sburke

Are you sure about that? I could swear I heard some NY accented German calling out about beer.

I had that happen with a Panther crew as well. I just assumed the GIs had someone yell "free beer and bratwurst" and waited for the Germans to unbutton to figure out where the bierfest was happening.

+1 on Bois de Baugin On my second run on it in a PBEM. Nice map, interesting phases in the battle dictated by terrain. Highly recommend it.

In fairness to George, we could simply ask his permission to use the map and design a completely different HTH battle. I really like this map and think the scenario design of having a recon phase that is wide open to approach however you want was very cool. The map itself has potential to use in any number of different ways.

Think? Why start now?

I know I've made some very poor decisions recently, but I can give you my complete assurance that my work will be back to normal. I've still got the greatest enthusiasm and confidence in the mission. And I want to help you.

I can vouch for that, I've had a PSW shoot up my Stuart face on much less trying for flank or rear. It was able to immobilize my tank which was then struck by a shreck.. Talk about a bad day at black rock...

That semi was a mis direct for the govt. The cases inside were full of parts for the Abrams Steve was shipping. Anyone remember Radar O'Reilly and his Jeep?

Thanks George, but I am actually pretty reticent about suggesting you tweak it. Balance being such a difficult item to define I am more interested in just trying it again with a much higher level of awareness of what I need to achieve. Perhaps I'll suggest to my opponent we try a double blind and compare results. If he whoops my butt both times I'll just suggest he go play as the Germans against Simmox while I go look for the kiddie pool.

Well if we really want to pry, what inquiring minds want to know Steve - Boxers or Briefs? As to sales figures, I think the real answer is none of us know and that pretty much sums up the thread. We wish them the best. It isn't that it is taboo, more that idle supposition on this topic just isn't of much interest to most I suspect. BFC is obviously doing well as they have hinted and that is all I need to know- they will continue to produce a great quality product so I will have something for my retirement years.

Ahh I don't know Tahiti ain't all it's cracked up to be. Part with our wonderful company for beautiful beaches, drinks and friendly company? I think they'd pass.

Shocked I say! Did they happen to get the steelcase as well?

Whoever is in charge of the clearing phase of operations needs to be sent back to the typing pool.

I almost always move em. I basically assume I am going to see some Arty early on and try to account for that as much as I can. That can be regrettable at times. I have done some close looks at Bois de Baugin and the sighting for the AT guns for example at the normal start is pretty darn good. Moving them is a tough decision, but if you assume the enemy is going to know the start locations odds are they may rain down hell on that particular spot.

I wouldn't do anything yet. One thing I really do get is play balance is an extremely difficult thing to determine. There are just way too many variables. What I was hoping for and think I got was at least a little confirmation that maybe there is reason to think it could be unbalanced. I really hate saying that to my opponent as it sounds too much like sour grapes and I think he really did do a masterful job with his units regardless of the overall victory conditions. I am not so hung up on winning, but I felt like I gave him no real challenge once we were past the recon phase. A simple agreement on our part that we are out to kill each others units period and the actual victory conditions on the map aren't relevant might be enough. We have moved on to Bois de Baugin where I think I can much better assess if I am simply outclassed. If I can at least put up a good fight I will feel a little better saying it wasn't just because I suck. :-P

Umm that is umm sound ranging, yeah that's it! Not gamey at all! cough cough

Ya gotta kind of have that mindset for WeGo as well, though for different reasons. Watching your StuG go trundling off to it's death because the action point you clicked on was on the opposite side of the hedgerow you were trying to poke your gun through can be quite frustrating. In RT I'd have been able to yell "whoa kimosabee, where the f**k you think you're going?" As it was I could only watch muttering, this isn't going to end well...it didn't. In another instance I was trying an ambush with an StuG and it went fine except the turn ended with my StuG up against the hedgerow, hadn't fired on my opponent and now they had time before the action started on the next turn to reply. In RT they wouldn't have likely had the opportunity to realize it was there and react. In either style there are trade offs and you just have to accept control is sometimes a complete illusion. And that makes for a very cool replayable game.

They get foxholes? Spoiling em eh? I remember back in the day.....

Now now, no need to go there. Honestly not trying to be a "fanboy" but I really don't have fundamental issues with the UI. Yes there are some things I would like including moveable way points, but I guess from my perspective they don't ruin my gameplay. Yes BFC has said they want to overhaul the UI, but that isn't the same as saying they feel it is fundamentally flawed as well. If they thought that I am sure we wouldn't have CMBN now. They'd have waited and done it first. That being said they do agree that it is something they would like to work on as CM is outgrowing the UI as they have it. In effect, we should all be winners in this. It will require some patience however as it is likely going to be a while.

LOL I am sure RT players are gonna hate that answer, but as a WeGo player I have to agree. I seem to recall Steve saying he plays mostly RT, but I just feel I miss far too much of why I bought this game playing it RT. Wait till we get the Bulge game and folks start designing Huertgen scenarios, think trees are bad now?

This was the opposite of my experience (which is good, I really hope it is simply my mis understanding of the objectives that is my problem). My hats off to your opponent for their win. The German force is almost as strong as the American force in Infantry and has the advantage of breaching explosives and very very good AT weapons. The StuGs are at a disadvantage IF they have to fight offensively, but in a defensive situation they can be quite deadly. From ambush they are quite effective as I learned the hard way and Broadsword is finding in our other PBEM. Head to head in close country against a Sherman, I would normally pick the Sherman, but wandering around blindly in hedgerow country when the Germans have infantry and StuGs in defensive posture is not good. The funny thing is I had more success in my game against the Panthers having managed to kill one with a flank shot. My opponent recognizing I think the vulnerabilities of the StuG catered to their needs and may have gotten a bit too relaxed with the Panther. One factor in all this is subjective. It may not be the scenario at all, I may have simply been outclassed by my opponent. I am more than open to that and asked my opponent honestly if they felt my game play was lacking or was I doing something fundamentally wrong. Their response was the comment about not making use of my infantry. What they didn't know yet was my infantry had just finally arrived. Getting it into position took time particularly if I wanted to contest the right flank farmhouse crossing. All that being said I am just gonna have to try this one again, it is just far too interesting. I absolutley agree about loving playing it. My regards to you George and I'll be sending you my manicurists bill after I chew my fingernails down to nubs.

My forces on either side of the main bisecting river had somewhat different experiences. On the right side (American perspective) I was able to take out a Puma and PSW and severely degrade the mobility of another PSW, but at the cost of all but one M5. I had dismounted my jeep and ran headlong into German dismounted infantry. Pretty wild shootout which while doing some damage to the german unit ended up with my team wiped out. From that point on the German infantry dominated the area around that farmhouse. I wouldn't have anything to contest it till my infantry arrived much much later. This allowed the Germans to set up a defensive position around this area in depth. On the left side I was able to get into position on the sunken road close to the bridge crossing and then held that position until I finally had to give it up knowing I was going no further. Basically the net result was the same as your experience. The German recon was able to take the crossing points and hold them for the follow on forces. One thing I did find is that Armored cars seem to have a significantly better stealth capability. On several occasions I would have stationary units facing the direction they were coming from and the first indication I would have was 20mm rounds bouncing off my turret. Pretty cool actually but potentially deadly if it had been a Puma. It seemed logical to me that Tanks just wouldn't have the same situational awareness and I really like that those recon units have some better capability other than marking the enemy positions with their flaming hulks.

First of all thanks for the very prolific response and a glimpse into your design perspective on this one. Actually you probably are the best person as I assume you played the heck out of it. Question for you, have you played this HTH as the Americans and pulled off a victory? I will definitely revisit the briefing later to see if I am just completely misunderstanding the American goals. It does really help to see your design perspective as I think as the American player I was feeling pressured to react earlier than it seems you intended, that in turn may have led me down a dead end road. I should explain what I mean by balanced. I don't necessarily feel parity of forces means balance. I was referring more to a situation where my ability to achieve my victory conditions is at least close to my opponents capability to do so. How it came to a discussion of force levels is I found the timing sequence seemed to put me into the position of having to assault my opponents positions as they were able to get into a position defending all the objectives. I now faced a force with some pretty serious firepower in good defensive terrain. For me only the initial recon units were fighting a meeting engagement. After that the Germans were able to assume a defensive posture. I think what I have to understand is what you mean by a blocking position in a meeting engagement. I had no problem with the victory conditions against the AI. However a lot of that was due to the fact that the AI maneuvers poorly and that in turn allowed me to get US forces near or on the objectives first. As the Americans I was able to win, but the Germans still had forces capable of inflicting some pain (read Panthers). As the Germans I was able to completely annihilate the American force. My experience in HTH play was that by the time I was able to get my infantry into the fight, the opposition was already set up into a defensive posture with control of all the objective locations to their rear. My opponent even mentioned to me why I was leading with infantry at one point. Perhaps I was simply moving too early from how you perceived the scenario as unraveling, but at that time I still had no infantry and I already had indications that German armor was moving into good defensive positions between my forces and the objectives. My recon was being overrun and I was losing any ability to develop intelligence on German movements. I am assuming from your reply that the American objectives are set up to simply deny German forces passage. In other words contesting control of the objectives would be enough to achieve a draw. That is one I will have to think about and review. I guess I should look at the reinforcements to see if they are variable for arrival, did I simply have really bad luck on their arrival times? Anyway regardless of the difficulties, still really like this one. If it is simply a matter of having a better grasp on how to achieve the victory conditions I think I will enjoy it even more. I may have to ask my opponent for a rematch once I have a chance to think this one over again.

Looking for some feedback from scenario designers about this particular scenario. I know balance can be very subjective considering the potential differences in skill levels amongst opponents, however I have had discussions with a couple individuals including my own opponent and the consensus seems to be this one is pretty difficult for the American player. Wondering if others have that same feeling and what might be reasonable ways of balancing it if that is the case. I really enjoy the map and the nature of play on it, but there are several factors in it that make it really difficult to provide a challenge to a German opponent. Lack of any breaching capability for the Americans Lack of any recon infantry in the beginning which makes the German AT equipped infantry really difficult to counter. Late arrival of American Infantry forcing the Armor into a recon role as German AT assets take up early position. Proximity of objectives to German map edge Relative equality overall in Infantry and Armor with the American being forced into the role of an attacker with at best parity with the German force. Despite feeling it was just butting your head against the wall as the Americans, I still really like this scenario. I'd like though for replay value to at least have some opportunity to threaten a victory. Do more veteran players agree with this assessment or is it perhaps just a bad use of whatever strengths you believe the Americans have? If you feel this assessment is accurate are there suggestions of what could be done that would not in turn weight it too much in the American favor? Some of the ideas I have thought of or heard are - breaching capability for the GIs (engineers etc) Earlier arrival of at least some of the Infantry. Greater distribution of reinforcements. Crossing the river to threaten the Germans takes a considerable amount of time. Changing of victory locations so that some of the German objectives are closer to the American map edge.

lol I would agree, maybe not so dramatically though. I don't have a problem with the UI. I realize different playstyles can impact how you function with the UI, but personally once I figure out what it is I want to do, I can usually figure out how to do it pretty simply. The fact that what I want to do turns out to have been a bad decision I can't blame on the UI. Doesn't keep me from trying. :-P Having fought on the defensive on a couple PBEMs I'd have to say I think it does work. Making use of cover and concealment to disguise your forceis possible. I find it harder to work the offensive as by the time I have forces in place to try and achieve fire supremacy the artillery strikes are starting to fall. Trying to put together a good combined arms attack and maintaining your momentum is really difficult. Pretty true to real life.