Vet 0369

Finally! A confirmation of the the explosive power of my BMP-3s while playing CMBS. Looks just like my game.

Haiduk, my reply has little to nothing to do with this post. I just want to say that I sincerely appreciate your balanced “reporting” here. While many others were indiscriminately skinning the s*%t in this thread, you have done an extraordinary job in not “getting into it.” I commend you.
To all the other posters on this thread, who do not live in Ukraine, and are not under shelling, and watching friends and loved ones blown apart by this invasion, “you don’t have a dog in this fight,” and I politely suggest that you STFU!

Haiduk, my reply has little to nothing to do with this post. I just want to say that I sincerely appreciate your balanced “reporting” here. While many others were indiscriminately skinning the s*%t in this thread, you have done an extraordinary job in not “getting into it.” I commend you.
To all the other posters on this thread, who do not live in Ukraine, and are not under shelling, and watching friends and loved ones blown apart by this invasion, “you don’t have a dog in this fight,” and I politely suggest that you STFU!

While I don’t think Putin will be overthrown by a popularist movement, I wouldn’t use percentages to predict outcomes. When the English Colonists in North America (I.e. the 13 colonies) decided to “throw off the yoke of The Crown,” only one-third of the colonist population supported the break with England. Of that one-third that supported the break, only one-third actively supported the break. That means that only one-ninth of the population actively supported the Revolution. On the other hand, of the remaining two-thirds of the population who didn’t support the Revolution, one-third actively opposed the Revolution. That means that for every one colonist that actively supported the Revolution, three colonists actively opposed it! By those counts, the American Revolution should have failed, and very nearly did.

On U.S. mortar rounds, at least the 60mm, there is a bore-riding pin that’s spring loaded to eject (about 30 meters IIRC) after the round leaves the tube to arm the fuse. I’m sure they can be removed with a little work. I know from experience of dropping an illum down the tube and having it start to tick in the tube, that they don’t always work as a safety. I’ve also had the pins bounce off my helmet as they exited the tube that the fuse can arm before the design distance.

On U.S. mortar rounds, at least the 60mm, there is a bore-riding pin that’s spring loaded to eject (about 30 meters IIRC) after the round leaves the tube to arm the fuse. I’m sure they can be removed with a little work. I know from experience of dropping an illum down the tube and having it start to tick in the tube, that they don’t always work as a safety. I’ve also had the pins bounce off my helmet as they exited the tube that the fuse can arm before the design distance.

On U.S. mortar rounds, at least the 60mm, there is a bore-riding pin that’s spring loaded to eject (about 30 meters IIRC) after the round leaves the tube to arm the fuse. I’m sure they can be removed with a little work. I know from experience of dropping an illum down the tube and having it start to tick in the tube, that they don’t always work as a safety. I’ve also had the pins bounce off my helmet as they exited the tube that the fuse can arm before the design distance.

On U.S. mortar rounds, at least the 60mm, there is a bore-riding pin that’s spring loaded to eject (about 30 meters IIRC) after the round leaves the tube to arm the fuse. I’m sure they can be removed with a little work. I know from experience of dropping an illum down the tube and having it start to tick in the tube, that they don’t always work as a safety. I’ve also had the pins bounce off my helmet as they exited the tube that the fuse can arm before the design distance.

One can probably compare it to the 1942 strike on Tokyo. While it might have done some appreciable damage, the main purpose might have been to force the Russians to redeploy air defense units to protect those vital assets. Either way, it’s a win for Ukraine.

Thank you for the edit. I didn’t realize that it stopped being referred to as “The Ukraine” in 1991 after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. Obviously, 40 plus years of correctly calling it “The Ukraine” is a difficult habit to break, especially for someone my age.

Yes, corruption exists everywhere at different levels. As far as I’m concerned, the most visible corruption in the U.S. are called “political action committees (PACs)” and “Lobbyists.”

Yes, corruption exists everywhere at different levels. As far as I’m concerned, the most visible corruption in the U.S. are called “political action committees (PACs)” and “Lobbyists.”

Yes, corruption exists everywhere at different levels. As far as I’m concerned, the most visible corruption in the U.S. are called “political action committees (PACs)” and “Lobbyists.”

Yes, corruption exists everywhere at different levels. As far as I’m concerned, the most visible corruption in the U.S. are called “political action committees (PACs)” and “Lobbyists.”

The Norwegian people treated us the same way when we were there for NATO Operation Teamwork in September, 1976. It is an enormous morale boost to feel the population appreciates your presence. Not like SanFrancisco when I returned from Fleet Marine Force, Pacific (FMFPac) in 1971.

The Norwegian people treated us the same way when we were there for NATO Operation Teamwork in September, 1976. It is an enormous morale boost to feel the population appreciates your presence. Not like SanFrancisco when I returned from Fleet Marine Force, Pacific (FMFPac) in 1971.

I for one will never assume that someone is “incapable” of doing anything. If you gives monkey a typewriter, it’s bound to hit the right key sometimes. For those of you who are too young to have used a typewriter, it was the keyboard that we used before they were connected to computers.

While I can completely understand your evolved feelings about NATO, as I understand it, NATO has it’s hands are tied by it’s own charter. It cannot enter a conflict between non-NATO members. I believe that Libya was a different situation. I think that NATO was able to set up the “no-fly zone” and intercede because the Government of Libya bombed a U.S. air carrier over Scotland. That would undoubtedly have triggered an “Article V” of the NATO Charter, allowing such an action.
What really infuriates me, as a U.S. Citizen, and one whose family has lived within 15 miles of where we live now, for just shy of 400 years, is how the U.S. failed to abide by it’s 1994 agreement to protect Ukraine in 2014 by the weasel words of “well, we can’t be sure the little green men are Russian.” What really worries me is that the SAME person that handled that response is handling this invasion of Ukraine when there is no doubt of the aggressor, and STILL refuses to meet it’s obligations of the 1994 agreement. That disgusts me.

While I can completely understand your evolved feelings about NATO, as I understand it, NATO has it’s hands are tied by it’s own charter. It cannot enter a conflict between non-NATO members. I believe that Libya was a different situation. I think that NATO was able to set up the “no-fly zone” and intercede because the Government of Libya bombed a U.S. air carrier over Scotland. That would undoubtedly have triggered an “Article V” of the NATO Charter, allowing such an action.
What really infuriates me, as a U.S. Citizen, and one whose family has lived within 15 miles of where we live now, for just shy of 400 years, is how the U.S. failed to abide by it’s 1994 agreement to protect Ukraine in 2014 by the weasel words of “well, we can’t be sure the little green men are Russian.” What really worries me is that the SAME person that handled that response is handling this invasion of Ukraine when there is no doubt of the aggressor, and STILL refuses to meet it’s obligations of the 1994 agreement. That disgusts me.

I don't see how this is going to work. While it looks like you are right and many Russians do want to have a "strong man" at the top who somehow restores Russia to its former glory, how can you force them to change their mind? There is no historical evidence that punishing a people for their government ever worked (correct me if I missed something). There are a bunch of countries which had sanctions imposed on them for decades like Cuba, Iran, North Korea. Did they overthrow their government? No, on the contrary isolation help the respective regime to tighten its grip.
As a German I'd say let's look at what we can learn from history: As Steve pointed out, after WW1, Germany was isolated and severly punished. What good did it do? It only served to give the Germans a deep feeling of humiliation combined with growing resentment towards democracy. The latter because a) they actually stuck to the Versaille Treaty and paid the reparations and b) since democracy really has to be learned, the democratic parties grew quite detached from the people and often only served their own needs. Added to all that came worldwide economic crisis of 1929 which struck (as far as memory serves) Germany the hardest in all of europe. Enter Hitler, the "strong man" who gave the people a feeling of "being someone again", improved the economic situation (doesn't matter that hald of it was based on plans of the previous government and the other half was indebting the country like there's no tomorrow, what counts is perception). By contrast, after WW2, the (western) Allies helped Germany and after a relatively short time Western Germany was welcomed back to international community (again, doesn't matter that this in large parts wasn't kindness but needing the Germans agains the Soviet Union and the Marshall Plan helped the US at least as much as it helped Germany, again, what counts is perception).
So, now there is Russia. After the fall of communism what happend? In Russian perception democracy just meant a weak and always drunk Boris Jelzin who stood by and watched while corrupt oligarchs together with "Western" capitalist companies plundered Russia. This in combination with seeing how the once mighty Soviet Union was now, as Russia, only called a "regional power" by western politicians that could do nothing to prevent the former enemy (USA = NATO = EU (perception...)) from encroaching on their borders. Enter Putin. And I fail to see how this would change with further isolating Russia after a hypothetical regime change.
That said, I'm no Russia-Apologist, it doesn't justify attacking another country. Still it would be a grave mistake not to see that pattern and to draw the necessary conclusions from it.

And this is a prime example of “if we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.” We learned a lesson from the WWI vengeance reparations, and not only didn’t impose massive reparations on Germany after WWII, as far as I know, but we implemented the “Marshal Plan” to help rebuild BOTH Germany and Japan. Seems to me that those policies had MUCH better results than “vengeance based reparations.” Vengeance is also what has continued the millennium long blood feuds that still exist in many countries.

I have to say up front that I’m not a pacifist or and apologist. “ I don’t “turn the other cheek.” I will make sure they never do it again. I simply try to use an appropriate method to knock out their teeth. What I’m saying is that the response to this atrocity must be considered and calculated, and not based on “vengeance.” I’m very happy to say that I believe the leaders in the West, and the Ukraine have the responsibility to assess those punishments, and I pray they are considered and measured based on possible effects down the line, and not on vengeance.

Welcome aboard!

And this is a prime example of “if we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.” We learned a lesson from the WWI vengeance reparations, and not only didn’t impose massive reparations on Germany after WWII, as far as I know, but we implemented the “Marshal Plan” to help rebuild BOTH Germany and Japan. Seems to me that those policies had MUCH better results than “vengeance based reparations.” Vengeance is also what has continued the millennium long blood feuds that still exist in many countries.

And this is a prime example of “if we fail to learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.” We learned a lesson from the WWI vengeance reparations, and not only didn’t impose massive reparations on Germany after WWII, as far as I know, but we implemented the “Marshal Plan” to help rebuild BOTH Germany and Japan. Seems to me that those policies had MUCH better results than “vengeance based reparations.” Vengeance is also what has continued the millennium long blood feuds that still exist in many countries.