Book Recommendations - Bagration, etc.

[GerryCMBB]

Hello All:

I believe the first Eastern Front game will cover Operation Bagration and then on through the conclusion of the war on the eastern front.

Any book recommendations? I am probably not ready for Glantz-type stuff yet. I have not read much on the early years of the eastern front. I assume it's OK to dive in at any period? IOW, I shouldn't have to read Barbarossa first, etc.

Thanks in advance,

Gerry

[Artofwar]

Have you watched any of the movies yet ...lol

http://europeanhistory.about.com/od/dvdandfilmresources/tp/aatpww2dvdef.htm

My favorite books on ww2 but he did not cover eastern front are the Ambrose books.

http://www.nationalww2museum.org/about-the-museum/about-the-founder.html

Cheers

[Artofwar]

Gerry how is it you have time to read ... where you work at a library ???

[Redwolf]

The only book on Bagration that can possibly be relevant:

http://www.amazon.com/Soviet-Military-Deception-Russian-Practice/dp/0415408598/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1340976257&sr=8-1&keywords=deception+glantz

Soviet Military Deception in the Second World War (Soviet (Russian) Military Theory and Practice) Colonel Glantz

[GerryCMBB]

Just looking for recommendations. I am a slow reader so need to get prepared for the eastern Front game!

Really hoping there is something other than Glantz.

Gerry

QUOTE=Artofwar;1373011]Gerry how is it you have time to read ... where you work at a library ???

[Broadsword56]

That's part of the reason I've never gotten into the Eastern Front as much as NW Europe in wargaming -- for me the games and the history and books are closely linked, because a great book makes me want to game it, and a great game makes me want to learn more about a battle/campaign. But the problem with the Eastern Front IMHO is that we don't get the volume and quality of good grunt-level, small-unit accounts or histories a la Cornelius Ryan that weave the big and small picture together as well in the East -- because both warring parties were dictatorships, neither one had a free press, and their propaganda machines favored heroic mythmaking over the "tell it like it really was" school of history. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, of course, many more records have become available to historians. But the old veterans have largely died off, and the ones that are left -- at least in the books i've read -- still seem conditioned by their old habits under Stalinism not to talk too much about it and generally stress the heroic side of things.

(Now I expect to touch off a flood of counter-arguments, followed by lists of books that are accurate and great reading as well -- so bring it on! I'd love to see such a list, because I have no stomach for some of the dry-as-dust histories that are nothing but groggy armor stats or records of troop movements. Even some well-done novels would be worth knowing about.)

[MengJiaoRedux]

That's part of the reason I've never gotten into the Eastern Front as much as NW Europe in wargaming -- for me the games and the history and books are closely linked, because a great book makes me want to game it, and a great game makes me want to learn more about a battle/campaign.

I agree that the Eastern front isn't covered by masterpeices such as Martin Blumenson's Breakout and Pursuit, but it more than makes up for this via an excess of surreal, nightmarish horror so extreme as to approach the horribly comic. The weary, but horribly funny tone in Ziemke's Stalingrad to Berlin captures this aspect of the Eastern Front very well. I recommend Ziemke's book even though it is from the mid 1960s and has little in the way of Russian sources -- again there is a way it gets made up for in a round about way in that Ziemke's sources seem to be mostly the German daily army-level summaries.

[MengJiaoRedux]

Just looking for recommendations. I am a slow reader so need to get prepared for the eastern Front game!

Really hoping there is something other than Glantz.

Gerry

QUOTE=Artofwar;1373011]Gerry how is it you have time to read ... where you work at a library ???

[Mord]

Gerry how is it you have time to read ... where you work at a library ???

One can always find time to read. You just have to sacrifice in other areas. People spend probably a good two hours a night watching TV. Turn off the tube and there ya go...reading time. Or retire early and take a book to bed. The weekends, when you are out laying around the pool, at the beach, camping. Etc. I'd be lost without my books. I have about 500. They give me a sense of warmth and hominess. LOL. It's a bibliophile kinda thing.

for me the games and the history and books are closely linked, because a great book makes me want to game it, and a great game makes me want to learn more about a battle/campaign.

PERFECTLY stated! I feel the EXACT same way. CMBO opened that flood gate for me and I have never looked back. It is an awesome feeling to read a good book and then to be able to hop onto your comp and immerse yourself in what you just read. Or having just played a a kickass battle go to your book shelf and find something to read that enhances the experience. They are cerebral soul mates married by history.

Mord.

[Frankster65]

Hi GerryCMBB,

I would highly recommend Soviet Blitzkrieg by Walter S. Dunn, Jr. Probably one of the best books I've ever read about Bagration. He goes into the background as to how each side fought previously to 1944, compares their strengths and weakness in terms of those strategies and tactics, along with a superb comparison of the TO&Es and why they were set up that way. He then looks at same stuff at beginning of Bagration and what had changed along with the narration of the battle itself.

Beautiful detail, beautiful narrative.

Here is one link to the book.

http://www.stackpolebooks.com/productdetails.cfm?sku=3482&isbn=9780811734820&title=soviet-blitzkrieg

Hope this helps.

[sburke]

That's part of the reason I've never gotten into the Eastern Front as much as NW Europe in wargaming -- for me the games and the history and books are closely linked, because a great book makes me want to game it, and a great game makes me want to learn more about a battle/campaign. But the problem with the Eastern Front IMHO is that we don't get the volume and quality of good grunt-level, small-unit accounts or histories a la Cornelius Ryan that weave the big and small picture together as well in the East -- because both warring parties were dictatorships, neither one had a free press, and their propaganda machines favored heroic mythmaking over the "tell it like it really was" school of history. Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, of course, many more records have become available to historians. But the old veterans have largely died off, and the ones that are left -- at least in the books i've read -- still seem conditioned by their old habits under Stalinism not to talk too much about it and generally stress the heroic side of things.

(Now I expect to touch off a flood of counter-arguments, followed by lists of books that are accurate and great reading as well -- so bring it on! I'd love to see such a list, because I have no stomach for some of the dry-as-dust histories that are nothing but groggy armor stats or records of troop movements. Even some well-done novels would be worth knowing about.)

I think one of the issues of the Eastern front is neither protaganist was known for any level of transparency and historical records are seriously skewed from political/cultural/nationalistic perspectives. Not surprising considering the ferocity of the combat and the sheer level of hate on both sides on top of political leadership based on fear.

That being said Hell's Gate and Last Victory in Russia both have interesting material as long as one keeps in mind the previously mentioned caveats. It is much much harder to get the Russian perspective as there just isn't a lot of (translated?) material available. If you read through Glantz you will occasionally see some really good stuff, but you have to pay attention and that can get lost in the sheer volume of stuff. Considering the time period of the first EF game - summer 1944 one could also take advantage of that for the Soviet assault into Romania in the spring of 1944. Red Storm over the Balkans has a lot of good material.

[John Kettler]

GerryCMBB,

Read anything by Hero of the Soviet Union Dmitry Loza. Here's a seven page interview. He tells it as it was and had very broad and extensive experience, to include Matilda IIs. I have his DEFENDING THE SOVIET MOTHERLAND, and it's first rate.

http://english.iremember.ru/tankers/17-dmitriy-loza.html/

I Remember is a terrific source for grunt level Russian accounts, and the level of detail in some accounts is astounding, as seen in the Loza interview, to name but one. Just about every category you can think of is represented there. Will give you quite a feel for the Great Patriotic War!

Regards,

John Kettler

[LukeFF]

They are obviously aviation-centered, but the three volumes of Black Cross / Red Star do a good objective job of looking at the air war on the Eastern Front. All of them are based on recent research based in good part on the Soviet archives which were finally opened up after the end of the Cold War.

For ground combat, I have not read this one yet, but from what I've seen in reviews it's a good read: A Writer at War: Vasily Grossman with the Red Army, 1941-1945. http://www.amazon.com/Writer-War-Vasily-Grossman-1941-1945/dp/0375424075/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3PJOCPPJLE6O&colid=32T3ABBIG3LG6. It was translated in part by Antony Beevor.

[Lorgath]

Anthony Beevor also wrote "Stalingrad" which is a detailed account a long running battle in a certain city. I seem to recall he gets the right balance between operational detail and the personal accounts of those who fought. "Downfall" is more of the same, but about the fall of Berlin.

You may also wish to try "Russia's War" by Richard Overy, which covers the whole WW2 period from the Russian point of view.

[akd]

Anthony Beevor also wrote "Stalingrad" which is a detailed account a long running battle in a certain city. I seem to recall he gets the right balance between operational detail and the personal accounts of those who fought. "Downfall" is more of the same, but about the fall of Berlin.

Downfall is about the fall of Japan. Berlin: The Downfall 1945 (published in the US as The Fall of Berlin) is about the fall of the Berlin.

[Lorgath]

Ooops! I am, indeed, an idiot.

[JasonC]

Frankster65 got it right - Dunn is the best single source on this operation in English.

[John Kettler]

GerryCMBB,

RED PHOENIX by the Smithsonian's Von Hardesty is a first rate look at the fall and rise of the Red Air Force during the Great Patriotic War. It'll give you a real and surprising education on how conditions changed over time on the Eastern Front. It wasn't just weight of numbers, but aircraft in many cases better than the Luftwaffe's, combined with aircrew surviving long enough to achieve something, that the result of better tactics and operational employment.

Regards,

John Kettler