arpella72 Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 It's very annoying when one of your tanks or other AV get inmobilized by enemy fire or a mine but the crew is ok as well as all the tank weaponry.If the vehicle doesn't received any major damage,why couldn't be repared by modeled maintenance units ?.They can do with tanks what the soldiers do with their wounded comrades giving them medical attention.For tanks the time to fix it could be longuer. from: www.military.discovery.com 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 How long do you reckon it is going to take these guys to do this job? Also it looks like they are not under fire. So how long, under combat conditions do you think it would take a crew to repair a damaged track? I'm curious. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MG TOW Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 How long do you reckon it is going to take these guys to do this job? Also it looks like they are not under fire. So how long, under combat conditions do you think it would take a crew to repair a damaged track? I'm curious. Considering they didn't support the jack and are cranking into the ground, longer than it takes to play a game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUCASWILLEN05 Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 Hmm I don't thnk anyone wants to be fixing tank tracks or anything else while in combat. If a tank is immobilised then it is no longer mobile fr the rest of the battle due to track/engine damage etc. If you are really lucky the crew might stay and fight the tank otherwise they will just bail out and who can blame them? I think some campaigns do allow some vehicles to be repaired (divisional workshops) though I suspect the ability to repair depends on how badlly damaged it was. Knocked out and burning would, I suspect be a write off. Knocked out but not burning might be repairable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 The look on the chap's face suggests to me that he's saying something along the lines of, "Sorry mate, this one's got to go back to the shop." Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 If only a single track is damaged, how about beeing able to rotate the vehicle? Currently a tank with a single track shot off is completely imobilized but i am not sure if that is really accurate from techincal point of view. I mean: why cant tank rotate its hull if one track is still functional? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted May 12, 2013 Share Posted May 12, 2013 If the vehicle hasn't received major damage, why couldn't ... That's the point - if the vehicle is immobile then it HAS received major damage. Non-major damage is already modelled by reduced functionality of the damaged equipment - track or engine minor damage translates to slower movement, optics and weapon minor damage translates to reduced accuracy and/or rate of fire. This is displayed to the player via a colour block that starts from green and transitions through a range of increasingly bright colours towards red. There is little need to adjust non-major damage modelling. Major damage is modelled by the affected equipment being non-functional. Track or engine major damage translates to a drive train that is completely rooted and thus a completely immobile vehicle, weapon major damage translates to a weapon that cannot fire. This is displayed to the player via a colour block that is red. There is little need to adjust major damage modelling. BTW, that photo was DEFINITELY taken outside any context that is relevant to Combat Mission. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFF Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 This thread topic again? Otherwise, JonS is right on the money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zmoney Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 How long do you reckon it is going to take these guys to do this job? Also it looks like they are not under fire. So how long, under combat conditions do you think it would take a crew to repair a damaged track? I'm curious. 5-10 minutes. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vergeltungswaffe Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 5-10 minutes. Definitely correct if by repair, you mean the time it takes to bail out, hoof it to the rear, and discuss recovery and repair at a much later date. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2395212&mpage=1&key= This thread over at Matrix games has the same question being asked and several guys (who by the sounds of things are ex tank crew or current crew) describe the variety of possibilities. A ball park figure would appear to be around a half hour to four hours. Several required a specialist vehicle(s) to help tow the tank out of the crap it was in to allow the crew to access the tracks. NOTE: none of these were under combat conditions. I suspect under combat the most complicated thing may be hitching the damaged tank up to another and towing away - but doing that under fire from AT weapons? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 5-10 minutes. Ha! Ha! I couldn't even change the rear tyre on my mountain bike in that time. What with wet and muddy tyres, midges and cold hands! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I suspect under combat the most complicated thing may be hitching the damaged tank up to another and towing away - but doing that under fire from AT weapons? http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d5_1364807713 Less than 5 minutes from the tank being disabled to it beeing towed away - and all that under constant fire from AT and infantry weapons. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winkelried Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d5_1364807713 Less than 5 minutes from the tank being disabled to it beeing towed away - and all that under constant fire from AT and infantry weapons. LOL - the movie is cut. look at 00:44/00:45 and at 00:55/56 and again at 02:00 and again at 03:48 and 05:11 ... maybe you want to check for the shadows to see how much time has passed 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4d5_1364807713 Less than 5 minutes from the tank being disabled to it beeing towed away - and all that under constant fire from AT and infantry weapons. Does look like it's been edited - you can see the change in light at about 02:35. I've also seen a clip where two tank recovery boys dash out to hook up a damaged tank to tow it away only to be cut down at close range by FSA guys. I'm not posting a link though as both men are very obviously killed. So hooking up damaged tanks whilst under fire is arguably a slow business and most definitely a very dangerous business for the guys who have to work outside doing the hook-up. I've also seen a video in Syrai where a tank recovery vehicle appears to drive up to the damaged tank, reverse into it, halt for a brief while then drive off towing it. This did appear to be done in minutes but was using a specialist recovery vehicle - no sign of guys outside but I thought they might have crawled underneath the tank and hooked it up that way. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agusto Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 LOL - the movie is cut. look at 00:44/00:45 and at 00:55/56 and again at 02:00 and again at 03:48 and 05:11 ... Oh, yeah. Now that you say it i see it too . maybe you want to check for the shadows to see how much time has passed Hmmm...that is not even such a bad idea! If you look at the shadow on the white pillar in the right portion of the picture at 00:00 and then compare it to the same shadow on the same white pillar at 00:58, 02:03, 03:57, 05:55, it does not appear to have moved significantly in any direction. Given the low quality of the video and the different angles from wich see the shadow, there is of course some inaccuracy in this estimate, but i am sure that the action you see happened within a timespan of 5-120 minutes maximum. My guess is though, given situation, that the whole action took less than 30 minutes. Both esitmates are within the timescale of a CM game. Does look like it's been edited - you can see the change in light at about 02:35. Could be caused by clouds that temporarely cover the sky above combat area, reducing the sunlight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethaface Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Perhaps towing away could sometimes be done in quick fashion, however towing away != repair finished. Personally I'm not interested in commanding tow aways and such, this is combat mission, not mechanic mission! I believe that in campaigns repairs between missions are already available, if the author wants it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I think what needs to be fixed in campaigns is that vehicles immobilized from being bogged need to show up in the next scenario. Currently a vehicle that has become 'immobilized' from bogging does not make it to the next scenario when there may be NO track damage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeeDog Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I think what needs to be fixed in campaigns is that vehicles immobilized from being bogged need to show up in the next scenario. Currently a vehicle that has become 'immobilized' from bogging does not make it to the next scenario when there may be NO track damage. This. Once you take into account (a) the time it would take a vehicle to get immobilized in the first place (usually doesn't happen on Turn 1), ( the time it would take to secure the area around the immobilized vehicle so recovery operations could begin, © the time it would take to move a recovery vehicle up into position, (d) the time it would take to actually mechanically attach the towline/recovery apparatus, and (e) the time it would then take to pull the vehicle back out of the engagement area, the likelihood of all this happening within the span of a CMBN scenario is very slim. Maybe once in a blue moon in a situation where a vehicle gets immobilized very early on in a long scenario in a relatively safe place, but this is definitely not worth the considerable time and effort it would take to code. Other stuff is more important. But some sort of abstract system to account for vehicle recovery between battles of a campaign would be a nice addition. Needn't be too complicated; a simple abstraction would do. Maybe the Scenario Designer should be able to set a "recovery %" between battles er sumfink. Note that a "recovery %" wouldn't be exactly the same thing as the current replacement %, which models damaged vehicles & casualties being entirely replaced, presumably from replacement pools. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I've watched the T-72 vid where the damaged one is towed out, rear first, by a sibling. If you look closely you can see the legs of the brave man who jumped out and hooked up the tow cable/s. Since the tanks are on a hard, paved(?) surface, doing this would presumably be quick, a performance doubtless improved by all the bullets whizzing about. I can't tell from the vid, but there may be a short tow bar in use. Tank towing 101. http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?125040-Really-dumb-question-can-you-tow-a-tank ISTR such actions were prohibited for Panzer commanders at Kursk. Under no circumstances were they to stop to assist their disabled brother Panzers. Momentum was all! Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I think what needs to be fixed in campaigns is that vehicles immobilized from being bogged need to show up in the next scenario. Currently a vehicle that has become 'immobilized' from bogging does not make it to the next scenario when there may be NO track damage. That's entirely down to a setting in the campaign the scenario designer can set. So it's a campaign design choice rather than a game engine limitation. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I think what needs to be fixed in campaigns is that vehicles immobilized from being bogged need to show up in the next scenario. Currently a vehicle that has become 'immobilized' from bogging does not make it to the next scenario when there may be NO track damage. Are you sure about that? In the campaign script file there are four settings for each side that are applied between battles: 1) Refit 2) Repair Vehicle 3) Resupply 4) Rest Refit replaces units destroyed in combat Repair Vehicle repairs vehicles that have suffered damage in a battle including, presumably, immobilised vehicles. AFAIK this arameter doesn't care how the damage was caused, just that there is damage. Resupply tops up ammunition Rest brings units back to a fully rested state. Repair Vehicle seems to be exactly what you are describing, it is already in the game, and has been for almost six (6) years now. Edit: nerd-sniped by George 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan8325 Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 Are you sure about that? In the campaign script file there are four settings for each side that are applied between battles: 1) Refit 2) Repair Vehicle 3) Resupply 4) Rest Refit replaces units destroyed in combat Repair Vehicle repairs vehicles that have suffered damage in a battle including, presumably, immobilised vehicles. AFAIK this arameter doesn't care how the damage was caused, just that there is damage. Resupply tops up ammunition Rest brings units back to a fully rested state. Repair Vehicle seems to be exactly what you are describing, and it is already in the game. Edit: nerd-sniped by George I was aware that Repair Vehicle repairs damaged components but I don't recall seeing an immobilized vehicle make it to the next scenario. Bogged vehicles may have no damage at all despite being immobilized, so I'm not sure how this works in the Repair Vehicle feature. If anyone knows a specific scenario in a specific campaign that offers vehicle repair before the next scenario I'd be interested in playing around with it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 I was aware that Repair Vehicle repairs damaged components but I don't recall seeing an immobilized vehicle make it to the next scenario. Bogged vehicles may have no damage at all despite being immobilized, so I'm not sure how this works in the Repair Vehicle feature. If anyone knows a specific scenario in a specific campaign that offers vehicle repair before the next scenario I'd be interested in playing around with it. Depends on the repair setting that the designer chooses - it's done as a % chance. So any vehicle, as JonS says that is damaged/immobilised/bogged will have a chance to make it back, or not. FWIW immobilisation in game due to bogging simulates not just a AFV throwing a track or getting stuck but also the gearbox blowing out, torsion bars snapping etc etc. So the repair could be more involved than just breaking the track and inserting a new track link - could mean refitting a whole new gear box etc. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted May 13, 2013 Share Posted May 13, 2013 AIUI "bogged" isn't damaged at all. It's a temporary state in-game that will either progress to "immobilised" or revert back to fully mobile. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.