Sound contacts for dead units

[cireland65]

Why does the game continue to show dead units as "sound contacts", why are they not just put on the map as a dead unit? Very frustrating planning an attack on a sound contact and then executing it to find out the sound contact is a dead squad or AT gun. :confused:

[Baneman]

Hmm, that is true.

I hadn't realised that was the case until my recent battle with Undercovergeek started.

While tinkering with the map, he'd placed a few "Destroyed" trucks ( as local colour ) in a Fuel Depot VL I needed to occupy and as my troops approached from the opposite side of a tall wall, I got sound contacts ( well, icons, the game also doesn't distinguish visual from sound contacts and IMO, those would be good to separate too, but I digress ) inside the compound.

I immediately thought he'd rushed some recon guys there in a jeep and my units were told to sheer off and approach more slowly.

Then it turned out to be the aforementioned KO'd units.

It is just a trifle bizarre that we get sound contacts from them.

I actually meant to mention it here, but forgot, thanks for the reminder, cireland65

[womble]

I find it odd that "?" contacts (whether they be the relicts of old, firm spotteds, or "tentative" contacts, visual or audible) which have been definitively spotted as not being there by some of your units still appear when you have no units selected. I know "no units selected" means "show what all your units see", but it should exclude "?"s that have had units stood looking at them, saying "Nope. Nothing there (any more)."

[LongLeftFlank]

I dunno, I'd personally vote for more spurious sound contacts, not fewer. More FOW, concealment, etc. = better, at least on higher settings. You almost can't have enough IMHO.

[womble]

I dunno, I'd personally vote for more spurious sound contacts, not fewer. More FOW, concealment, etc. = better, at least on higher settings. You almost can't have enough IMHO.

Really? You want "tentative" contacts next to squads of infantry in ploughed fields at noon on a clear day?

[Michael Emrys]

Really? You want "tentative" contacts next to squads of infantry in ploughed fields at noon on a clear day?

"I dunno, Sarge, but I'd swear that I saw something moving over there a minute ago."

Michael

[Baneman]

I'd be happy with more spurious sound contacts, but pre-destroyed ( ie. in editor ) vehicles shouldn't be making "enemy-like" noise at the least, and unless a destroyed-in-battle vehicle is burning, you could make a case for it being fairly quiet too.

"they left the radio playing 'tea-time melodies' when they bailed out"

[Erwin]

Once a unit has explored the area of sound contact it seems appropriate that the contact disappears.

However, just cos you killed something over a few dozen meters away, doesn't mean there still isn't something nasty there that you need to check out.

[womble]

"I dunno, Sarge, but I'd swear that I saw something moving over there a minute ago."

Michael

"What? Over there? Just where B team are stood? Lay off the hooch Emrys!"

There's a huge difference between Fog of War and interface embuggerance.

[TheVulture]

Except that '?' markers aren't just sound contact markers. They are unidentified unit markers and last known position markers too. So yes, the continue to show up at the last known position of an enemy unit until that unit is confirmed to be eliminated (or at least, all the enemy you've seen are confirmed dead / captured / routed) or it is spotted somewhere else.

(And the view with no unit selected ought to give you the best intel available, but sometimes I see a '?' there for an enemy unit that another squad of mine has confirmed is dead. Which is either a bug or an algorithm I'd like to have changed.)

[undercovergeek]

im thinking nows my chance to get in the fuel depot undercover and be ignored by the evil Axis forces!!

im playing a CMFI PBEM and it involves battling up a hill toward the VL (one of those unfair ME maps discussed elsewhere), at the start there were MG teams all on the crest of a ridge, ive cleared the ridge and moved on and its behind me, ive marched and driven over the dead bodies but i still get contacts there from the ridge

[ASL Veteran]

This isn't any sort of mystery. It's the result of relative spotting. Until a unit sees an enemy for itself it only gets that information through the information sharing between units that are in command and control. This frequently results in contacts for one unit if they don't have eyes on something even though another unit has fully spotted the destroyed enemy in that location.

[c3k]

In addition to relative spotting, the time delay for the information to percolate through the chain of command also needs to be considered.

"HQ, this is unit 7, we've got some movement over by the farm!"

"Calling all units, calling all units, be advised, there may be enemy near the farm."

"Hey, Sarge! HQ says there's enemy over by the farm! I'm glad they let us, unit 1, know about that!"

Meanwhile, unit 7 sweeps the farm and no one's there. Until that information percolates, unit 1 will still think enemy may be near the farm.

[Erwin]

But, then why not have mis-identification of friendlies as enemies cos they are in the location reported as hostile? Then we could have our battlefiend realistically full of friendly fire incidents as well.

Imo it's a game, and abstractions to make the game playable and fun (and not a PITA) are excusable.

[cireland65]

But why does one unit then ID a target as a dead unit, and then someone else gets a sound contact from it? And why a sound contact, what is on the field that is making your units think something is there?

In the scenario 18 platoon there are many dead trucks and tanks all to fool your platoon; you spot them and ID them as dead, move out of LOS with that unit and suddenly something is there again.

I can understand the unknown when no unit has had no LOS, but once LOS is established it should stay revealed (IMO)

Chris

[ASL Veteran]

The game makes no distinction between dead or alive. It's also not a sound contact but a 'contact', the contact being a reported contact. Squad A sees an enemy unit (dead or alive) and reports that through the radio net. Squad B doesn't see into that area but because squad A reported something there they get a 'contact' marker in that spot. So in the exact same spot Squad A sees a destroyed enemy truck and Squad B sees an unknown enemy contact. Until Squad B actually looks at the enemy unit itself the contact marker that Squad B sees in that location will never firm up to a destroyed truck (at least I don't think it will, although it's possible that over time it might).

I'm not trying to defend the behavior or tell you that you need to like it. I'm just explaining what's happening in the game.

[c3k]

Leftover coding from CM:Zombie Alliance? You'll NEED to have contacts for the dead in that game...

*******************

But you do bring up a valid point. I've been bothered by that, in that very battle, but didn't think to dig down into why it bothered me. Other than vehicles, can you think of other instances when the ONLY friendly that has ID'd a unit knows it's dead, but it gets a ? anyway?

Ken

[John Kettler]

(To the tune of the twisted Dr. Demento song "Dead Puppies")

Dead units,

Dead units,

Dead units aren't much fun!

They are not at our beck,

Still quite a pain in the neck,

Dead units aren't much fun!

They should cause no contact,

Making our units react,

Dead units aren't much fun!

Being dead, they cannot talk

Showing icons makes us balk

Dead units aren't much fun!

Martial clatter they cannot make

Nor their duty e'er forsake

Dead units aren't much fun!

Wait! They're not all truly dead

However much they may have bled

Dead units aren't much fun!

(end song)

Regards,

John Kettler