BillyR Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I had a tank - went to ground level and used zoom (as described in the Amrchair General How To videos) to see what the tank could see. Unfortunately, what I can see from that perspective isn't what the LoS is showing me...in these pictures, though I can "see" these buildings, the game was telling me I didn't have LoS. I took a screen grab and unfortunately the LoS line didn't stay in the image...so I just put some arrows in to show what buildings I'm talking about...and the angle of the lines is deceptive...the lines of sight to the Tower and the two buildings were unbroken from a naked eye perspective - but the game was telling me otherwise and I couldn't work out why It's wet, daytime (I believe) and not foggy. Any ideas why I can't "see" what I can "see"? When this happens it kind of makes it a total waste of time getting down low to see what the unit sees...if the game is interpreting it toally differently or using some calculation that the user is unaware of...in other words, when LoS is broken, it'd be helpful to see the reason why the LoS is broken - feedback is a gamers friend. Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 well the trouble you are experiencing is well known in the community. there are also videos showing tanks koed from positions where they cannot be seen by the bare eye. (because trees full of leaves, hedges etc. are in the way). i`ve encountered numerous moments when the game calculated los different from what i could actually see (from tank gunner/soldier perspective). i think a lot of the trouble is caused by the action spot system used ingame. only if theirs los to the full action spot you can actually target it. thats also causing some strange moments when a tanks frontal part is sticking out behind a house but you cannot target it because you have no los to the central part of the tank. i assume the same is happening here with your attempt to target the house or tower. the hedge is blocking the los to the central action spot of the buildings so you cannot target it... hope theres some improvement made in the future. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I think it's because the bocage is blocking the tank's LOS to the ground floors of the buildings in question. It's a persistent annoyance that if a unit has no LOS to the ground floor of a building it can't target the upper floors even if it has LOS to them. There is a partial work-around in place that spotted units in the upper floors of such buildings can be targeted -- as long as they remain spotted -- but area fire is not allowed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyR Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 Damn. Thanks for the info - that is rather annoying to say the least. The reason I wanted to target the buildings was to suppress any units that may be in there prior to moving forward. If I was playing the other side, I'd probably have stuck a spotter or sniper in the tower...and an AT unit in the building by the road with Ambush set. So I would've thought the sensible thing to do - before moving off - was to target those buildings and give anything in there a headache! I think I'd like to see that addressed in a patch in the future. I don't know why I've ever noticed it before or perhaps I was too engrossed in play to bother posting about it Thanks anyway 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Just to add to what's been said, I don't see any trees in the images, so it may be you have them turned off as well ? P 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyR Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 I'll check. I haven't conciously done so and seldom do so - but it's been a while since I last played. I'll be rather embarrassed if that's the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George MC Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 The trees are switched off. You can see the stumps in these images. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Yea, this is purely an "action spot" issue. It is frustrating at times. In my opinion they should make walls target-able as well, independent of the 'action spot' system. Hedgerows should be treated as walls in this respect so that units can use area fire on hedgerows themselves instead of the ground in front of the hedgerow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I think it's because the bocage is blocking the tank's LOS to the ground floors of the buildings in question. It's a persistent annoyance that if a unit has no LOS to the ground floor of a building it can't target the upper floors even if it has LOS to them. There is a partial work-around in place that spotted units in the upper floors of such buildings can be targeted -- as long as they remain spotted -- but area fire is not allowed. This isn't a hard and fast rule though. There are plenty of times the upper floors can be targeted when the ground floor is obscured: church towers are a common example, especially the really big ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyR Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 erm...a *very embarrassed me* has to admit that the prize goes to George MC (though the hot spot issue may be a real issue - it doesn't seem to be the cause of my issue) This is the cause of my issue My sincere apologies for being a dunce! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 If you're a dunce so are a large proportion of the people on here, and playing the game in general. That's caught a lot of people out in the past... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Yea, this is purely an "action spot" issue. It is frustrating at times. In my opinion they should make walls target-able as well, independent of the 'action spot' system. Hedgerows should be treated as walls in this respect so that units can use area fire on hedgerows themselves instead of the ground in front of the hedgerow. +1 Additional info: plus one if too short to post 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 LOL, this almost begs for a LOS blocking text to let us dunces know exactly what is blocking our LOS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simast Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I have run into a couple LOS issues myself. A good example (Fortress Italy): https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dv07i8yvcbv9si/los.jpg 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 LOL, this almost begs for a LOS blocking text to let us dunces know exactly what is blocking our LOS. The LOS line does usually try and do that by changing colour the other side of the blocking terrain, so if it goes darkblue/purple way before the cover you think might be blocking, perhaps there's a turned-off tree in the way Edit: p.s. Colour discrimination is not my strong suit. If I've got them a bit skew-wif, apologies. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyR Posted December 13, 2012 Author Share Posted December 13, 2012 The LOS line does usually try and do that by changing colour the other side of the blocking terrain, so if it goes darkblue/purple way before the cover you think might be blocking, perhaps there's a turned-off tree in the way Edit: p.s. Colour discrimination is not my strong suit. If I've got them a bit skew-wif, apologies. I agree! :-) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 This isn't a hard and fast rule though. There are plenty of times the upper floors can be targeted when the ground floor is obscured: church towers are a common example, especially the really big ones. Are you saying it is building specific? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Are you saying it is building specific? No. I'm saying that sometimes the conditions you describe do not prevent firing at upper storey windows. I'm not commenting on exactly what conditions have to pertain for that to be the case. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warloch Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Played with my friend one match V2.0 and it was impossible to play because los problems. We could see and aim through houses and sometimes we couldn't see anything into the houses while there were infantry inside in them.:mad: BF please fix LOS!!! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Played with my friend one match V2.0 and it was impossible to play because los problems. We could see and aim through houses and sometimes we couldn't see anything into the houses while there were infantry inside in them. BF please fix LOS!!! You really think this can be resolved on the basis of the info you have provided ?? Come on give us something to go on ;-) P 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siffo998 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 I have run into a couple LOS issues myself. A good example (Fortress Italy): https://www.dropbox.com/s/3dv07i8yvcbv9si/los.jpg yes thats really annoying. looks like the gunner has clear los to the target but los is calculated from the center of the tank and the center is still behind the edge... i`ve had a similar situation in a cmfi solo campaign game. iwanted to area target a pak on a hill but i could not get los to the target (even so i`ve examined the field of view via going down with the camera on gunner level and magnifiing to the target) but there was a clear field of view. after examining the los tool i found out that some leaves from a tree were hanging in the upper left corner (preventing los) of the field of view but i could still clearly see the pak from gunner level... sorry but i have no screenshot. maybe i will post some from a similar situation in a cmbn pbem were a panther shot my sherman through two bocage hedges and a treeline... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Targeting Buildings Gents, this has been covered MANY times. Here's a summary of the issue. If there is an enemy unit in a building and the enemy is SPOTTED by the firer, barring any intervening LOS block, the firer will be able to TARGET the ENEMY. Capitalized for emphasis. If a firer wants to shoot at a building, then the action spot is what is the target. In order to shoot at a building action spot, the action spot must be in LOS. The action spot is at the center of the building facade for each floor. (That is a slight simplification.) If you can see the edge of building, but no enemy in a window, you cannot fire at the building. If you can see the full width of the building, you can fire at it. (The above applies on a "per floor" basis.) If you can an ENEMY in the building, you can target the ENEMY. Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 If a firer wants to shoot at a building, then the action spot is what is the target. In order to shoot at a building action spot, the action spot must be in LOS. The action spot is at the center of the building facade for each floor. (That is a slight simplification.) If you can see the full width of the building, you can fire at it. I'll bear that in mind, because that doesn't fit with my memories. Perhaps it's the "slight simplification" getting in the way, but I thought the AS-per-floor was at the centre of the floor, rather than the facade, since people have experienced issues firing at shallow angles at buildings in the middle of rows, where they can see the whole frontage of the floor they want to shoot at, but the buildings to either side stop them seeing the middle (in plan view) of the floor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pak40 Posted December 14, 2012 Share Posted December 14, 2012 Targeting Buildings Gents, this has been covered MANY times. Here's a summary of the issue. If there is an enemy unit in a building and the enemy is SPOTTED by the firer, barring any intervening LOS block, the firer will be able to TARGET the ENEMY. Capitalized for emphasis. If a firer wants to shoot at a building, then the action spot is what is the target. In order to shoot at a building action spot, the action spot must be in LOS. The action spot is at the center of the building facade for each floor. (That is a slight simplification.) If you can see the edge of building, but no enemy in a window, you cannot fire at the building. If you can see the full width of the building, you can fire at it. (The above applies on a "per floor" basis.) If you can an ENEMY in the building, you can target the ENEMY. Ken No doubt it's been covered many times, but it is confusing to many casual and new players and, quite frankly, can and should be brought up periodically. If no other reason than to educate players (and hopefully persuade BFC to improve the targeting system to include facades of buildings and hedgerows and not just action spots.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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