Axis - CMBN Buying The Farm - Crowd-sourced DAR

[womble]

You only have to hold out for another 11 minutes; you can do it!

 

There isn't much you can do about most of the troops in the trenches, I suspect, but I'd seriously consider seeing if you can preserve some of them and get them back to their "last stand" positions in the hedges round the VL. The team you have in the little barn should be able to exfil: the barn is concealment while they Slow out the back and while they get out of the field. Leave your front rank of trench-sitters where they are, and try to get the rear rank out of the field. Given that they're cowering a bit, you probably want to give them an Evade order, and then adjust where it sends them, and how fast it gets them there.

 

Or you could just count on the tanks taking too long to clear out your trenches; your troops are going to be pretty hard to hit if they keep their heads down. Some Hide orders might help here.

 

I'd get the northwest elements back into the farm, too, or use them to replace the ones guarding the road and drag the road ones back. Ian's not bringing any tanks down the road unless he bypasses the obstacles by going through the hedge, so leave something with a Faust able to cover that, maybe with a Target Armour Arc; that'd need another element to cover it from pesky infantry clearing the way...

 

 

I think you need someone in the main farm house to keep a watch (Target Arc to restrain their fire) out an upper storey on the progress of the field once your eyes there start going to ground and/or dying and/or leaving.

 

After the field, you still have two defensive barriers: the bocage on either side of the road, so long as your north field troops can slow Ian's progress down it.

 

I think you're doing well so far, in spite of lack of success with the towed assets. If you can keep him out of the farmyard, all your losses will have been worth it.

[c3k]

Glad to see the game continues!

 

Tanks: get close and grenade them. Yeah, not a great plan, but better than rolling over, curling up, and crying. Whatever happened to that 'schreck?

 

Trenches: have your troops HIDE. They'll say below the parapets and should reduce the suppression they've been getting. Once their morale increases, then pop 'em up (un-HIDE) and kill some of those green meanies! (Get their HQ's near 'em. Eyeball and mouth.)

 

Otherwise, don't cluster. The tanks will rip your groupings apart. Make Ian disperse his attack to deal with his flanks. Meaning, hold the shoulders of the penetration. Units which can put flanking fire on Ian's advancing troops will pin them and slow down his attack. Tick, tock. Tick, tock.

[A Canadian Cat]

I suspect Ian is far too good a player to let you ambush him with Panzerfausts, because that's all I can think of.

 

You only have to hold out for another 11 minutes; you can do it!

 

<snip> a bunch of good advice <snip>

 

And that is the problem.  I would normally feel pretty confident that my tanks would not fall to Panzerfausts but I am running out of time.  When rushing errors occur.

 

Tanks: get close and grenade them. Yeah, not a great plan, but better than rolling over, curling up, and crying.

 

LOL - go a head let you men have a good cry.  They will feel better afterwards in the POW camp

 

Trenches: have your troops HIDE. They'll say below the parapets and should reduce the suppression they've been getting. Once their morale increases, then pop 'em up (un-HIDE) and kill some of those green meanies! (Get their HQ's near 'em. Eyeball and mouth.)

Lots of good suggestions there including this good use of the hide command.

[hobo]

Looks like the bullrush that I said was coming.  The best you can do at this point is pull back to the Alamo and snipe from the flanks and hope for reinforcements in 11 minutes.

[MethodGamer]

Minute 19-18

 

The fire intensifies and the Allies continue to advance. On the road, infantry has made it to the hedge row ("1") and started firing on the Germans that were cowering under fire. The Germans routed, and are taking casualties since they're now in the open. To make matters worse, they're running back to the farm which is currently under artillery fire. Fortunately, the soldiers at the farm haven't taken too many casualties, other than the HQ unit which was also in the open, running for cover in the farm ("2").

 

Meanwhile, in the southern sector, the Germans and Allies continue to exchange fire. The Allies haven't tried to move out of the hedge row yet. I'm guessing they're trying to soften up the defenders and scout out any other units that could cause problems. The defenders in this sector are in good shape; very few casualties, good cover, lots of ammo. The big concern in the force on the road. If I can't slow them down, they risk flanking the southern defenders. And of course, tanks.

 

 

Minute 18 Orders

 

Not much choice. The south sector defenders are staying put. The north sector defenders will do their best to hold the road force back. Once artillery dies down, I'll re-position the two squads in the farm in a better spot to put fire on the units coming down the road, and the mortar team will start dropping rounds on the road. But that's the best I can do for now.

[Bud Backer]

I think that's as good a plan as any.

Your southern force is forcing Ian to retain some forces opposite them. If you concentrate too much his superior firepower will wreak havoc.

[A Canadian Cat]

Meanwhile, in the southern sector, the Germans and Allies continue to exchange fire. The Allies haven't tried to move out of the hedge row yet. I'm guessing they're trying to soften up the defenders and scout out any other units that could cause problems.

Yep, that's the plan.

 

Not much choice. The south sector defenders are staying put. The north sector defenders will do their best to hold the road force back. Once artillery dies down, I'll re-position the two squads in the farm in a better spot to put fire on the units coming down the road, and the mortar team will start dropping rounds on the road. But that's the best I can do for now.

 

Yes, good thoughts. If the guys defending the road are taking casualties and the enemy is advancing then setting up / shoring up the next level of defence is the right thing to do.  The only thing to keep in mind is the objectives.  In this case the farm.  How many resources do you need to make that open ground unappealing?  How many resources are you going to need to stop the road advance?  Can you move guys out of the southern trenches and get them to useful places along the road.

 

At this point if this were a blind game you might not be 100% sure the road was the main attack but you would be at least thinking that was the more likely course.  So, thinking about how to tweak the defence accordingly would be a good thing (which you are).

[womble]

O'course, dragging anyone into the vicinity of the farm to shore up its defenses is currently contra-indicated, until that arty stops falling. But when it does, the team/squad in the little barn by the road can probably get across there without danger, so long as the Amis haven't reached the bend where the ATG was set up yet.

[MethodGamer]

Minute 18-17

 

Things went from not too good to really bad in a hurry.

 

Additional allied troops made it to the hedge row at the first bend in the road (1), and opened up on the German troops in the open. Two half squads have been eliminated, and the third half squad is about to suffer the same fate. To make matters worse, two squads from the southern sector ran across a small portion of the field, and made it to the hedges near the road (2), virtually untouched.

 

Meanwhile, the two tanks (4) from the southern sector made it up to the edge of the forest and have started firing canister shots at the defenders (3). That's caused many casualties and rattled a lot of nerves. The southern defends is starting to crumble. 

 

 

Minute 17 Orders

Artillery has stopped falling on the farm, so I can move troops freely in that area. However, I don't have many troops available to move. The two squads at the farm are just about the only ones in position to do anything, but given the fast advance of the allies, I don't think there's any point to move them out of the area. I will move them into the buildings so they have cover, and wait there. I'll pull the schreck back into the buildings as well. They have no support from any infantry, so it doesn't make sense to keep them in the open to take on the tanks; enemy infantry will get to them way before they can get to the tanks. The HQ unit coming down from the north will join the other farm house defenders. The last unit in that area, the mortars, are about to drop rounds on the enemy at (1). Hopefully they'll so some damage.

 

In the south, not much I can do there, but hope that the pinned and shaken units get the cover they need from their trenches and foxholes to recover in time to fire on the allies once they leave cover to advance.

 

Am I missing any other options?

[womble]

Couple of things to remember: Barns are false havens. They provide almost no cover and only very poor concealment. Do NOT fight from them.

 

Evade will get Pinned troops unpinned so you can give them orders (including deleting the movement leg it imposes, and hitting Hide). Though if you're overwatched by CAN-firing M5s, you'll probably want to give Hide orders, rather than moving across open ground. Hide-ing in trenches should cut your casualty rate, while reducing your ability to inflict casualties. But simply occupying the trenches (rather than having been routed out of them and killed in the open) forces Ian to take the time to clear them.

 

Those troops at 2 will make crossing the road a risky proposition even if you can get to the edge of the field without being killed. If you try it, make sure the leg across the road is at Fast.

[MethodGamer]

Minute 17-16

The defenders step closer to losing this fight, as the allied advance in the road continues to cause casualties. The few units that were left in the northern field have pretty much all been hit, and there's one lonely soldier trying to scramble for cover. (1)

 

The allied units just south of the road (2) had an excellent view of the road, and quickly killed the schreck team as they tried to reposition themselves in the farmhouse (3).

 

Tanks fired on the HMG team in the southern sector, and they ran (4). The rest of the defenders stayed put, but most of them are shaken pretty bad.

 

The teams out in the open in the farmyard repositioned themselves in the barns that overlook the only two entrances into the yard. (5 & 6) It's not much, but it might be enough to surprise the allies when they try to move in to capture the farm.

 

 

Minute 16 Orders

Not much I can do, I don't think. Ian's forces now have line of sight on most of my defenders and movement lanes, so I can't really move units in or out of their defensive areas without taking fire in the open. I think my only options are to stay put, and continue to try and slow them down.

[hobo]

Sadly for the fatherland, this battle is over as the defenders were too passive.

[A Canadian Cat]

The allied units just south of the road (2) had an excellent view of the road, and quickly killed the schreck team as they tried to reposition themselves in the farmhouse (3).

 

Ooo excellent I did not realize who they were.

 

The teams out in the open in the farmyard repositioned themselves in the barns that overlook the only two entrances into the yard. (5 & 6) It's not much, but it might be enough to surprise the allies when they try to move in to capture the farm.

So, this is an important thing to be thinking about.  Clearly you need to cover the obvious entrances because if you did not and someone just waltzed in that would be bad.  However you already know I have engineering or breach teams with demo charges (and even if you did not know) so you have to make plans for me to not go through a normal entrance but make my own.

 

A word to attackers, it is a good idea to make your own entrance if you can.  Sometimes you cannot but when you can do.  In this case I'll be looking to breach somewhere with cover on the other side so not all the enemy on the farm can get a LOF on the entrance.  I'll probably have to overwhelm the defenders in a building and then breach in the shadow of that building once its occupants have been suppressed or driven out.  I'll write more about that when I get there - there is still work to do and ground to cover before my men get to that point.

[c3k]

Ian's "Rash Road Dash" was pivotal. He broke through the center.  Now the German flanks need to hold, but the northern flank is already non-existant. Ian's got a lot of forces pinning down the southern German defenders, if not outright eliminating them.

 

The Germans must attack.

[MethodGamer]

Sadly for the fatherland, this battle is over as the defenders were too passive.

I agree. At this point, I've got absolutely nothing to deal with the tanks, and even if they weren't there, my remaining troops aren't in any shape to deal with the infantry.

 

I would be interested in hearing more analysis on the "too passive" part. I do think it's a general problem with how I approach the game. In the other games I've played as a defender against Ian, I find my troops aren't doing anything, other than waiting for Ian to spot them and destroy them. I guess I just don't have enough experience to be able to judge when to reveal my position and put fire on the enemy, vs continuing to wait for a right time to fire.

[MethodGamer]

So, this is an important thing to be thinking about.  Clearly you need to cover the obvious entrances because if you did not and someone just waltzed in that would be bad.  However you already know I have engineering or breach teams with demo charges (and even if you did not know) so you have to make plans for me to not go through a normal entrance but make my own.

I think this is another one of those "I didn't know I could do that" moment. The incredible depth of CM brings with it a very steep learning curve. I guess it's something you learn through playing.

[Bud Backer]

I agree. At this point, I've got absolutely nothing to deal with the tanks, and even if they weren't there, my remaining troops aren't in any shape to deal with the infantry.

 

I would be interested in hearing more analysis on the "too passive" part. I do think it's a general problem with how I approach the game. In the other games I've played as a defender against Ian, I find my troops aren't doing anything, other than waiting for Ian to spot them and destroy them. I guess I just don't have enough experience to be able to judge when to reveal my position and put fire on the enemy, vs continuing to wait for a right time to fire.

I have the same problem myself as a defender. I'm reluctant to fire and thereby reveal my units, yet if I don't use them, then I lose them over time. I wait for a point I feel I have an advantage, and that moment doesn't happen. I'm curious what suggestions you will receive.

[hobo]

Ian had a significant firepower advantage over you.  Your advantage was troop quality and a tight time frame.  Your best chance to win was to break up his attack so he would not roll over you.  To break up the attack you should have

• Had your troops fire on his positions sooner and then be ready to move to a pre-planned fallback position.  There were lots of good hiding spots between your front line and the village for a second base and then used the village as the Alamo.  It takes time to rally troops and even if you did not kill many you would have forced him to regroup more than once.
• Had your mortars sweep his positions in more of a harassing manner than just pound one spot.  You knew from the contatcs basically where his troops were positioned even if you did not see them.  A few rounds in each of those spots would have been invaluable.
• Taken advantage of the southern flank that Ian gave you.  He could not advance up the southern field if you were positioned in the treeline threatening his rear and flank.  Also, that would have been a great spot to advance around and attack him from the rear.
• Fire on the only real spotting position that could be used by his mortars to kill your ATG.  For you to win, that gun needed to take out 1-2 of his tanks.  Personally I thought it was too far forward.  You did have some spotting bad luck I must say.

There are probably more but thats what comes immediately to mind.  Good luck and thanks for sharing.

[womble]

Hobo, I think you overstate the possibilities in many of your points. Have you actually looked at the potential deployment zones for all the German forces? Do you actually know how mortar fire works in the game? And the call times it racks up? I can't go into the scenario and dissect your suggestions properly at this time, but from memory, some of them would be requiring miraculous intervention to pull off.

[hobo]

Nobody said CM was easy and Method was surely given a tough hand and a tougher opponent.  I stand behind my position that he was too passive which led to the result.  

 

As to the mortar comment, I am well aware of the difficulty in adjusting it.  After re-reading my post "Sweeping" is probably not the best word choice.  I do think he had the time to walk it slightly north after his initial barrage which if done might have nailed Ian's spotter and own mortar teams which took out methods ATG and then after a couple of rounds marched it slightly further north to the center.  However, you are right that the time delay on the arty is tough to manage and while I dont play much any more, I was usually one step behind where I needed it when I did play.

[AlexUK]

It seemed difficult from the german's perspective from my point of view too. Personally speaking I wouldn't have had so many

positioned in open view. Having said that, you would have only needed one tank KO'd to have really made a difference.

In any case, I have never done a PBEM, so who am I to say...

It has been an education, thank you!

[womble]

It's a tough hand, indeed, defending that scenario. With its fractured and limited setup zones and paucity of AT assets vs the number of Stuarts. And Ian's no mug, neither, to push his tanks futher forward than necessary before he's found the strongest AT asset and neutralised it.

[MethodGamer]

 

 

 

 

I agree on the first two points. My initial plan was exactly that, to put troop up in front, fire, then move to a secondary, and possibly a tertiary defensive line, and then pile everyone in the farm for my last stand. I still have half my turns left, so I may try that as a hail mary anyway. And I agree that I'm way too passive on defence and I should open up a bit earlier, even if it draws attention. It's definitely been a pattern in games were I'm defending.

 

As for the mortar targeting, that's mostly a lack of knowledge on how to direct artillery properly. I should setup a few scenarios and practice targeting, adjusting, giving orders, understanding how mortars and HQ/spotters work, etc.

 

For your third point, just to make sure I understand, is what you're suggesting is that I had done this (obviously with more than just one half squad):

 

 

If so, that to me, seems overly aggressive. I think to do this, I would have needed a fairly large force, and given the initial setup restrictions, I don't know if that force would have been available. Even assuming it had been, there's not much cover for more than 2-3 half squads in that area. If instead of flanking Ian's force, I would have ran directly in to it (like say he had been moving farther south than he currently did), my flanking force would have been destroyed, ruining my chance of a victory from the get go. It's not to say it wouldn't have worked, just that it seems really aggressive to me.

 

For the forth point, I'm not sure it's realistic. For one, there was no way for me to know that he had a mortar team unless I saw it or it started firing on me. In the former case, I would have had to scout for it, which is difficult considering I'm defending. In the latter case, once it starts firing, it's too late to defend whatever's being fired upon.  Secondly, I don't know if it's fair to say that there was only one real firing position for that mortar. It was a great spot for sure, but I don't think it was the only one. There were several clearings in the forest, not to mention a trail leading out of the area, so I think it could have been placed in several spots. Further more, the starting positions for this scenario made it difficult for the defender to setup units in such a way to be able to put suppressive fire on that clearance, at least not without exposing themselves to fire from the allies.

 

I do agree though, that without that ATG killing at least one tank, it makes victory that much more difficult to achieve.

[hobo]

Yes, but I think my recommendation was to move them a little further south, not up that road.  In addition, I would have brought the guys just north of the ones you show south and in to the hedge as soon as they started receiving fire and have them hunker down in a defensive mode for a few turns.  Those two groups alone could have bought you a couple of minutes as Ian would have to have sent a few teams to deal with them.  

 

On my fourth point, you should have fired on his contacts with the HMG as soon as the first spotting round landed.  It was pretty obvious where his spotter and mortar team were once that round landed.  In addition the moving your mortar North a little bit after a few rounds might have helped as well but as we said before, they are very hard to manage properly.

 

I also recall recommending displacing the guys in the North field to be used as covering fire when it was clear the weight of Ians attack was center south.  Go back and check my comments in the thread.  I think they are consistent with what I am saying here.

 

My recommendations may not have won the battle, but sitting tight and waiting for Ians onslaught was doomed to failure.

 

Take care and thanks again for sharing.  I enjoyed watching the battle unfold.  

Edited August 8, 2015 by hobo

[MethodGamer]

Minute 16-15

I got a bit of a reprieve this turn. The fire from the allies continued, but there wasn't much left in the open to shoot at, so there almost no casualties on the German side this turn. 

 

My mortar team (1) continued to drop a lot of shells on the tree line, and I think that helped to reduce fire from the allies on the southern sector. I did want to stop firing on that treeline so that I could instead fire on the road, however, the mortar team was executing a mission given to them by an HQ, and now that the HQ is out of contact (it's the one in the farm), I don't know how to tell them to stop firing.

 

Other than that, not a ton to report.

 

 

Minute 15 Orders

While it's highly unlikely I'm going to win this battle, I still want to fight it out. And I think orders this turn could make a difference between Ian getting to the farm in the next few turns, or closer to the end of the clock.

 

Ian's forces on the road have made it to the second straight section of the road (2). I don't have any units in position to shoot right, now, but I do have a few units that could potentially get there to slow his advance down considerably. First, the unit in the trench at (3) is shaken right now, but they're cowering in the trench. With a little luck, they'll pull themselves together in the next turn or two, and crawl their way up to closer to the road and help defend it. Next, I have two half-squads near the eastern edge of the map (4) that could have line of sight down the road. They're no match for the tank, but they could pop up for a turn, fire off a few rounds to get the allied infantry to take cover, then sneak back from the hedge row out of sight. And finally, I have a few units south of these two half squads that could move up (5). It would take away from the southern defense, but given the pummelling the allies are getting from the mortar, and the big open field they have to cross, I think the remaining defenders would be enough to slow them down.

 

Thoughts?