Why Do Hedges Look Like Low Bocage?

[Col Deadmarsh]

I ordered my infantry to go to a point around what I thought was low bocage, and yet much to my surprise, my infantry went right over the top of it to get to the destination.  Since it says in the manual that bocage isn't passable by infantry, I assume what I'm looking at is a hedge instead...even though it looks exactly like low bocage. 

 

Is this correct?  And if so, is there a mod that differentiates between the two so I don't have to guess what I'm looking at?

 

 

[Michael Emrys]

I've always found that bocage of any variety has the shrubs and trees growing from a low mound and that hedges lack that feature. When I brought this up a couple of years ago someone disputed that, but I have found it so. Just put the camera down in the '1' view and move up fairly close and you should be able to see what I am talking about.

 

Michael

[c3k]

It is confusing.

Open the editor and drop some tall bocage, low bocage, and hedge in the same line. Then it will be obvious.

It takes some getting used to.

[Kieme(ITA)]

For what I inferred looking at game files and how the three items in subject here are displayed I belive the system to represent hedge, bocage and low bocage is exactly the same. Therefore I belive the scenario maker should take into account this problem and make sure he prepares an easier to recognize terrain for the players, for example by putting bocage on a +1 elevated ground, adding a specific ground tile under all bocage lines etc.

[Warts 'n' all]

It can be confusing. But, like Michael says. you just have to get down and look. 

 

I know that some designers use dirt terrain tiles at gaps in the hedgerows. They come in handy for us as players as well as replicating their usage by the local farmers. To my way of thinking the hedges around people's houses or in towns and villages should look fairly neat and tidy. Those hedgerows that the game styles "Low bocage" will be more uneven. 

Edited January 17, 2015 by Warts 'n' all

[Warts 'n' all]

It is confusing.

Open the editor and drop some tall bocage, low bocage, and hedge in the same line. Then it will be obvious.

It takes some getting used to.

This is a good idea. You could even take a screenshot for future reference.

[womble]

For what I inferred looking at game files and how the three items in subject here are displayed I belive the system to represent hedge, bocage and low bocage is exactly the same.

While the system might be the same, the outputs are not, as you will readily see if you line the three terrain types up next to each other.

[Col Deadmarsh]

It can be confusing. But, like Michael says. you just have to get down and look. 

 

I know that some designers use dirt terrain tiles at gaps in the hedgerows. They come in handy for us as players as well as replicating their usage by the local farmers. To my way of thinking the hedges around people's houses or in towns and villages should look fairly neat and tidy. Those hedgerows that the game styles "Low bocage" will be more uneven. 

 

Looking at low bocage vs hedgerows in the game, I just realized that hedges are more evenly cut while low bocage doesn't have the same height in all places. So I guess you can tell by looking at it up close.

 

I just don't understand why the old hedgrows graphic was traded in for this...At least you could tell the difference with the old game.

 

And why hasn't a modder come forth and made a terrain mod to make these 2 items more discernable???

[Baneman]

Here's a screenie of all three with men for scale. As you can see, they can clearly see over a hedge, low bocage, not so much ( and is more ragged as you point out yourself. ). Not too sure what you mean by "the old game" ?

 

[Kieme(ITA)]

 

And why hasn't a modder come forth and made a terrain mod to make these 2 items more discernable???

 

Because, if you take some time to look at how these work, you'd understand yourself how difficult it is to make a mod for such game item, not to mention the fact they use the same texture file.

Edited January 17, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Michael Emrys]

Just yesterday I was looking at "Task Force Raff"—the original BN demo—and there is a stretch where all three types of foliage are on display in one short stretch. Seen in close comparison like that they are easily distinguishable. I know the problem for me sometimes is that only one type is in the vicinity and I have to think about which one I am dealing with and what its characteristics are.

 

Michael

[Bud Backer]

Just yesterday I was looking at "Task Force Raff"—the original BN demo—and there is a stretch where all three types of foliage are on display in one short stretch. Seen in close comparison like that they are easily distinguishable. I know the problem for me sometimes is that only one type is in the vicinity and I have to think about which one I am dealing with and what its characteristics are.

 

Michael

My problem as well. Unless I have both of the shorter ones, I get uncertain of what I'm seeing. Which has in one battle caused me to move troops a fair distance only to realize...I can't hop over that!

[c3k]

If it is possible to kneel behind it and not be seen, it is bocage. (It doesn't mean EVERY soldier will be hidden, only that it is possible for some to be hidden.) If every soldier can be seen while kneeling, it is a hedge.

 

At least, that's my rule of thumb.

[Bud Backer]

If it is possible to kneel behind it and not be seen, it is bocage. (It doesn't mean EVERY soldier will be hidden, only that it is possible for some to be hidden.) If every soldier can be seen while kneeling, it is a hedge.

 

At least, that's my rule of thumb.

This is sounding more and more like a Python sketch - How not to be seen

Good tip though.

[Pak40]

[Warts 'n' all]

As funny as "Bring me a shrubbery" was, I think Bud_B was nearer the mark with the "How not to be seen" sketch.

[John1966]

Here's a screenie of all three with men for scale. As you can see, they can clearly see over a hedge, low bocage, not so much ( and is more ragged as you point out yourself. ). Not too sure what you mean by "the old game" ?

 

 

This is handy. I think I need to make a terrain identification chart and stick it next to my monitor. With a light. I always play CM in the dark.

[Warts 'n' all]

Alternatively John, just save Baneman's pic and have it minimized down on your taskbar. Start up your game, then use Alt-T when you want to refer to the pic. 

[John1966]

Alternatively John, just save Baneman's pic and have it minimized down on your taskbar. Start up your game, then use Alt-T when you want to refer to the pic. 

 

That would be eminently sensible. But I reckon something like this but with shrubbery would be more in the spirit of things: http://static1.shop033.com/resources/A6/5286/picture/EC/17678316.jpg

 

[Warts 'n' all]

Of course, I should have written Alt-Tab, but I'd not long had my tea.

 

@ John1966.... Yes, having something like that to refer to would be pretty good. Also, I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned it yet, but taking a overview look at hedgerows from camera level 6 will show up the marked different in thickness between the different types.

[Bud Backer]

Of course, I should have written Alt-Tab, but I'd not long had my tea.

 

@ John1966.... Yes, having something like that to refer to would be pretty good. Also, I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned it yet, but taking a overview look at hedgerows from camera level 6 will show up the marked different in thickness between the different types.

Now that's a handy tip!

[ChappyCanuck]

Ah yes the low bocage - one of my biggest gripes. How many times have I mistaken it for hedges and had my soldiers slaughtered when instead they had to move around it?  The other problem I have with low bocage is spotting the gaps.  I find locating the gaps in high bocage to be easy, but with low bocage I have been mistaken many times.

[A Canadian Cat]

Yeah, the whole low bocage vs hedge issue was one of my first complaint posts - so far nothing has changed. In the end I just got used to it. Mistaking the gaps in low bocage still happens to me from time to time but I am better at spotting them now too.