danfrodo

this is a really good campaign. We all know there were Soviet rifle divisions -- guess what they were made of? guys w small arms + mortar, arty, some armor support. and this is a very good representation of that kind of fighting, which was the majority of fighting. You can win this, and you will take casualties. Fortunately, as mentioned above, you've got more men than the germans. When I played it I expected more T34s but once I realized what I was working with this is a lot of fun.

I find I am agreeing w just about everything on this thread. So much of this comes down to getting to battle "first-est with the most-est". Videos by The Chieftain have (obviously) greatly influenced my thinking on this over the last few years. When Shermans first arrived, in N African desert, they were much better than anything the Brits had at the time. Even the 'awful' Lee/Grants were considered an upgrade over what else was available. Sure, shermans were, like the T34/76, outclassed within a short time, but they still existed on the battlefield -- which is more than one can say of panthers in 1943. And anywhere they weren't going against panthers and (very rare) tigers they were big trouble for the germans. P40s were kinda cool looking at least.

roger that, Mr Crowley, I think I misunderstood his point

yeah, If I am actually in a tank engagement I want to be in a pershing. But since there were basically none available I would actually have been given an M4A3E8+, if I were lucky. For me it's actually gotta be available. Not to disrespect the esteemed Mr Zaloga, he was just using different criterion.

what a fun discussion for tank nerds. The problem is the definition of 'best'. For some it simply means the best combo of firepower and armor, so it's the tiger. Others like to throw in mobility and say it's the panther. For me every tank is a trade-off of reliability, cost, weight, mobility, fuel consumption, firepower, first-shot capability (optics, turret traverse), crew factors, maintenence difficulty, and the biggest of all perhaps -- availability when it matters. Panther is great if available and working, but fails because unreliability which made it unavailable when it was most needed, at Kursk. I've read that it was unreliable mainly because it was designed for ~35 tonnes and hitler wanted more armor w/o understanding the engineering cost of the added 10 tons on the drive train. Any idiot can say "more armor and bigger gun is better!" without understanding the tradeoffs -- and next thing you know Porsche is designing worthless land battleships. Like transporting the tiger which required changing tracks so it could go on train, then changing again when offloaded. Of course in any given engagement I would rather have a panther or tiger than a T34-85, but I'd also rather have 5-10 T34-85s than one or two working panther/tigers, and that was reality. I vote for the T34-85 also. Great trade-off combo of all the big factors and had good enough firepower. And the soviets got it onto the battefield in time to make an actual difference.

and I just picked up two Ken Tout books, thanks for the tip Aragorn

Hey Aragorn, Have you read Zuehlke's books on the Canadian experience in Normandy (and everywhere else)? I've read most of these. Sometimes I would wonder if the Brits were trying to get all the Canadians killed but would then remember that Brit casualty rates weren't low either. https://smile.amazon.com/Mark-Zuehlke/e/B001HO8UPA/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_1 author's site: https://zuehlke.ca/ good Brit tank commander memoir: https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IRQITIY/ref=kinw_myk_ro_title

sounds like this scenario was perfect for you after all, Zaybz. It showed that this game is a challenge, but win-able (winnable? winable?). Normandy is the place to be I think for first purchase, especially if you want Commonwealth. I haven't used mods much but it looks like there's some amazing mods for Normandy terrain. You will need Normandy base game + CW + Market Garden, which probably costs as much as the buying the whole big bundle. I hope you can find the money, you'll be playing this for years and years.

this is the best thread in the history of CM. No, wait, in the history of the world.

operation clipper? what campaign is that? If it's fun, where does one find this?

The scenarios are all built to be challenging, so when I was new to the game I would often go into the scenario editor and add some extra units -- I was using quantity to overcome my low leadership quality. This is a very easy process and makes the game more fun while you are learning because you can have more success. Just add some tanks, or artillery, or infantry in the units section. Then go to deploy panel and place them. Save it to a modified name and then play. If, for example, they gave you 3 sherman, just add a few more. Winning is hard when you are new so give yourself a little help if you get frustrated. I don't do this anymore but it definitely helped me back when I was even more clueless than I am now.

that is too funny! I did the exact same thing. I thought I had them beat and launched infantry assault that went very badly -- so went back to save to try more cautious approach. So even after ~5 years I didn't do any better than you did. I agree w mjkerner -- get the full Normandy bundle. There's tons of great British/commonwealth content, mostly not in bocage. There's a Bourgebous Ridge scenario that is an absolutely epic tank battle. There's Canadian battles, also some user campaigns & scenarios. This one purchase could keep you busy for a very very very long time. I haven't played it all yet, not even close, and I bought it first. Plus lots of mods to make the terrain & foliage and lighting look amazing.

that kind of tactical thinking and tenacity says that CM is the right fit for you . So this is your first CM game? are you going to first get Italy -- lots of good content in that w all the modules. All the games are fun, I have everything except Afghanistan. I suppose the full Normandy package is my favorite, though I play them all. Shock Force and Black Sea are crazy good fun -- the weapons are insane compared to WW2. And with the new East Front module due to come out I'll be back in Russia -- well, actually back in Poland/Germany/Hungary - soon. I haven't finished this battle yet but I also took the farmhouse on the left and got fire onto a lot of germans. but they do seem to keep popping up in new places -- I really want to put some PIATs in the back of that elephant, I hope I can get there.

Zaybz, how'd you are in it. I think your plan to go hard left is the right way to go but there are some nasty surprises along the way.

Well, now that I am into the heat of this little battle I only have one question: why would Battlefront put this on the demo? -- it's actually a very nasty fight. The AI (germans) have a ton of firepower relative to the Brits. An experienced player can win this, but it is not a very good battle for a new person. Germans have multiple infantry guns, lots of MGs, and an AA wagon, plus a nice reverse slope for dug in defense. The brits have some crappy little armored cars and a company of infantry with some 81mm mortars. This would be a good demo if the Brits at least had more arty or some light tanks. Having said that it's a really good battle. Unfortunately I could see a new person getting really frustrated with it.

I've also been watching CM AARs instead of war movies. The AARs are just better.

and remember you have smoke from you little 51mm mortars. If you have some evil-doer blocking your advance you can blind him long enough for your units to get into some advantageous position. or drop some of the 51mm HE on him. It's the secret power of the british rifle platoon for knocking out german MG positions.

cool, zaybz, have fun! I am playing this one also right now but just a few minutes in. San Pietro quiet.... so far

also note that from San Pietro it's hard to see the bridge & ford due to the trees & orchard in the way

Hi Zaybz, I haven't played this one but just loaded it up and looks like I should play it. Your intel says San Pietro is unoccupied as of last night. If so, you've got a great spot from which to direct fire from your 81mm off map mortar. The right side has really good views of the objective area so I'd at least move some recon over there. You have a little time before your reinforcements arrive and you have a full hour to work with. I'd say don't commit too much until you've had a look around w those scout cars and some infantry scouts. You know how to split off 2 man scout teams from your infantry squads? You can deploy your initial units anywhere along your edge of the map, so try not to get too biased by the initial set up. You need information ASAP and then can make a better plan. San Pietro looks great but the germans know that also and may have put some outposts there in those tough stone walled building.

seeing this reminds me I've never played as Italians, syrians, or russians-CMBS. But I certainly have had great fun playing all the other factions, including germans. Playing as soviets in RT was an unexpected treat, I didn't realize it would be as good as it was. I want this module, but I want it right more that I want it now -- imagine a long campaign for central Berlin and the final bridge is buggy in the last battle.

well, considering The Former's love of all things Putin and authoritarian, I think it's quite apt.

I suppose the first question would be "who's the audience?" for the T34 parade. It's probably domestic. By tying himself to a glorious historical episode of national heroism, Putin is trying to legitimize himself to his own people. As if Putin is the only playing on nationalism. Now if Russia could just keep making those WW2 movies since they are the only place making them. But those T34s! what an excellent solution to a big problem in short amount of time. Kursk showed USSR was massively outgunned and they needed a stop-gap solution, fast. So while they were developing the heavies that would come later, they put a bigger, better gun on an upgraded version of a proven carriage. And still kept it to 35 tons so it was fast and maneuverable across bad terrain and didn't gobble fuel. It wasn't heavy armor but at least it could fight w the bigger german tanks. A solid solution from an engineering and industrial standpoint IMO.

Progress but not done yet. Final battle (#16) on US + Brit path in Damascus. CharacterCount: your destiny awaits! this is a really fun campaign, enjoy. I will finish this and then at some point go back & take alternate path.

Once I finish battle #16 in Highland Games, hopefully this weekend, I'll probably take a short CM break to play FOG:Empires. I got the Persia DLC many many months ago but haven't touched it due to CM and lack of sufficient time. Regular FOG is OK, but would be amazing if it were WEGO. I don't like IGOUGO turn based tactical very much, it's just too 'stiff'. Maybe we need a CM:Ancients someday.