Squallion Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 That non-combined arms seems incredibly difficult and not even fun. The british campaign is incredibly lacking on tanks. I had them for....The first two levels?? Is this historically accurate? Were they hurting for armor like this? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I started the Scottish Corridor Campaign and I like it. Not easy, but doable. You need to recon carefully and use what you got to take out German positions. Smoke is your friend... Historically the Commonwealth faced the bulk of the German armor in the Normandy Campaign. Don't know if that's reflected in later battles. Someone probably has made a Campaign that covers the tank battles of the one in the game doesn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Yes, it can be a shock when you're used to having tanks and all you have is infantry. This really highlights why the tank was developed as a breakthrough weapon. Many tasks become seemingly or outright impossible without armor and/or lots of arty. I think this shows how realistic the game is. But you're right--it can be a grinding experience and not so fun from a game player's view. However, it's rewarding when you win! I haven't played that campaign yet, so I cannot comment on it. Hopefully, others will chime in with advice on how to tackle things in a way that reduces the infantry-only grind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Fun is important, but, fwiw, keep in mind that the vast majority of combat on every front was infantry vs infantry. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexUK Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Squallion, keep persevering is my advice, it is an excellent campaign, with a great variety of scenarios and units. In terms of realism I believe Paper Tiger (the designer) aims for historically accurate setups. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It would be nice to have a campaign about 11th Armoured Division in Normandy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Just finished the first battle and got a major victory. Not an easy fight. Many of the Waffen SS unit had to be rooted out by close assault. There was one HMG crew that was surrounded by infantry and I had a Churchill tank with a 95mm that pounded the well built building for 8 turns. Before that the other Churchill tank that was immobilized by a grunt who tossed a potato masher at the treads, pounded the HMG crew with its 75mm and sprayed it with MG for 5 turns. The same grunt who immobilized the Churchill with a grenade used his panzerfaust a couple of turns earlier to collapse an already heavily damaged building that had one of my squad inside it. He fired the panzerfaust, hit the building and down it came on top of my squad causing injuries. I actually restarted the game from a save when one of my tanks hit a mine early on. I doubt I could have won without tanks. From the briefing after the first victory it looks like this is a branching campaign? It does appear that you will see some big tank/combined arms battles against the 12SS and will get rewarded if you preserve your men, but I think that may be difficult as I think things are going to get very bloody. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Is this historically accurate? Were they hurting for armor like this?At a macro level? No. The British had the most armoured army in NWE, measured as tanks/soldier or soldiers/tank, whichever takes your fancy. If anyone was likely to have armoured support in NWE, it was the soldiers in 21AG. But, on the other hand, it's not hard to find battles when the PBI had to go in 'naked'. And, generally speaking, battles where you don't have the full combined arms gamut and are presented with a walkover are more interesting to play. They are certainly a lot more interesting to design and build. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 It would be nice to have a campaign about 11th Armoured Division in Normandy. Seconded. I generally avoid campaigns, but I would be tempted to give this one a go. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexUK Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Something else to add - there is a specific thread on Scottish Corridor campaign where Paper Tiger explains some of the reasoning behind the scenarios within them (including reference to tanks and performance of German troops). Quite a few spoilers in there if I recall though. I think he general gist is, don't worry overly about losing a specific scenario and apply standard infantry tactics. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squallion Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 In hindsight, I was being overly dramatic. This campaign is fun. It's just so stressful at times that I literally alt tab out and either watch videos or play a civil war game or something. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Before that the other Churchill tank that was immobilized by a grunt who tossed a potato masher at the treads, pounded the HMG crew with its 75mm and sprayed it with MG for 5 turns. Ah Yes, how to easy it is in for a single solder or two throwing a Grenade and dissabling a Tank...CM Definately needs a Close Assualt overhaul. Joe 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Ah Yes, how to easy it is in for a single solder or two throwing a Grenade and dissabling a Tank...CM Definately needs a Close Assualt overhaul. Joe I would say 99 out of 100 times I see grunts tossing grenades at tanks it has no effect. This guy got lucky or its an abstraction for a grenade bundle or at grenade? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Ah Yes, how to easy it is in for a single solder or two throwing a Grenade and dissabling a Tank...CM Definately needs a Close Assualt overhaul. Joe I love the way CM gives infantry a decent shot at disabling/killing tanks with close assault. It feels pretty right to me. That's actually a huge beef I had with the Close Combat series. Infantry was totally neutered vs tanks. In fact, I've just about given up on GT:OS after only two weeks, as it feels very much like a 3D version of Close Combat. Single tanks can wipe out vast swaths of entrenched infantry. Meh. If anything, I'd dial up CM's infantry vs tank combat power at close assault range, assuming it was actually realistic. To those who know the real-world effectiveness of WWII infantry vs tanks under close assualt, how is CM doing in this regard? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 In hindsight, I was being overly dramatic. This campaign is fun. It's just so stressful at times that I literally alt tab out and either watch videos or play a civil war game or something. I totally hear you. That means the game is doing what it should! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Just finished the third mission with a major victory. When I saw the 2 Tigers and what I had to fight with initially, I thought it would be a ball buster, but I managed to kill both with PIATs so when the cavalry appeared it was basically a mopping up operation. The Germans managed to occupy Grettle, but I had plenty of artillery so I just pummeled it until nothing was left. Had I not been able to kill the 2 Tigers with my infantry it would have been a different story. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squallion Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 Just finished the third mission with a major victory. When I saw the 2 Tigers and what I had to fight with initially, I thought it would be a ball buster, but I managed to kill both with PIATs so when the cavalry appeared it was basically a mopping up operation. The Germans managed to occupy Grettle, but I had plenty of artillery so I just pummeled it until nothing was left. Had I not been able to kill the 2 Tigers with my infantry it would have been a different story. It's interesting how it happened that way for you. My AT guns were pointing right where the enemy tanks came from. My main problem was the arty barrage and mass assault on the right flank. My AT gun couldn't get a hold of the 75mm halftrack, so it wrecked my forces until my tanks arrived. I really enjoyed that level. I'm still on the british campaign. It's extremely long. I'm really looking forward to the CM german campaign. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squallion Posted July 25, 2014 Author Share Posted July 25, 2014 I will say this, though. The british force has to be the lowest quality, most inefficient force I've seen in all of combat mission. I can flank a german squad from behind, with a british squad, and the british squad will lose the fight. LOL. Low morale, low experience, CONSTANTLY trying to stop them from retreating. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 Haven't played many Scenario's/Ops myself, but figured the Commonwealth ( especially Brits ) would have better Moral & Motivation levels to atleast compete with Germs on equal terms. If I was a Scenario Designer, then I would simply make Brit Conscripts ( RL ) and rate them as Green. In addition, the Attacker should always have a Minimum of +1 Motivation ( regardless of Nationality )...This will give them alittle more staying power to fight. Joe. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I found that with the Brits one has to have arty and/or HMG's in support. The brit inf squads just can't go toe to toe... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squallion Posted July 26, 2014 Author Share Posted July 26, 2014 I found that with the Brits one has to have arty and/or HMG's in support. The brit inf squads just can't go toe to toe... The tanks seem pretty useless in tank battles as well. Had to assault a village with two Panzer VA in it. They wiped out my churchhills over and over again. I hit them from the side, I hit them from the rear. I got the bead on them first, fired first, but to no avail. Isn't a 75mm shot enough to take a panzer from the side?????? I swore it was :/. I'm so frustrated with this campaign that I think I just can't finish it. I do not have the willpower. Panzers will take my churchhills all day long, and they will take them in ONE SHOT, whether from the front or from the side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Heh heh. This one continues to upset people. It got a lot of hate on release. If you hate it now, wait 'til you play 'Crescendo of Doom'. The Cameronians are generally regular experience with Normal motivation. The ASH are generally Green experience with Normal to High motivation. Both have good NCOs and leadership. There are actually a few, very good units scattered about in both infantry formations. Churchills are definitely a bit crap when compared to Shermans and are certainly NO MATCH for Panthers. However, the OBs and match-ups in most of these campaign missions are about as historical as I could make them. The Brits didn't do very well 'Going to Church' either. The 7th and 9th RTRs were both equipped with Churchills and they did do battle with some Panthers along the way. Yes, it's a long campaign. That's just the way I make them. It could easily have been released as two separate campaigns, one for the Cameronians, 'The Road to Grainville' and one for the ASH, 'The Road to Gavrus', but two core groups is pretty much how I've been designing campaigns from the get-go. (Hasrabit had the Republican Guards and the Special Forces) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pelican Pal Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 I would say 99 out of 100 times I see grunts tossing grenades at tanks it has no effect. This guy got lucky or its an abstraction for a grenade bundle or at grenade? My experience has been the opposite. An infantry grenade attack will result in heavy track damage at minimum if not something worse. The bigger issue is getting infantry within that grenade throwing range and then getting them to throw the grenade. My biggest issue with the current abstraction is that it can occur as long as the men are in grenade range. So up to 25M and maybe a little more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
db_zero Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 British/CW infantry have a few redeeming qualities. The Lee Endfield doesn't put out firepower like the M1 Garand and M1 Carbine, but the don't run out of ammo as quickly either. Whether they live long enough to take advantage is another story... The 2 man sniper teams if you get them can be effective. The light mortars are very useful for creating smokescreens. The HE capability can be useful too. I'm still trying to figure out whet the golden distance is where you can fire the limited HE ammo and be sure of a good chance of hitting or getting close to targets like MG's which require pinpoint accuracy. I'm finding my self using 2 man scout teams to recon and draw fire. Once I determine enemy locations, I'm using Bren carriers to suppress with bren guns, if I don't have tank support and I don't think there is armor or AT guns that pose a threat to the Bren carriers. Overall I find CW/British forces suffer a lot of abuse in the Combat Mission world-period. This is h2h and playing battles against the AI. In the Italy/Gustav line they are often pitted against German Paras who are not only good quality, but carry lots of automatic weapons. Usually doesn't end well for the CW side. Some say many of the battles in Italy/and Gustav line from the CW perspective are meant to be experienced, not won. In Market Garden the paras are superb and tote lots of automatic firepower in the form of Stens, but the odds are so stacked against them, that in the end they often get butchered. This Campaign appears to carry on the tradition... I do recall from the book, Six Armies in Normandy, the CW took quite a beating in the battle for Normandy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 My experience has been the opposite. An infantry grenade attack will result in heavy track damage at minimum if not something worse. The bigger issue is getting infantry within that grenade throwing range and then getting them to throw the grenade. My biggest issue with the current abstraction is that it can occur as long as the men are in grenade range. So up to 25M and maybe a little more. Yeap, and I experience the same... It seems just about every time a Grenade is thrown l'm Immobile, which I thought was an issue in an earlier Patch that was supposed to be resolved by v2.12 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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