Guerrilla Marketing Campaign - Good for All of Us - How YOU can Help

[thejetset]

I remember back in 1999 when I first heard about Combat Mission. How did YOU hear about it? I guarantee it was not through "conventional" methods such as magazine ads, advertising banners, TV Spots etc ....

In my case, it was someone posting a cool-looking screen-shot and the web-link to Battlefront on a Combat Mission board. (I think it was prior to "Combat Mission III - Russian Front".) It got me interested, I went to the BF website, downloaded the demo and then quickly purchased the full game.

It is in all of our interests to see more people FIND this game. And there are MANY MANY MANY people who would fall in love with this series but simply have not discovered it. However, we can help!!

By helping bring more people into the CM community, it will give BF more resources to make faster developments and added details. This will in turn generate MORE interest and therefore bring even MORE people into the CM community ... it is a positive feedback loop.

I propose that we work together to seed discussion forms in NON-BLATANT ways. We should work to help further develop the Battle Front facebook page located here: http://www.facebook.com/battlefront We should not just focus on forums that will just cannibalize our existing niche market and are direct competitors with BF (such as Operation Star and other "realistic" combat simulators). We need to find that 1% of the MASS Market crowd that would be very enthusiastic about this game. That 1% that enjoys certain aspects of FPS games and unrealistic "world-domination" games but simply don't know that Combat Mission even exists. Imagine how many resources Battle Front could have if 1% of the "Modern Warfare" and "Red Orchestra" community discovered Combat Mission??

Areas to hit that I can think of are the following:

- Mass Market Game Forums

- Mass Market Game .org "fan-group" forums

- Forums that focus on Military stuff (history, weapons etc ....)

- Re-posting facebook

- Forums that are other niche-market game focused

We should post results here and also post other ideas. Please include links so it is easy to go and provide "reinforcements" and support to any posts or discussions.

Please remember that this is a "Guerrilla" Marketing Campaign ... Therefore, the people we are marketing to will not even know it! (just as you didn't realize it when you first discovered Combat Mission) .... Keep it "real" and keep it "subtle".

[thejetset]

Other areas to plug would be Comments in Youtube videos and Online sales sites that allow reviews of games ... such as Amazon etc ...

[Sergei]

Actually I first heard of the game from an ad banner on some site like Wargamer.com. I clicked and got the beta demo and WHOAH!!!

[MarkEzra]

Wild Bill Wilder told me about it...he was doing scen for CMBO and told me to check out the forum. That's where I met all you lunatics hungrily awaiting the games Beta Demo release

[Boche]

Im a late arrival!, I believe I found Battlefront thorugh the Theater of War series of games while I was searching for a tactical sort of WW2 game. I searched the BFC website and Shock Force cought my eye. Downloaded the demo about 3 or 4 years ago (must have been!) and had absolutely no clue how to play or what the hell was going on, so I left it. Id say about a year later I was again looking for a good tactical game and I remembered Shock Force, and well the rest is History, bought all modules, and CMBN when it came out, and have been a proud member of the forum for about 1.5 years now, if I remember correctly.

[thejetset]

We all have our stories. And I'm pretty sure that the general consensus of our stories will be about 95% found the game through irregular marketing channels.

The point of this post is that we all start repeating these tactics in a somewhat organized way and post the results here.

We provide links to discussion forums that we have made posts in. We provide links to YouTube videos that we have left comments on. .... Then, other people follow up on those links to provide supporting comments.

If we do this correctly, we will start to funnel a lot more people into the Battlefront community. This will result in BF investing more resources into development. (or result in Steve and Co. moving to Caribbean.) If the former result happens, it will lead to faster development times and a more detailed game in future releases!

[thejetset]

A good example of a forum to start doing Guerrilla tactics on would be: http://www.tacticalgamer.com/forum.php

LOTS of potential recruits there!!!

[LUCASWILLEN05]

Since the Commenwealth expansion should , I hope be out "soon" would it not be sensible to do a follow up as the Siegfried Line Campaign covering Market Garden, the Bulge, the battles over Aachen/Hurtgen Forest and the Voges Mountains. I would anticipate german Volkgrenadiers as being the major new unit added here. If you covered the final battles of January - May 1945 Volksurm as well. Some new Allied tanks like the Pershing wou,ld be needed for the final phases and robably some additional German tanks like the Tiger II or, for those with a snsee of humour the Maus.

Lke

[thejetset]

OK Lucas. I understand your point with your post. However, I am not proposing that we blatantly work together to "spam" other forums. Our input needs to be logical and subtle. For instance, look at this post on the BF forums regarding new new "Operation Star" game: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=101622 How many people downloaded the demo based on this post?? I know I did.

This is what I am referring to. Either starting a new post that is not blatant spam, or responding in a natural way to a post (or comment on a video) that funnels people into Combat Mission.

Then, posting the links on this forum to call in reinforcements to further help your post.

We could get a lot more people into the Combat Mission community this way and that will result in additional resources for Battlefront.

Cheers

[Wodin]

I remember hearing about CMBO on the internet many moons ago. I'm sure it had been released online but not in the shops or some sort of thing, there was a buzz about this indy group making a great WW2 wargame anyway. So a few months later I was in Game and there I saw it on the shelf! Must have been about 2002. I know I had been offline for about three years and didn't get back online until 2003 so i was sort of out of touch with game releases and what not as I had the net from 96 to 99 as mentioned but was offline for about three years or so. I do know I was still offline when I bought the game.

Anyway, what needs to be understood is this will never be as big as a game like Company of Heroes for instance. Whatever way you dress it up it's still a true wargame and thus will appeal to wargamers and I suppose would pick up some more mainstream gamers along the way, more so than most wargames out there anyway..However it still will never become hugely popular due to it's complexity (i.e you need to use your head and use tactics far more than any other RTS style game) and lack of AAA hollywood style effects\visuals. You only need to read some reviews from the more mainstream game reviewers, some just don't get it thus mark it down as they compare it to other RTS games when really it should be compared to other wargames.

As for getting enough new people to give BF enough money to speed up the other releases I can't see it happening. It was only a year or so ago they hired a second programmer. Take into account how successful CMx1 was yet it was only relatively recently they added a second programmer it's very unlikely that posting in forums about the game will bring in enough new blood so they can hire another programmer which they would need to speed up the process. I'm not saying not to do it because the more money they make the more likely we will see all the other planned games.

All the forums I frequent anyway already know about BF and CMx2.

[Fizou]

I actually fond the CMBO demo on a pc gamer cd way back and fell in love.. I tried to find the full game but couldn’t do so. I was very disappointed. Some years later I found CMBB reviewed in pc gamer and then found my way to battlefront.com so that I could buy both BB and BO.

Love the CM series

[fry30]

Hey, good idea JetSet. Until I saw your reference to the Achtung Panzer game, I wasn't really comfortable with what I thought might be spamming.

You are exactly right. We should try and plug CM. I don't know about BF as a whole, but thats just my personal view. (I am not that familiar with them, and I don't feel like discussing my views on the entire company.)

A little free association here: I saw the Achtung Panzer thread on this forum. I downloaded the APOS demo around christmas, and have just returned from having played it for a couple weeks. I intend on purchasing it. I like its (seemingly) frequent upgrades. If more people buy it, there will undoubtedly be more games and their patches available to download.

That being said; I read (I believe later on in the thread) that someone said it only wet their palate for more CMBN. I completely agree, however there are many more things I want for Combat Mission. (Damage physics, more modding access -units -tile sets -theatres -years covered, etc.)

This, not to sound too redundant here, is impossible without financial support. Again, this is not possible without exposure. So in the most long-winded and self satisfying way possible, I have to say I (super redundant) AGREE!!

Lets get the word out! :cool:

[fry30]

Oh BTW, I only found out about Combat Mission from the CLOSE COMBAT forum. I only found out about Close Combat from some crappy Microsoft Disk I got... that might be besides the point, or maybe they should focus on getting the demo out more!!! I suppose the demo in all three cases, Combat Mission, Close Combat, and Panzer Achtung Star Operation, all influenced my decision to buy. Spread the message with the demo http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=277&Itemid=477 hyperlink. I can't exactly remember how to do it.

[thejetset]

Hey, good idea JetSet. Until I saw your reference to the Achtung Panzer game, I wasn't really comfortable with what I thought might be spamming.

You are exactly right. We should try and plug CM. I don't know about BF as a whole, but thats just my personal view. (I am not that familiar with them, and I don't feel like discussing my views on the entire company.)

A little free association here: I saw the Achtung Panzer thread on this forum. I downloaded the APOS demo around christmas, and have just returned from having played it for a couple weeks. I intend on purchasing it. I like its (seemingly) frequent upgrades. If more people buy it, there will undoubtedly be more games and their patches available to download.

That being said; I read (I believe later on in the thread) that someone said it only wet their palate for more CMBN. I completely agree, however there are many more things I want for Combat Mission. (Damage physics, more modding access -units -tile sets -theatres -years covered, etc.)

This, not to sound too redundant here, is impossible without financial support. Again, this is not possible without exposure. So in the most long-winded and self satisfying way possible, I have to say I (super redundant) AGREE!!

Lets get the word out! :cool:

Sounds good! I am sending you a private message that has some additional info.

[thejetset]

I also found out about Combat Mission originally through the "Close Combat" forum! I found out about Operation Star through the Battlefront forum.

My proposal is that we start making subtle plugs in other more "Main Stream" game forums with the goal of getting about 1%-5% of the people interested. We also need to work on inserting comments on YouTube videos for mainstream games such as FPS's and more unrealistic World Dom games.

Someone above said that most of the forums that he frequents ... that most of those people already know about Combat Mission. We aren't interested in that group. We need FRESH recruits. The only way to get them is to hit areas that haven't been hit.

We will need an area to coordinate from. We need a group of people that can act as "Combat Mission Guerrilla Marketing Volunteers".

I would propose that Battlefront opens a special, limited access, forum for all the volunteers that would be interested in undertaking this project.

Requirements would for all members to hit at least 10 on-line targets per week. You would also have to link your posts in this special forum. Along with the link, you can request any special backup that you might need. Such as other posts that would verify your comments.

There would be a sticky that would have the "guidelines" and "rules". We are not looking for SPAM. We are looking for people to make opportunistic, legitimate posts that seamlessly fit into an existing discussion forum or existing topic, game comments or YouTube comments etc ....

How do you benefit by this??

If we have 30 people working in a coordinated manner ... That is a minimum of 300 posts per WEEK that explain Combat Mission, post screenshots, and make links to the demo! That will guarantee an increase in the number of people who purchase the game. That will in turn give Battlefront the resources they need to step things up.

Battlefront has the PHILOSOPHY and the VISION. That is why we are all here. Let's help give them the resources they need to make that vision into more of a reality.

Let me know if anyone is interested. Please +1 here. Let's get this "Guerrilla Marketing" forum opened up so we can start coordinating the marketing campaign.

Cheers

[A Canadian Cat]

<snip>Requirements would for all members to hit at least 10 on-line targets per week. You would also have to link your posts in this special forum. Along with the link, you can request any special backup that you might need. Such as other posts that would verify your comments.

<snip>

If we have 30 people working in a coordinated manner ... That is a minimum of 300 posts per WEEK that explain Combat Mission, post screenshots, and make links to the demo! That will guarantee an increase in the number of people who purchase the game. That will in turn give Battlefront the resources they need to step things up.

Let me start by saying I applaud you basic idea. I would consider contributing. However 10 posts per week on other forums is too high a bar for me that's for sure. I think numbers like that might scare off some other people too. Just saying:-)

Now my story is quite different. I am *not* a computer gamer the most I have done is play a bit of Spore because my son got it for Christmas a few years ago. Got bored fast. When I was a teenager I build scale models and tried my hand at miniature war gaming but never had a satisfying experience. All that die rolling and tables plus the fact that nothing could be truly hidden. Same with a few hex games I played. None of it felt right. I kept trying to come up with ways to fix is with umpires mirrored setups in separate rooms but no traction - not enough friends with similar interests. Before I was 20 I had given up:(

I found out about CMBN because I overheard a conversation between two colleagues at work about a new version of a game they used to play had been announced. That's when I found out that I had missed 10 years of Combat Mission!!! The three of us immediately bought CMBB and AK and played PBEM games while we waited for CMBN to release. Now we have switched to CMBN. I really wish that I had learned about these games 10 years ago. I am not sure how a guerrilla marketing campaign would have reached me years ago but koodos to your for trying to figure out a away to reach more people.

I am sure there are people like me out there who don't know they are missing out on this great game.

[Wodin]

It all sounds way to much like spamming to be honest. If done worng then it would or could have a negative effect and I'm sure BF wouldn't want that, or be known, or tainted with some form of spamming stigma in other forums.

Either way I honestly think if your goal is to bring in more money to speed up releases you've no hope and are expecting way to much. There's no way BF is going to be able to afford another programmer through this marketing system and thats the only way your going to get the releases sooner.

Leave the marketing to BF as again I wouldn't be to happy if I was BF and got a name with regards to spamming due to enthusiastic fans who have good intentions but probably not the right marketing technique.

[thejetset]

Hi Wodin,

I FULLY understand what you are saying and completely agree. This project would not be just open for anyone. It would have to be a trained team that is monitored. If not, you are correct, it would either degenerate into spamming or start off as basic spamming because it was not handled correctly.

However, there is nothing wrong with marketing. A well-planned strategy like this could work and would not generate negative stigma for Battlefront. .... but if handled wrong, it would turn into the "worse-case" scenario you have mentioned.

The way I look at it is that we are ALL very enthusiastic about Combat Mission. Since none of us have the programming skills, design skills and database skills that BF really needs, (or the time), why not channel some of our enthusiasm to help them get the money to hire some of these people?? (or go live in Aruba)

This proposal is not: "OK, let's go and hit every board we can with a blanket message." .... The proposal is to get core group together, train them, and work so that people in other boards don't even know we are advertising the game.

....who is to tell?? How do you know that the post made a couple weeks ago regarding APOS wasn't done in similar way?? .... You know how crafty those Ruskies can be!!!

[Ranger33]

I know BF doesn't like Steam but I think at this point maybe they should compromise and put CMSF+modules on there simply to generate interest in the series. They can't be selling many copies of it lately since anyone who was going to get it already has. They aren't going to be doing anymore updates, so what's there to lose? It's a ton of free marketing if nothing else.

Here is an exact example of what I'm talking about. This guy created old school RPG's (90s graphics, but quality writing/gameplay) by himself for over a decade and until recently charged premium prices for them on his own website and never put them on sale (sound familiar?). A niche indie dev whose biggest problem was that no one knew who he was but his product had narrow appeal so there was no point in mass advertising. Long story short, he used to oppose Steam, but now he sells some of his titles for cheaper prices on there (with original prices on his website still). He has seen great success with this tactic, with his newest game on Steam selling far more copies than he ever imagined and despite making less $ per copy he is making far more money (his own words from another article). Some of his fans made the arguments you would expect to hear from some on this forum (sold out, betraying the core group, blah blah) but the bottom line is he is still making the games he wants to make, while having far more success.

Just something to think about.

[Sgt Schultz]

BFC could release a "Best Of" soundtrack CD on Amazon.

Seriously though, I like the concept but agree the line between getting the word out and spam is a fuzzy one. I push the game to anyone who shows an inkling of computer gaming interest of any type.

Get Combat Mission to trend on Twitter or make a viral CMBN video.

[Wodin]

Well CM Afgan is on Gamersgate I believe. So Gamersgate will take them.

I agree getting on one of those services with say CMSF and modules is probably the best advertising you can have. Alot of units will be sold and alot of newbies will find out about the series.

Funny it never really struck me that CM wasn't reasonably well known even by those who have never played the previous series. I think it is with gamers of a certain age as CMx1 recieved a fair bit of coverage in the end, maybe it's the gamers in their teens early to mid twenties that haven't heard of it. Though thinking about it I don't know one person in my real life that plays it nor I expect know about the games, though none are wargamers, are console owners and probably don't realise there are more games out there than the AAA mainstream ones. I think in the mid to late nineties those online had more of a chance coming across these sorts of games and forums, the net is a different beast than it was then. Websites like this one, The Blitz and The Wargamer I came across in the late '90's with little effort after surfing the net pre google (think I use Alta Vista) when looking for games like Close Combat and Soldiers of War, I expect now if you put in say Company of Heroes (I suppose on a similar level as Close Combat for the time) you wouldn't end up finding this place and the other sites I just mentioned.

[Moon]

Thejetset,

Guerrilla Marketing Campaign - Good for All of Us - How YOU can Help

We understand the concept and have had similar offers over the years. We have not, and still do not, want to participate in such a campaign, either officially or unofficially. Based on our experience and knowledge of our market, we do not feel this is a good fit for us.

I am closing this thread.

Martin