Vinnart

They cannot run forever. If they are in the "yellow", and especially in deep woods, and i want them to keep moving instead of stopping I use MOVE. Units spot better with MOVE than QUICK. Stopping spots better than Moving, but if I do not want them to stop all together i will give them MOVE. All the orders have their time and place.

I disagree. The order has its place and can be used to good effect. Here are just a few examples: You want the unit to move slowly with better spotting than QUICK. You also do not want the movement to possibly stop if contact is made. Instead of giving a stop break with some distance to jog, you give them some MOVE orders in between some QUICK movement lines to keep moving while conserving energy. The reason i suspect Movement to Contact was not included is to try to streamline the massive amount of controls already. I've been playing cmx2 for some years now, and have manged fine without it. .

The only advantage is it consolidates the mod into a single file. Personally, I do not prefer brz mods because I then must unpack it to get to the raw content which I want to see, and perhaps cherry pick. For this reason I never brz the mods I make. I always show the content in folders.

+1. Both very good scenario/map makers.

Yes, claymores would be awesome in the game. Basically it would be combining the canister rounds in the game with IED function as you say. The thing is they just may be too deadly if available in numbers as they are in reality. As for the claymore being still on the battlefield it is so light, effective, and easy to set up I don't see it going anywhere soon in its deployment on the battlefield.

John, that is my "Easy Vis UI" mod package for CMBS you can download. I have it in repository and in my mods thread. The mod is set up to use all, or whatever parts you like. Every part has its own folder. I'm sure I have a "Right Facing Weapons" mod for CMBN too, but not sure if I released for the other games. So many mods and games now it is hard to keep track of. As for what is optimal facing as well as other compositional principles it really depends on the image as a whole, and what the objective is in how you want the eye to move through the narrative of the image or information, or where you want focus. If you want the eye contained in the image leading it out of the image is not optimal. There is a whole subliminal psychology employed in a wide variety of techniques behind visual composition that there are whole books on the subject i have studied and used. For the CM UI the composition is linear left to right which works for this application in how the information flows. Even the squareness, and block shapes of the command buttons on the right works in that they form a visual book end to keep the eye contained, and from continuing right off the panel. Now in paintings you will see one of the most common and effective compositions is the "triangle". This moves the eye in a comfortable circular direction around the image. This is not to say there are not multitudes of ways to put a visual composition together just as notes of music can be arranged in infinite ways. In the end it is a good composition that feels good. Your eye will tell you just as your ear will tell you if it is appealing, and effective.

The best way to test a general accuracy test may be with a shreck, or rpg in, like you say Bulletpoint, in a lane. Set it up hotseat, with backing the target vehicle coming in ass backwards with a cover arc to their front. The thing is those weapons arrent the most accurate to begin with and range will factor in too. Perhaps 75m-100m may be suitable for a control group testing. All the firing troops should be the same I think should be Regular with 0 soft factors. I do believe it effects accuracy and other factors, and know it does effect fragility in relation to morale. Moving the firing unit should also show difference in reaction time when moved to firing position up to a boccage as suggested. The thing is I do not have the ambition to conduct this test. Since womble wants hard proof I elect him to find what he seeks . I'll remain faithful to my own observations from play, and intuition in regard to soft factors and their effects. All one really needs to know is not being in the "yellow", or "red" is better than being in that state. It is better to be +2 rather than -2.

I have done conclusive tests for example on the different stages of track /wheel damage, but this is hard for one to test I think say for effects on accuracy since there is no rifle range. We could set up to fire at vehicles which would register a hit with hit text, but that is a rather large target. Would be very cool if someone could come up with a good testing ground (mod?) with round metal targets that would show a hit text. We could then put some equal rated squads and run some around to get into different stages of fatigue, then put them on the firing range and compare at least accuracy to see if fatigue level effects shooting.

Ok, I'm going to say that they definitely do along with all other soft factors. Why? Well if there was no effect why have the factors in the first place? This includes the 5 stages of vehicle damage and so on. As to the exactness of how a soft factor effects a unit it has always been something of a mystery as I never recall BF ever chiming in to explain it in more depth. However, from years of playing like so many other veteran players out there we can use our experiences and logic to understand the system, and the factors. Also, with understanding of how BF tend to think in regards to realism we can apply logic. Think of how it is in real life, and it probably is factored into the game. With all this in mind I think my thoughts on fatigue effects are not far off the mark. The differences are minimal in each factor, but they add up till units are in the "yellow" or "red". Think of it as a few dials with 100 marks on it being the max. Each negative factor adds to the clicks backwards. The difference between 90 and 100 are certainly less than 50 and 100. Each click of the dial effects other dials too such as morale. Here are some "dials", but the list may not be complete. Each factor can effect each other factor in the end producing an overall effectiveness. This can be subtle or dramatic depending on the spread say 0 to 100, This is raw, and not factoring in equipment such as if the unit has binos for spotting which even adds more to the diversity in effectiveness of the whole for example with spotting ability.. Ability "dials": Spotting ability Reaction time, Communication time, AI decision making upon conditions (good or poor) Accuracy Now, the more physically exhausted one is the more it would effect each one of those abilities. Other factors such as rank, experience, leadership also would effect some, or all those dials even if in a subtle way.

Just to clarify because I left a keyword out file. What i am referring to is an alternate hotkey file, set up geared toward rts style left hand control as i describe above. Not an alternate graphic UI set up. My thoughts for this are along the lines of how the player now has different choices for camera control like rts, standard ect... Perhaps this file could be included in some sort of "sample mod" folder to make it easy if the player wanted to try it. In the mean time perhaps I will create a mod of the hotkey file optimized for rts play like i explained and post it if anyone wants to control the game more that way.

I agree. CM's UI is different in many ways to other games so it takes some time to get used to. This does not mean it is bad, but just different just as CM is unique. The additions of flexibility to bind keys to preference, and the space bar menu cleared much of this up from cmx2's original release back with CMSF. Even with this flexibility experimenting with hotkey placement to find out what best works for the individual takes some time and practice. Once one has this figured out it is all a matter of developing muscle memory over time to feel fluid familiarity. It is like this with any new game one starts playing. Kinophile, of course we are entitled to our opinions, but give yourself some time to get familiar with the UI. Try some of the suggestions to set up keys and control that feel good for you. We have all been in your shoes me included. I am a VERY picky gamer when it comes to UI and camera, and as I said i control this game as well or better than any other rts i have played. True, I have been playing for years so it is very familiar, but if I felt it terribly awkward after all these years that would be my feedback. Instead my feedback is favorable because I think it is well done. Be patient, practice, and do some experimenting and i am sure it will begin to feel fine for you.

See, the guy owns the company and even stuff on his own wish list is not in. I think it is good for people to see that when it comes to features not being in to understand often it is because of reasons other than not wanting to include a feature. I look forward to the day it is in though as it will be such a time saver,

I think it has an overall effect on effectiveness in a few areas. One being accuracy since we must assume logically they are breathing harder throwing off aim. Also, the more exhausted would slow down reaction time. Morale fragility is also probably effected since physical fatigue effects stress levels. Bottom line try to keep your troop from going into the "yellow" or "red". If they do try not to move them till they rest. I usually give them a HIDE order too if possible till they recover especially if in the "red". Lots of good advice on the forum to keep fatigue minimal.

Womble, I agree to agree, and agree to disagree with your analysis of my analysis . When it comes to MOVE certainly it is not the best choice if speed is of the essence, but I have had good use for it at certain times. Yes Assault really should be called "Bounding", but Assault sounds better. Here too I have had success with the command even when assaulting building in WEGO, but the key to make it work better I think is a waypoint right outside the building. One team stays on overwatch while the other enters. Some times I split, and do that too. That is what is great about the game is it gives each player more than one way to command and control the units to preference

Kinophile, I play RT mode too, and I can tell you that I control CM as fast or faster than any other RTS game I have played. If you are moving the mouse to select orders on the panel you are not being efficient in your control. I agree the command buttons are not the best out of the box for RTS play, but all this can be overcome. The fact that most keys can be bound to preference allows a better keyboard layout. In this regard perhaps offering an alternate default hotkey layout optimized for real time with the game may not be a bad idea. Here are some suggestions to improve your real time play flow. If you want to play all your games with the best control invest in a Nostromo speedpad, and mouse with many programmable buttons like I use. These devises will allow you to play ANY game with fluid control and speed. If one does not want to invest in these one can still set the keyboard up for optimal real time control. Bind hoykeys for the most common commands, and use the space bar menu for the rest instead of moving cursor to orders panel. Keyboard optimized for the left hand: Top row most common MOVE commands starting with "Q" for fast left to right fastest to slowest Second row most common COMBAT commands starting with "A" Bottom row CAMERA and some SPECIAL All the rest of SPECIAL, ADMIN access with the space bar. It is faster, and these orders are not used as much. The only time you should be moving the cursor to the panels for the most part is for PAUSE,STOP, EVADE commands if needed, for arty ordering and other various like one of the vehicle menus. Try it, and I am sure you will control faster once you build up muscle memory.

Good to hear. I'm sure you will choose a good way to incorporate. Glad to be part of the modding community, and for the flexibility the game has to make it easily possible. From a marketing perceptive this only adds to making the game appeal to more people by having more options that work better for the individual. I already have the Floor #, passenger status, and open showing under the portrait in the game, but what a pain having to swap out the portrait graphic manually with and without text when the condition applies

I don't recommend using FAST much unless it short distances, and they must go at a full sprint. I hardly ever have guys in the "yellow" or "Red" in fitness status. Here are the differences, and some suggestion to keep troops fresh. All of this is in the manual with my own takes on it from experience. FAST: Full out sprint. Even without heavy load one would be winded going balls out for 50-100m. Imagine one in a 50m race, and that is the speed. Troops usually will not stop to fire on FAST. Use ONLY when ABSOLUTELY necessary, like running across a street, or any short open area they must cross. Spotting is poor. Energy expenditure is rapid. QUICK: This is Jogging pace run like is done in standard PT. This, fit troops can sustain much longer and is the speed all soldiers have trained in full gear in running exercises at times. (Even more fun in full MOP4 gear ). Even with this running speed one will tire with heavy load if done too long. A good thing to do is have more way points with a few second rest, then move on, but always try to time these stops in cover when possible. QUICK should be used much more than FAST. Troops will stop and fire periodically at closer ranges, so if you want this quick is good, but if you do not want them to stop at all like crossing a street give FAST instead. Spotting is better than FAST. MOVE: Walking speed. Use when ever possible. This seems to give the AI the most flexibility to make its own decision as units will often switch to a different speed on their own depending on conditions. Units spot better than QUICK, and this will conserve the most energy. HUNT: Walking speed, but at a higher state of alertness. Units crouch in a more stealthy posture, head on a swivel. As we all know the unit will stop when contact is made. Do not use this if you do not want the unit to possibly stop. Units spot better than MOVE, but the higher alert state uses more energy than MOVE so give pause breaks if they need to go a long distance, or tough terrain. SLOW: Low crawl speed. Best concealment, but poorest spotting. About the same in tiring a troop as FAST so it should be done short distances and with lots or rests waypoints with pause if they need to go some distance. Of all the movements this is the only one that seems it tires units too quickly especially at some shorter distances in my opinion, but it has been about 25 yrs since I last low crawled so I don't remember how fatiguing it was. Another good thing is: If a unit can be transported for any distance moves do it. It saves energy. ENERGY: It is amazing how all combat has the same principles, whether it is with guns, or it is hand to hand. When i used to train Brazilian Jujitsu the instructor would always stress conserving energy while having your opponent expend his. Conserve energy as much as you can and use it in spurts or you won't be able to go the distance. Every time i would try to out muscle my opponent and not follow this advice I would run out of gas, and mean total body complete exhaustion. I have never done anything so physically exhausting than a Jujitsu match against a good opponent except a few times with the military. The principles of energy are universal even in CM

Agree Carl. Here is a visual of a possible way. The text "Open, passenger, or floor# " would appear under the portrait only when the condition applies similar to how "pinned", bogged," ect.. appears over the suppression meter only when the condition applies. I think this would make the portrait and area of UI actually useful rather than just an ornament of humanity. Shown also, is some red text for better ammo situational awareness when carrying a weapon out of main ammo. I wonder how hard it would be to incorporate as the game is already using similar coding with the suppression meter condition text, and red text showing destroyed vehicle parts?

"We' re burning daylight!". Favorite western line from John Wayne in "The Cowboys". It always reminds me of my Dad since we watched it together, and I used to go to work with him as a kid house painting. We would get up around 4-5am, and I would be draging ass, and he would give me the line come on "We're burning daylight!". Always made me smile because it was something between us.

I thought they were much better about buttoning up and opening up on their own in cmx1. It is an area they could improve with the AI.

Good point Carl. In that case either the player will have to remain aware to not have a vehicle follow into deep forest, or even better to have the "follow" command automatically cancel at that point when it can no longer follow. As for BF commenting often they do not, but i understand the reasoning. All that matters is that they see and consider the feedback from a different view point. The developers have expressed a desire to incorporate "follow", but when that will happen it remains to be seen. They have a long "to do list", but they are a small gaming company so it goes at a certain pace.

Steve, my feedback is the UI is very good in layout and design as is. There are some things you can do to improve the way the eye flows across it, but these things have to do with the way things point visually. Visual composition is my profession so it is something I do know much about. Ever look at a painting and wonder why you find it pleasing? If the artist is successful it is because it has composition designed to move the eye through it in a comfortable way as part of it's appeal. This is achieved using various techniques such as line direction. Simple things like flipping portraits and weapon silhouettes in the way they point go a long way to create the way you want the eye to move across the panels. These things are easily fixed through modding, but it is a suggestion to improve what you have out of the box to improve the visual flow which is left to right for this composition of logical information flow. I think the panel placement is optimal now for the left to right visual flow, and agree the breaking up of the panels as you describe works for distinction. This is a mod I made, but look at the difference in the way the portrait and weapons point to direct the eye more comfortably from left to right across the UI from panel to panel. Certainly an easy fix. There are only a few things I would change, or should I say add to this UI. I would not move any of the panels since i think they are layed out logically now. When selecting a unit the eye goes straight to the upper left of the UI to see what is selected, unless the player is looking for something else specific such as vehicle damage for example. The UI has this information in the optimal place since when we read, we always start upper left and go left to right. From there, though improved graphics facings like arrows, the eye can move more comfortably left to right through the information finally stopping at the orders panel on the far right. This is also the most logical place as one usually reviews the unit info left to right with the final action being to issue orders. Move to the next unit, and the process begins again. I find the information thorough for the most part, and really can't see what information could be taken away. The game is just too complex to leave anything of what is there now out. As to the information I would add it is all good things that were left out from cmx1 UI Floor #, passenger status, and open in UI Ammo text to go red when holding a weapon out of main ammo similar to red text when parts destroyed on vehicles.

I'm not sure about this, but interesting to see what can be done, also if an animation could be made to have leaders wave troops froward with the "Follow me, move out" gesture that would be very cool to see.

Check out my "Vin arrow unit bases" mod. I have it up in several game repositories, but it doesn't matter which game repository you get it from since they work with all Cmx2 games. Bases will only appear if a unit is selected however. To see icons better try "Vin Geometric unit icons" mod. I have a set for each cmx2 game. The different shapes and colors for spotted and FOW should make things stand out better for you.

Spoken of many times. Here is a similar thread I started a long time ago. It is something BF wants to do, but when the feature will be added remains to be seen. http://community.battlefront.com/topic/111963-improving-logistics-%E2%80%93-follow-me/?hl=%2Bimproving+%2Blogistics