Tank accuracy

[jack6251]

Sorry if this has been discussed before but I'm very new

Is it the case in that the German tanks in-game are much more accurate in their attacks by their main weapon than Allied tanks? I've felt I've had to finally ask this here since my own tank was shooting at a German tank and it wiped out an entire row of its own infantry and after half a dozen shots, none were anywhere near the Panzer. Yet, shot 1 of the Panzer hit a US tank, shot 2 blew it up, shot 3 destroyed another tank and so did shot 4, none missed wildly like mine did.

I've noticed this in all maps, battles and campaigns I've played and it seems to suggest Axis tanks are setup to be very accurate, is this right?

I'm a bit fed up of my (when I play as Allied) tanks being feeble in accuracy.

[Oddball_E8]

Well the germans were renown for their great optical equipment.

Not to mention that their aiming sights were (IMHO) much easier to judge distances with than the allied ones.

I'm no grog, but that is the impression I have gotten over the years here.

[jack6251]

Well the germans were renown for their great optical equipment.

Not to mention that their aiming sights were (IMHO) much easier to judge distances with than the allied ones.

I'm no grog, but that is the impression I have gotten over the years here.

Mmm, I guess that'd explain things then. Yeah I'll buy that, thanks

[George MC]

Try using fireflies from l

[Fenris]

Someone will be along with more details but in essence there's a great deal of things that go into working out how good one tank performs compared to another. The equipment, crew quality, condition of the crew etc.

When all is said and done though it's the consensus of most players that the other guy's tanks seem to out perform your own with annoying regularity

-F

[Michael Emrys]

To expand just a smidgen on what Fenris said, the crew experience, leadership and morale have a great deal to do with how well they perform. My guess is that in most scenarios you are going to find that the designer has given the Germans an edge in one or more of those categories, as was historically the case.

Michael

[c3k]

^^^

This is a subject with a LONG history. What's been posted, above, is part of it.

The single greatest factor in gaining hits is accurate range estimation. The higher the muzzle velocity, the less sensitive the weapon is to errors in range estimation.

Totally made up numbers follow:

A weapon with a 3,000 fps MV can have a 20% range error and still hit a 2m tall target at 1,000m.

A weapon with a 2,000 fps MV can only have a 5% range error to hit the same target.

(Those are MADE UP NUMBERS!!!)

That example shows what an advantage the German long guns had over the medium velocity 75's so prevelant in the Allied arsenal. The great equalizer was the British 17 pounder. It had a muzzle velocity similar to the German long 75's and long 88's.

Hope that helps.

[Champagne]

I think this tactic works, but, I'm happy to be corrected.

Use small-arms fire on enemy tanks before the main AFV fight. Small-arms will damage tank optics, so, when the main AFV fight happens, the tanks with undamaged optics will have the edge.

[ZPB II]

I think this tactic works, but, I'm happy to be corrected.

Use small-arms fire on enemy tanks before the main AFV fight. Small-arms will damage tank optics, so, when the main AFV fight happens, the tanks with undamaged optics will have the edge.

I think this might be a viable tactic in 2.10+ with the nerfed, more realistic tank spotting. (tanks being mostly blind like they should be)

In earlier versions, opening up with small caliber fire on a tank would result in the tank spotting your infantry and blasting them away.

AA weapons are extremely devastating to optics and they are cheap in quick battles...A burst or two from a 12.7mm/15mm/20mm/37mm flak will make most AFVs oblivious to what's happening around them. US AA halftracks are in the 80-90 point range and the Germans can get a Quad 20mm on a truck bed for 50 points! Gamey quick battle bargains against tanks. Just remember to shoot and scoot.

[db_zero]

I think this might be a viable tactic in 2.10+ with the nerfed, more realistic tank spotting. (tanks being mostly blind like they should be)

In earlier versions, opening up with small caliber fire on a tank would result in the tank spotting your infantry and blasting them away.

AA weapons are extremely devastating to optics and they are cheap in quick battles...A burst or two from a 12.7mm/15mm/20mm/37mm flak will make most AFVs oblivious to what's happening around them. US AA halftracks are in the 80-90 point range and the Germans can get a Quad 20mm on a truck bed for 50 points! Gamey quick battle bargains against tanks. Just remember to shoot and scoot.

interesting. I always though it was a waste of time for infantry to fire on a buttoned up tank.

[ZPB II]

interesting. I always though it was a waste of time for infantry to fire on a buttoned up tank.

I'd say it's at the bottom of the bag of tricks, but it will likely work better now than it might have before. Rifles and SMGs are a bit wasteful, but MMGs, HMGs and such might be of use.

I had the AI mess up my King Tiger's optics with a .50 cal team that the tank couldn't spot.

AA guns definitely do the job. :cool:

[slysniper]

interesting. I always though it was a waste of time for infantry to fire on a buttoned up tank.

was still being taught when I was in the service, I thought "right" like I am going to expose myself to enemy tank fire by trying to shoot out its optics.

But in WWII, likely not a bad choice in desperate situations.

[slysniper]

As to the orig. question. I have never noticed anything unusual as to tanks missing shots too much. In general I think they have this modelled very well compared to other efforts in games. If you are missing as much as you are claiming, I would review what distances you are trying to engage with with what guns. I find no problem with allied tanks as long as you are in close enough to make a shot a likely hit.

[MikeyD]

It seems whichever side you're playing that's the side with the disadvantages. If you're playing Axis the allied guns are maddeningly accurate and you can't spot worth spit. If you're playing Allies the axis guns are maddeningly accurate and you can't spot worth spit. I think its related to the 'dropped pizza' theory that states a dropped slice of pizza always fall on the sauce-side-down.

[jack6251]

Wow thanks for all the thoughts on this!

The ranges I'm at in this battle are quite long so I guess that's some reason for bad accuracy, still, the Panzer just took out three of my tanks over the same distance. It fired 3 times, hit 3 times and destroyed 3 tanks hehe. But, I'm going to try the optics idea by using mortars and heavy calibre machine guns fired onto the area of the Panzer since it's such a big distance to see if this works, I like the sound of the tactic!

I'll report back over the next day or two to update my progress

[c3k]

Smoke 'em if you got 'em.

[slysniper]

Wow thanks for all the thoughts on this!

The ranges I'm at in this battle are quite long so I guess that's some reason for bad accuracy, still, the Panzer just took out three of my tanks over the same distance. It fired 3 times, hit 3 times and destroyed 3 tanks hehe. But, I'm going to try the optics idea by using mortars and heavy calibre machine guns fired onto the area of the Panzer since it's such a big distance to see if this works, I like the sound of the tactic!

I'll report back over the next day or two to update my progress

There is the problem from the sounds of it. You are engaging the Germans at the perfect distance for them and not for you. German large guns are very accurate at longer rangers still because they have a higher velocity that the rounds still have little drop in them.

Trying to blind them and still engage at them distances, is bad tactics.

Relook at your situation and see if you can find a way to engage at closer ranges.

[jack6251]

There is the problem from the sounds of it. You are engaging the Germans at the perfect distance for them and not for you. German large guns are very accurate at longer rangers still because they have a higher velocity that the rounds still have little drop in them.

Trying to blind them and still engage at them distances, is bad tactics.

Relook at your situation and see if you can find a way to engage at closer ranges.

Yeah I agree.

An update on my tactics is this...I used 3 mortar teams to lightly pepper the area (used 3 for speed and to try and save ammo on just one team) the Panzer was in and bingo, optics very damaged, so were its tracks and radio. I snuck my tanks in behind hedges then and it was just a case of waiting a minute or two until one of my Shermans found its mark to eventually knockout the Panzer. I also used an MG team on the Panzer too just to make sure hehe.

So yeah, nice resolution there and thanks to everyone for the advice

[womble]

Yeah I agree.

An update on my tactics is this...I used 3 mortar teams to lightly pepper the area (used 3 for speed and to try and save ammo on just one team) the Panzer was in and bingo, optics very damaged, so were its tracks and radio.

What size mortars were you using? I'd've thought 60mm wouldn't get that good a result, ever since the "small HE vs armour" adjustment; was it 81mm?

[jack6251]

What size mortars were you using? I'd've thought 60mm wouldn't get that good a result, ever since the "small HE vs armour" adjustment; was it 81mm?

Truth is I didn't check the size, I'll get back about that a little later.

Edit: They're 3 60mm mortars and a MG.

[Skwabie]

also hull down tanks are quite hard to hit even below 500 meters... The shots usually fly high and there'd be 3-4 reloads before one finds its mark which... probably already is too late. I've found that tanks behind cover like some trees, tanks hull down... forget it.. time to find another avenue of approach...

[womble]

Truth is I didn't check the size, I'll get back about that a little later.

Edit: They're 3 60mm mortars and a MG.

That is a bit of a surprise, then, that they trashed tracks. Or did you fire a lot of 'em?

[jack6251]

That is a bit of a surprise, then, that they trashed tracks. Or did you fire a lot of 'em?

I think what's happened is, one of my tanks has gotten lucky, what with not being destroyed n'all, I think the main damage came from a Sherman. Wasn't long before I took the Panzer out with my remaining tanks, I move the mortar teams off minutes before then since they were taking machine gun fire from the Panzer.

This optics tactic is something I wish I'd known ages ago and I'll keep the 80mm's in mind too