "4" back. I still have tanks to worry about, and they have light AT weapons, so I don't want to sacrifice them just yet. I adjusted mortar fire to keep pounding the area. I'm moving the "2" back a bit to keep them for further action. I am pulling the team just north of them in a bit. They're fresh, and hopefully, they'll be able to ambush any troops foolish enough to venture north, thinking that the road is clear now that team "2" is no longer firing. Finally, I decided to leave the ATG put. It's 3.2 minutes to pack up and 1.5 minutes to setup again. If I include move time, I'm looking at 5+ minutes. I suspect SOMETHING will show up for it to shoot at in that time if it stays put (and survives).

(It was a long weekend in Canada, so I wasn't around the computer much) Minute 24-23 Fire continued to be exchanged this turn. As expected, the small team in the foxhole near the woods ("1") lost it and fell back toward the rear. Somehow, they managed to not get shot, and the LMG actually managed to take a few shots on the way out. They're panicked right now, so I can't give them orders, but at least they're not dead, and it seems like the mortars are keeping the enemy's heads down, so they may make it out in one piece. Similarly, the team covering the road ("2") had taken fire and cover, but they're still in pretty good order. Fire keeps coming their way, but they're holding on for now. The LMG team covering the open field in the northern sector ("3") started firing on the enemy units in the woods to the west. The enemy units were part of the fire keeping the team covering the road suppressed. They seemed to have stopped firing and taken cover, so by the end of the turn, the fire on the road team started easing up. Mortar shells continued to fall on the line, and everyone else remained on stand by. Minute 23 Orders Like the previous few turns, I'm just going to sit tight. The little bit of fire I'm sending Ian's way seems to be doing a good job of keeping him pinned down. I know he's preparing to make his move, but I just don't know what he's planning or where he's planning it. The way I see it, either Ian is planning to attack a week point in my line and punch through, or he's trying to get more eyes on the field in front of him to move the rest of his forces forward. Either way, the setup I have seems to handle both. Until I know where he's going to commit his forces to move forward, I'll stay put. I am considering two order changes. First, move "4" back into their fox holes. The enemy forces have seemed to forgotten about them, and there's no known contact in that area. I'm thinking by putting them back into their foxholes, they can take some shots on any enemy that thinks it's now safe to move forward. Second, change the mortar's fire mission. Here I'm not sure. I can either adjust fire from a line across the border between the forest and the field to an area area mission that would cover all the ? contacts near the line. The other option is to cancel that fire mission, and start dropping shells on forest in the north sector where the LMG ("3") was firing. I'm thinking the former, as there seems to be a lot more units in that forest, and they're further east, closer to the objective.

So here's what I decided to try: Pull the team at the road ("1") back a bit Leave the team at the edge of the forest ("1") there for another turn (likely their last) Order the INF gun to hold fire, but give them a TA that's just short of the edge of the forest

Minute 25-24 The last minute of action was a hectic one. Both sides exchanged a lot of fire, both from small arms and the heavier stuff. The infantry team looking down the road kept shooting this turn ("1"), but they've started taking a lot of fire. A few soldiers started cowering near the end of the minute, but the others kept firing. They're being well suppressed, I don't think they have much time left in that spot. The infantry team in foxholes near the edge of the forest ("2") are roughly in the same state. They fired at the enemy, took some return fire, leaving half the men cowering and the other half in the fight. No casualties so far, but the fire is pretty intense, and I expect them to break in the next turn. I think the enemy that did make it near the woods ("3") is starting to regret their boldness. The INF gun has started firing in that position, and at the same time, the mortar shells have started landing. I don't have eyes on that position anymore, so I'm not sure exactly what's there. I will continue the mortar barrage for another turn, but I think I'll hold the INF gun back a bit. I'm sure it'll be needed again later. The ATG ("4") spent the turn still looking for that tank, much to the frustration of their ammo team. I'm concerned that a fist fight will break out between these two teams. Minute 25-24 Overview Road Team holding the line Infantry Gun Reloading Minute 24 Orders Now I'm at a bit of a loss as to what to do next. The road team is still in pretty good condition and they have decent cover, but, they're under a lot of fire, and their cover could help them fall back without too much trouble. Should they do so, or keep firing for another turn? The question is the same for the team at the edge of the woods. They're in pretty good shape, and under decent cover, however, they're close to being over run, and if they do move, it'll be in the open. I'm thinking their fate is pretty well sealed, so they should just keep fighting. Then there's the INF gun. It opened fire a bit earlier than expected (I think my target arc was a little too big). I don't know if Ian can see them. Should I tell them to hold fire, and let the mortars deal with whatever's on the edge of that forest, or tell them to keep firing? I'm thinking the former is the way to go.