Baneman Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I've mentioned the annoying vehicle oversteer issue in a couple of previous threads, but there didn't seem to be much interest and a couple of people theorised that I was issuing too many or too complex movement commands in a restricted area ( which is easy to do in bocage country ). But I have finally found a good example of a vehicle going a bit mad - not only is he not in a restricted environment, he wasn't even asked to turn at all, he had a straightforward straight-line movement command. Unfortunately, this was a Dawn battle, so I've had to artificially lighten the pics, I hope they're visible enough. Pic 1 - "X" more or less marks the destination of a Quick Movement command - the AC is already travelling in a straight line at this point. Pic 2 - at this point, he inexplicably decides to stop and do his thing. Pic 3 - and off he goes, now practically stationary and swivelling to his right. Pic 4 - limit of his turn. Pic 5 - He now trundles forward a couple of metres before realising that he's insane. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Pic 6 - and starts to turn back. Pic 7 - at least he now seems to know where he was supposed to go. Pic 8 - but wait, he's overdone it again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Pic 9 - turning back to the correct heading. Pic 10 - and finally gets that "going in a straight line thing" right. If this is considered to be an issue, I do have the save game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Pic 9 - turning back to the correct heading. If this is considered to be an issue, I do have the save game. Actually what I'd really like is the senario file and the save. The save so I know exactly where to look and the scenario so I can take a peek in the editor. My suspicion is there is something about that tile directly ahead. For some reason it seems it was either impassable or just not something preferential so it decided to drive around it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 It's a H2H QB I'm playing - the map is Meet-Med-Open-150. Dang, seems I had trees turned off from previous game, but even so, there's only 2 treetrunks and he only starts his shenannigans after he's driven between them ( movement order was careful to pass between them ). Where would you like save sent ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Yeah, the old tree-trunks-turned-off based-bug report. It ran into some trees it _thought_ it could navigate past, due to your "straight ahead" orders. Do you really think this is a bug? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Yeah, the old tree-trunks-turned-off based-bug report. It ran into some trees it _thought_ it could navigate past, due to your "straight ahead" orders. Do you really think this is a bug? Lemme take a look. Just trees might not necessarily do it. I want to check the base tiles in the area just out of curiosity. Baneman I pm'd you my email. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 Save file sent, thanks. c3k, it was annoying that I hadn't noticed I'd turned them off, but tree trunks normally don't cause problems if you plot your moves between the trunks and even if you "hit" the trunks, normally it just slows you down. The weird steer thing seems to be connected to something else. In another example I had recently, I had a Panther leave the road it was plotted to travel on and go cross country for some distance before "remembering" it was supposed to be on the road and actually turning back. Surely roads are "passable" ? Do roads have underlying terrain that can cause issues - ie. do adjacent AS terrain tiles go partially under roads or do roads start their own new AS ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Save file sent, thanks. c3k, it was annoying that I hadn't noticed I'd turned them off, but tree trunks normally don't cause problems if you plot your moves between the trunks and even if you "hit" the trunks, normally it just slows you down. The weird steer thing seems to be connected to something else. In another example I had recently, I had a Panther leave the road it was plotted to travel on and go cross country for some distance before "remembering" it was supposed to be on the road and actually turning back. Surely roads are "passable" ? Do roads have underlying terrain that can cause issues - ie. do adjacent AS terrain tiles go partially under roads or do roads start their own new AS ? I've had this happen quite often, especially if it's a long, straight road and I plot a long, straight movement order. They jump off the road and parallel it for a long ways, and then go back on the road at some point. It seems that is what your HT in the above example is trying to do...note that its turn parallels the turn in the road it's headed toward. But then again it could be the trees. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Save file sent, thanks. c3k, it was annoying that I hadn't noticed I'd turned them off, but tree trunks normally don't cause problems if you plot your moves between the trunks and even if you "hit" the trunks, normally it just slows you down. I haven't noticed tree trunks actually having any effect on movement. ISTR BFC saying that it would have been an AI pathing nightmare to have the AI drive round every stick, so they just let vehicles clip through. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 8, 2012 Author Share Posted October 8, 2012 I haven't noticed tree trunks actually having any effect on movement. ISTR BFC saying that it would have been an AI pathing nightmare to have the AI drive round every stick, so they just let vehicles clip through. I'm pretty sure that when you "clip through", you do slow down. Plotting your move to go between trunks saves you that ( minor, I know ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I haven't noticed tree trunks actually having any effect on movement. ISTR BFC saying that it would have been an AI pathing nightmare to have the AI drive round every stick, so they just let vehicles clip through. Yeah I seem to recall that statement as well. In this particular case the vehicle has actually passed the trees (There are 3 individual trees, it passed the first, traveled between the next two and then just past them decided to do the right hook) before starting it's little side journey. When I first looked at the start point I noticed the building a bit angled towards it's path. I know in building maps with angled streets that the path gets narrowed compared to a straight path and I thought that might be the case but again it seems to have passed that point with no difficulty. There is no terrain showing in the editor to cause the effect. The next few tiles were plain ground. I am going to play around a little tonight and see if I can't recreate this w/o all the extraneous action and if I can I will upload that for BF to look at. It could be there is something we simply can not see that is affecting it, but I don't think it is the trees. It would have started it's maneuvers earlier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 It certainly has the appearance of "boxing" round some obstruction. Perhaps it did not want to trip on the unseen, imaginary, deceased turtle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 In the poor light, the driver thought he saw a mine ahead. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 In the poor light, the driver thought he saw a mime ahead. Michael Fixed that for ya 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 No, no, no! The correct procedure when a mime is dead ahead is to floor the gas pedal. Same holds for accordion players. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Hmm, that would be an interesting Mod pack..... Add birthday party clowns, investment bankers, trial lawyers, timeshare salespeople and those perfume saleswomen in malls. Rules: play in Scenario Author Test mode, build the AI to make them DASH in circles around a small map containing only Marsh tiles and then just wail on them with Battleship guns and P47s with daisy cutters. Fellini or Patrick McGoohan would be proud! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I was going to argue the root cause was encountering a mouse. If a mouse can cause an elephant to shy away, as seen on "MythBusters," maybe that holds true for mechanical beasts, too? Baneman, That's what I call a well documented bug report. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Baneman, That's what I call a well documented bug report. Regards, John Kettler Mmmm no that's what I call a report of an oddity. A well documented bug report takes a bit more than that, but it is a start. I took that map (assuming that since it did happen there that might be the best place to reproduce the effect) and I grabbed a German recon formation deleting all but about 2 dozen vehicles. I then sent each approx down the line you did Baneman. At first I got nothing. They were all running true. Then I finally had one veer...left. Go figure. So kept going with vehicles futher back in the line and then finally got another to do it BEFORE it even came close to the trees. I think mjkerner may be closer to the mark and that it may be the road that is doing this. Trying to figure out a new map and what I want to test on it, but out of those 2 dozen vehicles, I got at least three doing something unexpected. That tells me whatever it is happens often enough I should be able to create something to reproduce the effect often enough to give BF something to look at. The other thing I want to check is weather conditions and pace some tracked vehicles just to see if it is particular to wheeled vehicles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 ... The other thing I want to check is weather conditions and pace some tracked vehicles just to see if it is particular to wheeled vehicles. Thanks for the efforts. I don't think it's peculiar to wheeled vehicles, I've definitely had it happen with tanks and halftracks as well, but on other maps. In almost all cases I've encountered before, the vehicle had some turn plotted, overdid it ( usually by about 30-40 degrees ) then turned back. This is pretty much the first time I've had one go completely batty on a straight move. My only suspicion about what's happening is based on watching a truck with a left 45 degree turn on a road plotted. Just short of the corner it turned right a bit, then went around the corner off the road before rejoining it and continuing. The route around the corner made me suspect that the plotted path is just a little closer to the next nearest AS and the vehicle AI is deciding to travel through that AS instead. But that's just a guess and doesn't explain some of the more elaborate excursions I've seen ( eg. the Panther going cross country rather than on the road ) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 To further illustrate, I created a composite picture showing the previously mentioned Panther's little journey. I was fortunate in that I also had the previous turn's movement plot to show that it was a perfectly normal order to travel on a straight - aligned with map edge - road. There are a few trees along the road sides which you can't see. It's not as weird as some I've seen, but it is inexplicable and, in context of a battle, if the road is out of enemy los and the field is not, could be ... awkward. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Schultz Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 If the enemy is anywhere near the clear side of the road(spotted units with the info through entire C3 chain), then vehicles will travel as close to your order as possible, but will travel behind whatever concealment they can find. You give the orders, but in CM the units decide whether they will follow your insanity. I have no clue why the original HT did what it did, but I have seen numerous examples of vehicles shying away from road travel to move behind concealing terrain. They do NOT like roads if the bullets are flying and the enemy can see the road. I have no clue how this is done, but I do know that it happens. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baneman Posted October 9, 2012 Author Share Posted October 9, 2012 Fair point Sgt Shultz - although in the above example, the closest enemy is over 1000m away and hidden by a rise ( the field slopes upwards ) - so the Panther is in fact, moving closer to the enemy although still not into sight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Just thought I would point out that the vehicle at the beginning of this thread is not an HT as it has now been referred to at least twice, but an AC. Carry on. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Wenman Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Just wondering out loud but is it because it has a FAST order ??? P 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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