Glantz's Books

[GerryCMBB]

Hello All:

I would like some thoughts on these before buying. I have checked some samples, e.g. Barbarossa Derailed. They seem dry, as in Div X moved here, etc. He doesn't seem to highlight the personalities involved or have any personal stories intermingled with the army movements?

Are there other authors you would recommend instead for the Eastern Front?

Thanks,

Gerry

[Ranger33]

Soldat by Siegfried Knappe is pretty good and mostly about the Eastern Front. As he moves up in ranks there is less "action" but it is interesting all the same. At the end he is commanding one of the last active German units in the Battle for Berlin, which makes for very good reading.

Infantry Aces is an extremely entertaining read where most of the book is on the Eastern Front. There is stuff in here that would be too unbelievable to put in a movie. I can't vouch for it all being 100% true, but the soldiers discussed were awarded medals for their actions and most survived the war.

If you are looking for something more at the strategic level I don't know, I too would be interested in such a thing if it isn't too dry.

[GerryCMBB]

Yes, I should have been clearer. I am looking for something at the operational level. I am trying to get into an operational game. But the books would also provide the context for the EF game when it comes out.

Thanks,

Gerry

[c3k]

Hmmm, "entertaining" EF books? Both the ones recommended, above, are interesting reads. Knappe is far superior, IMO, since it is an autobiographical book.

The "Infantry Aces" book suffers from a poor translation into English and seems to inflate some of the actions. Having said that, it IS a book which fleshes out the awards citations for various Knight's Cross recipients, so there were some quite studly actions which it tries to convey. (It's one of a series of "Aces" books.)

Of the two, if I could only get one, "Soldat" would be my purchase, hands down.

Back to operational level: Ericson's "Road to Stalingrad", "Road to Berlin" two volume set is a great operational history. For detail (and accuracy), Glantz really is the main source. Glantz can be dry. Bone dry. However, some of his battle studies are quite good. Most, if not all, of his books suffer from horrid maps. Nothing worse, IMO, than reading an operational discourse which mentions, "division X moved to village Y and defended the river crossing" and then, when I look at the map, there is no village Y. If it's named in the narrative as an important point, it should be shown. Shrug.

I've got shelves bowed by the weight of the many EF books I've gathered over the years. I hate to say that I really can't say which, if any, of them would focus on personalities.

For a first overview, Ericson's books.

Ken

[kipanderson]

Hi,

Operational books about the Eastern Front that are also entertaining are rare. I have tens of them, so it does not put me off but I admit they tend to be dry.

However, there is good news.

Blood Steel and Myth by George Nipe. It is a very well written book on Kursk. Do not be put off by the fact that it is presented as just another “SS loving book on Kursk”. The SS Corps at Kursk had a couple of teams of photographers “embedded” with them and who’s film has survived. This is why nearly all Kursk books have a huge number of pictures of the SS units in them. I am a firm Russophile but still think it a good book.

Also on Kursk, Kursk, The Greatest Battle by Lloyd Clark. Superb! In fact so good at Amazon you will find my review on it giving it five stars .

All the best,

Kip.

PS. For a personal history, best tankers memoir of all time, better even than Ken Tout’s books is Panzer Destroyer by Vasiliy Krysov. You will learn a lot by reading it, the fact that he is not a professional writer, just very smart, adds to it.

[JonS]

Citino's books are all a good, entertaining, reads.

Hayward's book "Stopped at Stalingrad" is also good. While nominally about the GAF, he casts his net much wider.

[Childress]

Go no farther than Guy Sajer's The Forgotten Soldier:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Forgotten-Soldier-Guy-Sajer/dp/1574882864/ref=pd_sim_b_3

A French speaking teenager from Alsace Lorraine joins the Wehrmacht eventually ending up in the Grossdeutschland division. Fascinating, up close combat vignettes from the Russian front and superb literature as well. Only political correctness has prevented the conversion of this book into a Hollywood film. A Kindle version is available.

[ASL Veteran]

I highly recommend "Hell's Gate" by Douglas Nash. That is, hands down, the best operational level eastern front book that I have ever seen. It has an excellent mix ranging from the personal to the operational and he seamlessly moves from one level to the other. He also gives full OB and command information for both the Germans and Soviets so it's as balanced a study as you will find. It also has excellent and numerous maps and photographs. I think that his book should be the template for the way all military books should be written - no joke.

[Bil Hardenberger]

"Lost Victories" by Erich von Manstein.. still one of my favorites, "Panzer Battles" by von Mellenthin, another must read.

Bil

[76mm]

+1 for hell's gate, great book.

Raus' book is also quite good, at least at first, before he gets promoted too high.

i am reading kershaw's "war without garlands" now; not really operational, kind of a mix of tactical anedotes and home front issues, but so far quite interesting.

i've read, or tried to read a couple of glantz' books, they are just too boring. buy them if you are researching an operational scenario, otherwise I would pass.

you might want to check out "bloody triangle" by kamenir for a sov account of early tank battles. the topic is quite interesting, although the book is not well written.

i read craig's "enemy at the gates" re stalingrad many years ago, thought it was great.

[GerryCMBB]

Hello All:

Thanks to all. I am enjoying reading Hitler Moves East 1941-1943 by Paul Carell at the moment. It is a mix of big picture and accounts of some lower-level actions as part of an operation. Adds a bit of color. It is quite old though and I am not sure of its reputation.

Gerry

[76mm]

i didnt care much for carrell's stuff, a bit too propaganda-ish for me.

it's disappointing how few east front books are available for kindle, not easy to find good ones.

[PanzerMiller]

Go no farther than Guy Sajer's The Forgotten Soldier:

http://www.amazon.com/The-Forgotten-Soldier-Guy-Sajer/dp/1574882864/ref=pd_sim_b_3

Lots of controversy about this book...substantial evidence that it's fiction and not an autobiography...but still a good read.

For more info on this controversy, check out sources like:

http://members.shaw.ca/grossdeutschland/sajer.htm

FWIW...

[Childress]

Sajer, actually a cartoonist named Guy Mouminoux living in Paris, has defended his book in recent interviews. There is no more riveting read. Two of Cornelius Ryan's WW2 oeuvres were made into films; The Longest Day and A Bridge Too Far. This deserves to be next in the queue. Hollywood may shy away, however, because Sajer's account humanizes the Germans.

From Wikipedia:

However, some authors and other Großdeutschland veterans have testified to the book's historical plausibility, even if they cannot speak to the specific events in the book. Lieutenant Hans Joachim Schafmeister-Berckholtz, who served in the Grossdeutschland during the same period as Sajer, confirmed in a letter that he had read the book and considered it an accurate overall account of the Division's battles in the East, while also noting that he remembered a Landser named Sajer in his Panzergrenadier company (5th co), the same company number Sajer mentioned being assigned to (though there was more than one "5th Company" in the Division). Sajer himself struck back against implications of fraud or fiction by claiming that The Forgotten Soldier was intended as a personal narrative, based on his best personal recollections of an intensely chaotic period in German military history, not an attempt at a serious historical study of World War II: "You ask me questions of chronology situations dates and unimportant details. Historians and archivists have harassed me for a long time with their rude questions. All of this is unimportant. Other authors and high-ranking officers could respond to your questions better than I. I never had the intention to write a historical reference book; rather I wrote about my innermost emotional experiences as they relate to the events that happened to me in the context of the Second World War."

Sajer further stressed the non-technical and anecdotal nature of his book in a 1997 letter to US Army historian Douglas Nash, stating "Apart from the emotions I brought out, I confess my numerous mistakes. That is why I would like that this book may not be used under [any] circumstances as a strategic or chronological reference." After reading Sajer's latest letter, one of his staunchest critics—Grossdeutschland Veteran's Association leader Helmuth Spaeter—recanted his original suspicions of Sajer, noting "I was deeply impressed by his statements in his letter... I have underestimated Herr Sajer and my respect for him has greatly increased. I am myself more of a writer who deals with facts and specifics—much less like one who writes in a literary way. For this reason, I was very skeptical towards the content of his book. I now have greater regard for Herr Sajer and I will read his book once again."

Dutch film director Paul Verhoeven has discussed with Sajer the possibility of turning The Forgotten Soldier into a film.

[kipanderson]

Hi,

I agree that Forgotten Soldier is a great book and due the full the Band of Brothers treatment. But maybe one of Soviet memoirs would do a better job.

Panzer Destroyer by Vasiliy Krysov, referred to earlier, would make a better blockbuster series. More interesting from the Soviet view.

All the best,

Kip.

[sburke]

Hello All:

I would like some thoughts on these before buying. I have checked some samples, e.g. Barbarossa Derailed. They seem dry, as in Div X moved here, etc. He doesn't seem to highlight the personalities involved or have any personal stories intermingled with the army movements?

Are there other authors you would recommend instead for the Eastern Front?

Thanks,

Gerry

Yeah he is very dry, but also well researched. I have both volumes of Barbarossa Derailed and am finding it well worth the effort to wade through them to understand the point he is making, however that being said I am not sure they would be all that beneficial for an Op campaign as they do not go into that kind of minute detail. Also the 3 volume Stalingrad series (vol 3 not released yet) is another slog that I found worth the effort.

I'll add a +1 for Nash's Hell's Gate. Also George Nipe's Last Victory in Russia

[Childress]

Here's an O/T curiosity: Sajer published, in French, a comic based on the battle of Kursk in 2001.

[Michael Emrys]

"I never had the intention to write a historical reference book; rather I wrote about my innermost emotional experiences as they relate to the events that happened to me in the context of the Second World War."

This puts it more or less on the same footing as James Jones' The Thin Red Line or Norman Mailer's The Naked and the Dead, in other words a novel. I tried to read The Forgotten Soldier several years ago but just couldn't stomach it. But that probably has more to do with my general distaste for the Eastern Front. I don't really want to get all that up close and personal with it. The war tended to be ghastly and brutal anyway, but on the Eastern Front all semblance of a humanizing element was stripped away, leaving those involved with it at their very worst. No thanks, I already have a pretty good idea of how far we can sink into unredeemed brutality and don't need to bathe my mind in yet more details of hell.

Michael

[Sgt Joch]

I am sure JasonC will be along shortly, especially now that Carell has been invoked , but being a bit of a OstFront nuter myself, let me add my 2 cents.

1 . Glantz is a god, on the same level as Kubrick IMHO. He has access to the most recent Soviet stuff and his research is amazing. Yes, he is a bit dry, but what historian is'nt. . Start with his Kursk book if you want a taste. Just that book will give you a better understanding of the entire OstFront on an operational level, than any other book. His first volume of the Stalingrad trilogy : " To the gates of Stalingrad", is the best operational history I have ever read;

2. Erickson is very good, but more if you want a strategic overview. His stuff is also a bit dated since it was written in the 70s, before the Soviet Archives were available;

3. Carell is a nice light read for a rainy afternoon. Good if you want to know the Nazi WW2 viewpoint, not good if you want to know what really hapened. :cool:

[Collingwood]

Another good account of the Korsun pocket which I read recently:

"Korsun Pocket: The encirclement and breakout of a german army in the east, 1944" by Niklas Zetterling and Anders Frankson. It's a good account of operational and a couple personal recollections.

It's available on Kindle. I agree about the dearth of eastern front books for kindle.

Late war, excellent operational with a mix of personal accounts is:

"Slaughter at Halbe: The Destruction of Hitler's 9th Army" by Tony Le Tissier.

For the OP, the problem with readability of operational accounts is that they will be often concerned with getting dates, unit names and directions correct, and with the huge battles on the eastern front just one single operation, e.g. one of the Kharkovs, can take hundreds of pages to document. Glantz does this well, but I think everyone agrees it's bone dry stuff. However if you want to create a scenario for a wargame and be fairly confident you are involving the correct units in the right place, he's one of the best.

Great thread

[Collingwood]

- and forgot to add the one I'm reading at the moment which is available on Kindle too,

"Battleground Prussia: the assault on Germany's eastern front 1944-45" by Prit Buttar.

It's operational with some personal accounts included, so far it's very good.

[Bigduke6]

I'll put in two kopecks for v. Manstein's and v. Gudarian's memoirs. Both are (of course) self-serving and slanted. If you know what happened to the Jews in the Baltics then v. Manstein comes off as an arrogant, lying, aristocratic swine.

But that's the point. Both of these generals weren't just skilled at mobile operations, to a great extent they invented them. A read of their books is a great insight into the minds of truly great generals, and at the same time their human limitations. Like, Gudarian ignoring higher command and pushing his attacks, and being absolutely sure he was doing the right thing for Germany, and yet at the same time subordinating himself to Hitler for years. OK, he argued, but he still took orders and never resigned, he waited to be sacked.

To me this is the best kind of Eastern Front history, because it gives an insight into the minds of the men making the decisions, and at the same time they lay out in clear detail (albeit not always fully truthful) what they intended and how it worked out.

I don't know of any similar quality general officers memoirs on the Soviet side. There are thousands of general and even field grade officer memoirs out there from every imaginable branch of service, of course, but they were all produced in the Soviet era and for every useful bit of military information you have to wade through pages and pages of Socialist references vague and obvious, and "colorful" but probably invented conversations. Zhukov's memoirs exist in English. Katukov, Vasielevsky and Rokkosovsky all wrote memoires as well, just for instance, sooner or later I bet a translation will appear.

Recent research has produced some very solid operational history in the Russian language, for any one that can read it I highly recommend Tanki Vedet Rybalko, (Rybalko Commands the Tanks) which is an even-handed, factual history of Third Guards Tank Army in campaigns from the Volga to Austria. The write-up of 3rd Guards' on-the-fly crossing of the Dniepr (which, by the way, did some serious damange to Manstein's reputation as a general who could always predict the Red Army), is about dramatic as the Remagen crossing.

But even that book really is just an outgrowth of the official campaign histories commissioned by the Soviet army in the 50s - 70s. Glantz has written up most of them and several are available in English translation.

P.S. Personally I thought Hell's Gate was German-slanted. I am sure he stinted the Soviet side on the personal level, and on the operational level he seems to lean more on German history and research rather than Soviet. It's a detailed read but IMO it's not definitive.

[Vark]

Ah, the Ostfront, where we still drink from the tainted waters and convince ourselves it's healthy!

I liked Richard Armstrongs's "Red Army Tank Commanders the armoured guards." It is a profile of the leaders of six tank armies (Katukov, Bogdanov, Rybalko etc). Drawing on memoirs and other sources it offers a fascinating insight into Soviet operational thinking. Maps are quite poor (early computer generated) and there is some Communist schtick, but sometimes surprisingly critical and the author guides us through competantly. It really was an eye opener and a good counter-point to the " we destroyed five tank brigades but had to still retreat" pro-German blah. Now you can see why they had to retreat, because they had been operationally wrong footed and the Soviets were trashing their rear area units!

[MengJiaoRedux]

Yeah he is very dry, but also well researched.

Glantz can be heavy going, but there are amazing moments. After Stalingrad

has lots of gems like transcriptions of phone calls from STAVKA and reasons for refusals of Guards status. If you take Glantz and Earl Frederick Ziemke's Stalingrad to Berlin you get a summary of German army level reports (and maps from them in Glantz) and a smattering of glimpses of similar information from the Russian side. You have to use both because there's almost no Russian-based info in Ziemke and Glantz tends to provide more Russian-sourced information (mostly because it was rare up until he started to work).

[Ranger33]

Since this thread got bumped, figured I would just chime in and say that I read "The Forgotten Soldier" by Sajer after seeing it mentioned here and totally agree that it deserves the Band of Brothers treatment (Wikipedia says a movie is the pipeline). Even if it isn't all strictly accurate, the experience is very powerful and made me rethink the enjoyment I get out of playing CM in a way that no other war memoir has. I still love winning a battle through solid tactics, but I take no thrill in seeing the enemy fall, those pixeltruppen may be virtual, but they represent real people who went through a hell that few can imagine.