Picking units in a QB

[pktaskess]

Why is everything Battalion strength? What a huge hassle trying to amass a small force...unless I'm doing something wrong. How can this be done easier?

Also - are individual units more expensive than when purchased via formation?

Pax,

nick™

[Doug Williams]

Buy a batallion of something (example: infantry), then delete units (companies, platoons, squads, whatever) from that batallion until you get the force you want.

Yes, buying individual units and teams is generally (always?) more expensive.

[Sublime]

Well is it really that much hassle? just a few clicks to delete the few companies in a battalion. Anyways you need that first 'parent' formation to start it all off. But if you select armor you can select a single vehicles tab on the side and buy individual tanks. Same with teams - scouts, light and heavy MGs, mortars, FOs, breach teams, etc etc. However not regular line infantry - you have to buy those regular.

Also if you look closely at some of the formations they're not all battalions - there are recon platoons, etc.

[mjkerner]

It's actually pretty elegant when you get the hang of it, but it is annoying until you have that eureka! moment. When you delete units, start with the lower units and work higher if you don't want a lot of "extra" higher echelon HQs. So if you want only a company, get rid of (for example) D, C, and B, the skip over A, then delete all the Batt HQ units (unless you want to keep it of course), then you have A Co. with no extraneous higher HQs.

Then, let's say you want only 1st Platoon of A Co. Do the same thing...delete weapons, 3 and 2nd platoons, then if you also don't want A Co. HQ, you skip over 1st Platoon and you can delete Company HQ. Voila, 1 platoon to command.

Basically, the idea is if you have a complete subordinate unit...platoon, company, etc that has it's own HQ, you can delte the higher formation HQ. You can't delete a Higher formation HQ if there are any subordinate units without their own HQ. So if you add single teams or vehicles directly to the Batt HQ, you can't delete it no matter what. So if you want company-size kampfgruppe, and don't want Batt HQ, click on the company HQ and add the extra vehicles/teams directly to it.

You'll get the hang of it.

[altipueri]

It's hassle. CMx1 was so much better for quick battles generating instant scenery at random. Another sacrifice to RT I fear. I do do a bit of tank racing though just for fun.

[womble]

Also - are individual units more expensive than when purchased via formation?

"Specialist Teams" are hellaciously expensive. You can get most of a platoon of infantry for the price of a scout team, a breaching team an LMG team and an AT team.

Each "Formation" you buy has a small fixed cost, about 50pts, IIRC, so if you want a couple of engineer platoons, and your main formation doesn't have any organic, best to pick a Pioneer Battalion and strip out everything except the two platoons you want. But individual vehicles are more expensive than vehicles that come as part of a Formation. For tanks, the break point is about 4 vehicles: if you only want 3 tanks, buy them separately (unless you want the HQ capabilities), 4 are cheaper when bought as a formation, even given the formation standing charge.

If you have a dismounted infantry Battalion (with deletions) as the core of your force, and you want some trucks for resupply and defilade mobility, look for support elements like the Ami Infantry Battalion's AT Platoon, which have trucks but from which you might not want the popguns on the attack. You'll need to pay for the platoon's HQ, but they still work out cheaper than buying the same number of "individual vehicles".

[A Canadian Cat]

It's actually pretty elegant when you get the hang of it, but it is annoying until you have that eureka! moment.

I agree, I stated off feeling frustrated but now I prefer it.

So if you want only a company, get rid of (for example) D, C, and B, the skip over A, then delete all the Batt HQ units (unless you want to keep it of course), then you have A Co. with no extraneous higher HQs.

Actually I keep D company and delete up from there. Or 3 Platoon and delete 1 and 2. In fact I have been known to add two infantry battalions and then delete the first one. Just so I can have H Company. I keep changing it up. That way when my opponents select my units they get misinformation about the size of my force.

I know it is not much, but I get a kick out of "thinking that" when my opponents look at a squad from 1 platoon, H company they must wonder "how much infantry does this guy have?".

[womble]

I know it is not much, but I get a kick out of "thinking that" when my opponents look at a squad from 1 platoon, H company they must wonder "how much infantry does this guy have?".

I think that 20000 pointer has gone to your head! Most of the time, seeing "H Coy" would suggest that you've done exactly what you have done

[A Canadian Cat]

I think that 20000 pointer has gone to your head! Most of the time, seeing "H Coy" would suggest that you've done exactly what you have done

LOL - I am sure you are correct. From now on I will stop doing the second battalion trick.

It might work on a small battle where you just have 3 Platoon. For all they know you choose all green infantry so you could get a company.

[womble]

LOL - I am sure you are correct. From now on I will stop doing the second battalion trick.

It might work on a small battle where you just have 3 Platoon. For all they know you choose all green infantry so you could get a company.

That's the key. It's a tactic that may occasionally have use; you just need to make it believable. Pick 2 of 1, 2 and 3 platoons from companies A, B and C, rather than all 3 platoons from companies A and B. Then your opponent wonders where 1-ACoy is hiding...

[slysniper]

I hated the system at first also, but It is a better system. So maybe not as easy and gamey as CMX1. But it does promote trying to use formations that are more realistic.

Also I just like it for the fact that if you are designing scenario's . You have all the information at your fingertips as to what units a Battalion had available to use - at least as far as their organizational charts were concerned.

So it gives you a good base to design for Historically correct options that were available for your units instead of adding attachments that were not truely available.

[mjkerner]

Another sacrifice to RT I fear.

Not true. It's due to the vastly more complex coding for 1:1 modeling, more complex terrain, etc.. For those who love CMx1, well, this isin't CMx1, it's a different game entirely and may not be your cup of tea. Different strokes, and all that.

When CMx3 comes out, I probablyI will not like it--or at least will take some timeto get used to it, since it will not be CMx2.

[pktaskess]

You're not convincing me here. Have a Platoon level I can pick quick and easy.

[Sublime]

You're not convincing me here. Have a Platoon level I can pick quick and easy.

probably because no one was trying to convince you of anything. On the master screen for most Armies there's at least one platoon among the battalions, etc. Companies too IIRC. Now they're not regular grunts, they're recon troops in the case I'm thinking of (British Army) but hey I'm assuming you're playing CM for it's realism and a few extra mouse clicks isn't a big deal.

[Vanir Ausf B]

I hated the system at first also, but It is a better system. So maybe not as easy and gamey as CMX1. But it does promote trying to use formations that are more realistic.

I feel the opposite is true. The new system is certainly more flexible, but it also allows a lot more "gaminess" and ahistorical formations.

In CMx1 you could not edit formations. But the larger the formation you bought, the bigger the per-unit discount. So if for example if you bought a full PzGrenadier battalion each infantry squad may cost 23 pts. But say you don't want all those undermodeled machine guns in the heavy weapons company. The only way to get rid of them was buy the companies individually. But then the cost of each squad goes up to 27 each.

In CMx2 once you buy your battalion you can edit out as many units as you want and the per unit cost of what is left remains the same, so there is no real incentive to stick with the official TOE. Plus you can min/max the stats of each individual unit, while in CMx1 you could only select a certain range of stats and they were randomly determined within that range. You can do that in CMx2 also, but there is nothing stopping you from editing the results.

[Vinnart]

When picking units there are pros and cons to buyng individuals. Buy a company of infantry, and a platoon of tanks, and the tanks will be cheaper, but not on the same C2 link as the infantry. On the other hand buying indivudal tanks cost more, but then you can assign them to the infantry company which keeps them on the same C2 as the rest of the force. I tend to buy indivduals for better C2. The same goes for teams. Buy 4th platoon, or buy teams for the infantry platoon. The latter cost more, but makes C2 easier in spreading out.

I am so much happier being able to tailor my force as I see fit, as it is more effective than what the official order of battle is. In this way I truly feel in command rather than having to use what another commander says I should have.

Anything is better than what CMSF had. That is where trying to be too real backfired in balanced playability for quick battles. One guy could end up with just armored cars, and the other all tanks. Made for some short "I can't wait till they change this" QB battles. One was basicly limited to scenarios for PBEM's. Overall I think the CMBN method isn't bad.

[pktaskess]

but hey I'm assuming you're playing CM for it's realism

I am - in how it models combat. When I'm in the mood for a quick game, give me some infantry and a few tanks.

[Vinnart]

I am - in how it models combat. When I'm in the mood for a quick game, give me some infantry and a few tanks.

I couldn’t have said that any better pktaskess . I want the combat, and terrain interaction to be realistic. This to me is what is most important, and makes CM realistic. The rest needs to be seen in a fun game aspect I think. It’s all about giving the players options to play as they wish while maintaining the most important aspects for realism, which is the combat. The option to be flexible is there along with strictness if one wishes.

[Fizou]

I can believe people complaining about the mechanics for picking forces in QB´s and how the camera operates. Its not that hard... in fact its very easy. But I guess you´ll never be able to satisfy everyone.

[Apocal]

It's hassle. CMx1 was so much better for quick battles generating instant scenery at random. Another sacrifice to RT I fear. I do do a bit of tank racing though just for fun.

The RT MP players I usually go against actually bitch about it too, since you buy whole battalions and no one does RT QBs with full battalions. OTOH, it still only takes them like 45 seconds tops to buy everything they want, so I'm not sure why it bothers them.

"argh a whole 45 seconds buying my special snowflake setup"

*QB set for 2 hours*

Wat?

[Doug Williams]

Coming from CM1 to CMBN, I didn't like it at first, but now I'm used to it. If I want, say, two platoons of infantry and a couple of tanks, I can finish my QB force selection in probably one minute. You'll get used to it, OP.

[Pvt. Ryan]

I was baffled by it at first, but if you take a little time to understand the system you can select what you want pretty quickly. Fine tuning the unit attributes can take a while, but you didn't even have that option before.

[womble]

Fine tuning the unit attributes can take a while, but you didn't even have that option before.

And you don't have to, if you can bear a few points unspent.

[slysniper]

i THOUGHT OF A POSSIBLE SIMPLE ANSWER TO HELP THE GAME IN THIS AREA.

Why not allow you to save your selections in a file for future QB use. Then each game you would not have to go through the task of deselcting. Most players have a handful of typ. set ups they like to use for a certain size battle anyway. So it would be a great time saver to just have them saved in a file you could reselect, pull it up. Still be able to make adjustments, then proceed. It would also let you see how you once created forces and keep track of adjustments you come up with as you try different formations with time.

[mjkerner]

Slysniper, you can do that with core units now. (Or can't you import them in QBs?--I hardly ever do QBs.)