Vinnart

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet? ....... Yes, kids are annoying in the back seat on a long trip. When will it be finished? When will it be finished? When will it be finished? ..............Yes, popes are annoying to painters working on big job like the Sistine Chapel ceiling. And the best answer is...... by Michelangelo.... "It will be ready WHEN ITS FINISHED".

That is EVERY major retailer. I have dealt with large companies with Spencer's Gifts being probably the biggest. True, one will make less profit with a heavy hitter with a lot of leverage over dealing with a Mom and Pop shop , BUT you will make it 1000 fold in volume big time which will allow one to develop their product, and the exposure will develop ones brand. Example of volume difference - "I'll take dozen" vs "I'll take 3,000, but i'll pay #" so I had no problem dealing with them making less profit per unit. It is just another line in the water, and a link is allowed on the store page on Steam to lead someone to buy it direct instead if someone wants. My 2 cents on the whole matter as a business man. Put as many lines in the water as possible and suck it up to catch as many fish both big and small as they all add up. In the end as long I got my CM i'll sleep good at night whether BF ever Steams or not. However, I do think they would make more money in the long run if they did though. Perhaps even enough to develop CM for 6v6 real time multiplayer Now to the original reason for the thread. In order to play REAL TIME multiplayer games one needs a message program to get it going unlike WEGO which email is surface. Battlefront does not have this here nor any support really for playing the game in real time, However Steam does. Hence the logic for the thread. I'll add you Aquilas and perhaps we will get a game sometime. I prefer my CM WEGO in it's present state, but dabble in real time to break it up sometimes and for the different experience. I really only like playing real time with a platoon or two of infantry only . Anything more is just too much to mange in a game like CM compared to other RTS.

Those look good Mord. My only constructive criticism from someone who understands visual composition and eye flow movement directing is to have the portraits facing the other way In toward the panel instead of out since they are on the end of the panel. This creates a visual comfort in directing the eye in toward the panel to start the flow left to right where you want it rather than pointing out of the panel. Very easy to do just flip them horizontally.

That is what I am getting at with the vid first post which was not to show off Squad per say as cool as it is as FPS, but rather the feeling of what it would be similar to in say a 5v5, 6v6 if Combat Mission offered this for real time play. Imagine the fun of team orientated tactical game play in CM! My belief is that when the developers first conceived "Iron" mode it was likely to be geared to the Multi-Multiplayer feature they were envisioning to someday implement with players controlling platoons with a force commander coordinating the team. I could envision 3 types of team FOW settings that are separate from "iron", warrior ect... Hardcore: This setting would be the hardest for the commander to direct the team given the game as it currently is. All they would have to go on are the FOW icons that his units get reports on, what his units actually spot, and reports from the platoon leaders. I can't help but think the commander will need to see more like the tac map the video showed to be able trac and make good decisions, or have some sort of map to track and mark on. Perhaps more frustrating than fun who knows, but there to try. Regular: This setting gives the commander the view of all the units just like when one plays single player now except they control the least. This simulates the tac map of the Squad video giving the commander the overview to direct the players who only see what their units see. I believe this would create a dynamic co dependency between the players who control more units and the one who sees the most, the commander. Team FOW off: This setting allows the entire team to see the entire force just as one plays single player now. This may be ideal for training, for more casual games, or for fewer players like a 2v2. Observers: Just as in the squad video when the dude dies and could just watch it would be cool to have slots for people who just want to watch the battle. And Lastly for Real Time single player to be much more fun and controlable and less frustrating so you know what is going on around while the camera is elsewhere THE ROSTER. This would be a hit game! Rarely does a game come forward with something truly original in a genre. Sudden Strike, Men of War, Company of Heroes ect... Are nothing like the game described here. None have a command structure, none have a dynamic FOW system, none really have that realism that there is a strong niche for. I could see lots of ARMA and Squad dudes getting into a RTS/RPG game like this. Real Time RTS offers that same type of rush one gets when playing FPS only less reliant on reflexes.

Here is a very entertaining and realistic FPS cousin of Combat Mission experience that I can imagine being similar for multiplayer real time in Combat Mission only on a different scale with players controlling platoons instead. I do hope it is made some day as it would be so awesome to play and would fill a niche for those who want realism in a RTS like these guys are playing in this most realistic FPS called Squad. There would be nothing else like it out there from what I have seen. A command structure, team FOW as well as enemy FOW. Some good ideas in this game Squad to check out. I like how they can mark on a tactical map for the team to see the plan. This is a cool video showing the fun of team orientated realism first from the 1st person perspective then later from a RTS perspective. Pretty cool like watching a real live Combat Mission game with each soldier being controlled by a person with each player getting only one life. No spawning. When you die you get to watch it all unfold from RTS view.

Well, if there is enough interest in these products I can make it happen. Of course Battlefront would have to give the ok and a licensing deal made.

Good show and well played Ian. Congrats on the win! Good explanations too in understanding your thought process. Showing the orders given should help especially new players understand that you can't run your men ragged. It really is amazing the similarities between the game and the core of the martial arts when it comes to the principle of how important conserving energy is.

Thanks for the time and effort in putting on the show Bil. Just goes to show how quick the tap out can come in the deadlier modern battlefield. I'm sure Baneman feels a little vindicated too now in a round about way seeing the tables turned. From following Ian's side I agree he played a good game especially in his use of the terrain to advantage. You're right in that you both have similar play styles. Even your presentation style is similar.

That's is what I would have to do too as playing without my mods would throw me out of the "groove." big time. I can't play without my mods being set up first. The game just does not read visually organized without mods that improve this. Bit of a pain in the arse to have to keep switching your mods out every turn Bil , but I understand BF's perspective for these presentation AAR's in wanting the game shown as it comes out of the box as the customer will receive it.

Been sitting on this for awhile and figured it about time I release it. Vin Geometric Icons CMBS + bonus Arrow Bases First, special thanks to Juju, Wolf, and Bil for all their original contributions from which I have drawn from to create this mod, and it’s concepts. If you are familiar with my other Icon mods this one works the same in using different colors for spotted and FOW icons, along with different colors for fortifications icons making set up much more visually organized. Each unit class has a unique geometric shape making it much easier to differentiate unit types while making icons smaller. Newest Feature: New HQ icons. HQ units stand out much better now using contrast for visual emphasis while having a more interesting look with a white star icon for USA, Gold Star for Ukraine, and Russian Army Star for Russia. READ instructions on how to swap blue HQ’s. BONUS Arrow Bases mod included! Enjoy! Vin (vinnart) Here is link to get at CM Mods: http://cmmodsiii.greenasjade.net/?p=6942

Yes, I need to get used to using it more now it is there. I still go by eye most of the time having played so long without it (grid mod helps too). Ok HULL DOWN you're getting a hotkey on the N52!

I wonder if the CM real time multiplayer (2v2 or more) concept I imagined was along the same lines BF was envisioning all those years ago. Kind of fun to re-read this after so many years. If anyone wants to discuss RT multi- multiplayer concepts you're more than welcome to post it in that thread.

Nice screen shots. Something tells me though that the MG team on the roof isn't going to live too long if he stays there. Not much cover there on those low wall roofs from what I remember from CMSF. What is you intent with him Ian? Those roof types were death traps from recollection. The higher wall type weren't too bad though from what I recall.

Good luck Ian! Too bad you can't use my Canadian mod for this showcase. Has a nice maple leaf as the HQ floating icon.

Let's get ready to rumble! Really though, as far as the game is concerned what is the difference between a "probe" and "attack" since both are "attack/defend" battles? I always prefer the dynamics of "meeting engagement" for multiplayer since both players must find themselves in one role or another or both of attack and defend. Look forward to following the show.

Good to see you back Baneman, and that you didn't get on the truck. All the Best in a speedy recovery. If you can't drink because of your heart, don't worry lad I'll have some Johnny Walker for you

John, I came from hardcore RTS roots before coming to CM. Grant it out of the box it is more WEGO friendly as that is where BF's focus has been, but I tell you controlling CM in a very fast efficient RTS fashion is certainly possible and I would say I like the control of it a lot. For the camera I prefer the default setting, but I agree it needs some getting used to as it is different to other games, Once you get used to it though, I think the camera controls are great and easy to control. I play pretty much only CM now so there is no muscle memory confusion, so trying the other camera control settings is a good idea, and see what feels most natural to you. For controlling this, and any other PC game/program to its fullest potential I suggest investing in two things which can be programmed any way you like. First, invest in a mouse with as many programmable buttons as possible. I have a Logitech g7 with 12 buttons. Great mouse for everything! Second, invest in a gaming keypad (not keyboard). I have an old school Nostromo N52 with all the buttons could possibly need. With these you can have more ways to control the camera and command all at your finger tips. Like any other sport/activity having the right equipment does really make the difference and can take frustration away.

Come on Baneman, saddle up! Go down swinging and take as many of the SOB's with you! It's just a game. Hope all is well with you in real life.

All good sound advice in limiting exposure in the modern combat environment. The mind set needs to be more Mohammad Ali style stick and move, rather than Mike Tyson ground and pound especially when Javelins are on the field. I find though, that if I havn't played modern warfare in awhile I really do need time to re-acclimate to get back into the groove of how things are in regard to ranges and how deadly it is. Those Javelins are tough to tango with no matter who is yielding them. WW2 is so much more forgiving. Bil, when not testing a WW2 game would you say you play more modern combat as your preference?

Baneman, keep your chin up man. Even the most veteran player has some rough turns/games especially when Javelin missiles are concerned. It takes guts to put your ego on the line for the world to see knowing anything can happen in these games. So, at times like this take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice. Oh, and get yourself one of these....

Excellent turn 15 for you there Bil. Poor Baneman though losing so many key units in a single turn. I could have sworn I heard him cursing all the way here in Florida. Perhaps he will stub his toe to forget about the pain of that one. The Javelin is one of the best units to have by far. That unit alone with enough missiles could wipe out an entire tank force and can be tough to kill if kept moving around. They remind me of snipers only with missiles. Is there any air power, and if not was it a conscious choice not to include in this AAR? What is new in the game as far as air assets are concerned?

Yeah, tough break losing a piece to a pathfinding glitch like that Bil. I hate when that happens on occasion, but a real kick in the balls in a multiplayer. When these things happen in single player I will redo the turn and order to see if it happens again. The strange thing is with it wanting to reverse when not given that order often it will not when tested the same. Really is mystery as to why the engine will get an unexplained hiccup then not repeat on occasion. I'm sure these must be some of the more frustrating things for Charles to deal with in trying to figure out.

Good to know! Always wondered if the arc made the eyes focus more on the area within the arc. Now the question is - If a sqaud is given a face move before the move (with the intent they will face that direction upon stopping) are they looking more that direction while moving? Amazing that those of us who have been playing for years are still learning new tidbits of the mysteries of how things work under the hood all the time. Understanding all the little intricate subtitles really does give an edge in effective commanding.

Yeah, that would throw me off a lot. I have to have my mods or it just doesn't "feel" right especially as many of mine are practical enhancement to the game. Good luck Baneman. I was wondering who was going to step up when I saw Bil's challenge post in Beta tester world. Glad you did as it has always been a good fight to watch between you two. Excellent presentation! Thanks for the time it takes to prepare it all. Glad we finally got one of these official DAR's going to follow along with. It's been awhile.

Enjoying the excellent presentation as always Bil especial the Gifs to actual see the action. Strange seeing Syria and US as allies in the commentary as those units are so used to being on opposite sides. Cool though to now have the freedom to mix and match forces like that if one want to. Good luck and for God's sake get organized will ya