Erwin Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 "movie in the pipeline." Hard to see any movie that has a "sympathetic/amusing" look at SS troops getting produced. Even if it is made, I doubt it will please anyone who has enjoyed the book. Remember "Starship Troopers? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 GerryCMBB, I've read two books by Glantz, the study on WW II Russian Airborne Operations, which is very good and had wonderful maps (8.5 x 11 helps!) and the Glantz & House dryer than dust, with all but useless maps, KURSK. For Kursk, I think you'll find Cornish's oversize format KURSK way more useful and informative. Carrell's books are very good, in that he had extensive, direct access to participants at all levels. His real name is Paul Karl Schmidt, and he was a big gun in the Propaganda Korps, which is how he had such incredible access to the German participants. His HITLER MOVES EAST and SCORCHED EARTH are well worth reading, easy to read and full of grog juiciness. FORGOTTEN SOLDIER is a must read. This should really help: fm Armchair General Forum (Fair Use) Here is an incredible resource: A US Dept of Defence website which has almost every VIZh ('Voenno-istoricheskii zhurnal' A.K.A. 'Military History Journal') issue from 1982-89 translated into English and available as a free PDF download. Under the heading 'DTIC Collections' check the boxes labeled as DTIC's Technical Reports Collection' and DTIC's Full-Text Collection', then under 'Search for' type in the words 'USSR and Military and History and Journal and month and year'...They have about 80 issues with about 4-5 articles on WW II topics in each issue, on everything from tactics, strategy, logistics, C3I, campaigns, etc... http://stinet.dtic.mil/str/index.html These are meaty journals written by Russian military history experts with full access to the massively indexed Russian files on WW II, from which the lessons learned were used to guide future force development and employment. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 John, thanks for the link. 39 years ago, when I was 20, I first picked up Carrel' Hitler Moves East. As a kid, although fascinated by WWII, I stuck to ETO, MED, and PTO only, and never read a thing about it. What I knew about the EF was basically from Walter Kronkite narrating "The Twentieth Century". As I started doing board games I finally started to get interested in what exactly all those references to the Eastern Front in Hogan's Hereos really meant:), so I found Hitler Moves East in a paperback rack at a drugstore. I was hooked by that book, even though he has been accused of playing fast and loose with the facts. I'm still trying to figure out what US or Brit battalion of paras/rangers/infantry he claimed a company of Fallschirmjaegers (6 th Regt..--it's been about 20 years since i last read his They're Coming) captured in toto shortly after June 6???? My HME paperback fell apart long ago, but I just got the hard cover reprint about amonth ago. I look forward to re- discovering it for all the reason you said. I last read Sajer also about 20 years ago, but still have it on the shelf. I plan to re- visit that one soon, too. Erwin, IIRC, Sajer was in the Grossduetchland Division, not the SS. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLeftFlank Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Paul Carrell's "Barbarossa" (Hitler Moves East) and "Scorched Earth" sounds like it could be right up your alley, although keep in mind the guy was a Nazi propagandist turned postwar apologist. His bias is gigantic, including perpetuation of nonsensical conspiracy theories (e.g. Zitadelle failed mainly due to its betrayal by a Soviet agent in OKW known as "Werther") and outright fabrications. But he writes an entertaining mix of strategic context, operational detail and frontline anecdote, not matched by anyone to my knowledge except Beevor. EDIT: Oops, didn't notice pages 2 or 3 of this thread that mention Carrell numerous times. Oh well, too late. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerryCMBB Posted June 27, 2012 Author Share Posted June 27, 2012 Thanks to all for the recommendations. Funny to see mj's take on himself. I have always been interested in WW II, seen lots of footage, but only started reading some history in the laters years. I am amazed at the knowledge of many posters and this thread just shows why they know so much. Anyway, I look forward to reading more, even if I am 100+ books behind. Gerry 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 GerryCMBB, You're welcome. Here are some more resources. Short book list http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/sourcespage.htm The Myth of the Eastern Front (sweeping historiographic critique) www.army.forces.gc.ca/caj/documents/vol.../CAJ_Vol11.2_26_e.pdf In Deadly Combat http://www.amazon.com/Deadly-Combat-Soldiers-Eastern-Studies/dp/0700611223 Slaughterhouse (Glantz light?) http://www.aberjonapress.com/catalog/slh/maps.html The book list from hell! (Fiscal ruin ahead!) http://www.scuttlebuttsmallchow.com/wwii_ef.html Another good list http://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/wwii-eastern-front Requires Eastern Front filtering http://www.globeatwar.com/bibliography History Book Club list http://www.historybookclub.com/world-war-ii-books/eastern-front-books/?all=true Cataclysm review (must read) http://www.anagnosis.eu/index.php?pageID=498&la=eng Eastern Front Bibliography http://www.redarmylivinghistory.com/post6545.html Personal Narratives, German (would imagine you get get the same listing for Russians) http://www.librarything.com/subject/World+War,+1939-1945%09Personal+narratives,+German Eastern Front Campaigns http://www.librarything.com/subject/World+War,+1939-1945%09Campaigns%09Eastern+Front Glantz on Eastern Front Historiography Bias Pre-1990 http://www.soviethammer.info/blog/421474-pre-1990-bias-in-eastern-front-historiography/ These should keep you out of mischief for a bit! LongLeftFlank, It's been so long that I can't remember whether it was the Lucy Ring or die Rote Kapelle (the Red Orchestra) that got the plans for Fall Zitadelle into the Russian leadership's hands before the German field commanders even got their orders. Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 GerryCMBB, Something went wrong with the second link, but the doc's available in this list. http://www.index.forces.gc.ca/Srch.aspx?UsrQue=Myth+of+the+Eastern+Front&keepParametric=False&Action=Search〈=en-CA&CurPag=1&Scrn=Basic&ParaCnt=40&SLnksCnt=1&TaxLanguage=&ParamSources=&TaxMaterial=&TaxActivities=&TaxLocation=&TaxSizeRange=&TaxFileFormat= Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengJiaoRedux Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 GerryCMBB, I've read two books by Glantz, the study on WW II Russian Airborne Operations, which is very good and had wonderful maps (8.5 x 11 helps!) and the Glantz & House dryer than dust, with all but useless maps, KURSK. I agree the Glantz and House Kursk was a disappointment. The really strange thing is that the prose and the maps are much better than the average Glantz that I've seen, and yet, of course, the maps and the prose in Kursk are pretty bad. Still, however painful it is to get through Glantz, in many cases he lets you get a clearer idea of what was going on. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 I thought Clash of Titans was pretty good. It's a bit of a large helping though, and I didn't quite finish it. Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grisha Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Glantz really shines with his earlier works, which were more focused on why and how the Soviets won, not so much where and when and who. These were all works from the 1990s and earlier, while he was still in the Army. His real forte is doctrine and method, rather than history. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MengJiaoRedux Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 Glantz really shines with his earlier works, which were more focused on why and how the Soviets won, not so much where and when and who. These were all works from the 1990s and earlier, while he was still in the Army. His real forte is doctrine and method, rather than history. I agree. Moreover in some ways his early, very cranky, hand traced maps (as in From the Don to the Dneistr) are better than his maps transferred from microfilms of German Army reports or other sources, though I'm always amused to look at Glantzian German maps and realize that the 5th Panzer Army is better known as the 5th Tank Army. Also, in some ways, the Glantzian non-historical narrative with big undigested glimpses of Vatutin (for example) and STAVKA trying to figure out what is going on, works like some Gravity's Rainbow-cum-Kurt Vonegut-style surreal novelization of say Little Saturn. I'm currently struggling with After Stalingrad and I'm reading it more like somebody eves-dropping on STAVKA rather than somebody who expects a well-written history book. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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