Cuirassier

Hmmm. I thought they were supposed to improve both time of mission and accuracy. I haven't actualy tested though.

While I find CMSF still quite fun, I agree that the game lacks the high-intensity conflict that you get from the CMX1 games like CMBB. In the CMX1 games you get major powers fighting each other with basically symmetrical weapons systems. Thats not always the case in CMSF. Counter-insurgency missions can be fun, but not as fun as high-intensity engagements between nearly equal opponents (technology and weapon wise I mean). I think CMSF would be awesome if it modeled the 1973 Arab-Israel war or maybe even the Iran-Iraq war. Even a hypothetical NATO vs. Warsaw Pact would be interesting.

This is especially true for the Soviets. The only reactive, medium-high powered artillery the Soviets have are 120mm mortars. Their other powerful artillery (122mm guns/howitzers and up) have horrible delay times. TRP's thus make those artillery pieces much more effective.

Well obviously withdrawing is easy when your units are not under fire. In this case move or run will work fine. But the original poster says the player is having difficulty withdrawing from enemies within LOS, and is thus presumably under fire. In this circumstance I find advance to be the best command, though sneak works too. In fact, I often do use the sneak command to move a short distance into deeper cover to break LOS with a HE chucker. Move or run however will just result in pinned men. Of course, I'm not saying use the advance command the whole way, wherever you are withdrawing to. Use it as long as you are in LOS of the enemy and under fire. Once you break LOS and are in deeper cover (woods, dead ground, etc) by all means switch to move so you don't tire out your men. And if your defensive setup requires you to withdraw a long way under fire using the advance command, that does not mean there is a problem with the commands you are using, but there is a problem with your defensive setup. During a withdrawl you should only have to use the advance command over short distances because your men should be in positions where they can break LOS with the enemy relatively quickly. [ November 09, 2007, 11:18 AM: Message edited by: Cuirassier ]

Where are all the knocked out Strykers? There were lots of those in the original CMSF.

Whatever the colors may be, all the TRP's will work with any spotter. No matter where your spotter is, if you target one, you'll have artillery fire falling on the location in a minute or so. You can even move your spotter if you want because the off map guns he calls fire from never move. The only thing with TRP's to remember is that on map weapons lose the aiming bonus if moved.

A good defence is planned ahead. This is particularly true for a fall-back defence where you plan to use infantry platoons and maybe some armor to engage the enemy in a series of ambushes throughout the depth of your defence. When you set up your forces, put them in locations where they have covered routes that they can use to withdraw into. A good covered route allows your ambushing units to fall back and break LOS with the enemy relatively quickly. Large blocks of woods work well for this. Dead ground also works (eg you are on the forward slope and withdraw to the back position, behind the crest). A fall back defence may also work with less covered routes. That is, small 'islands' of cover (woods, pine etc) separated by open steppe or ground maybe. Just keep in mind traversing the open areas during a withdrawl can lead to many dead men if the enemy opposite has odds or isn't suppressed adequately. Another danger when retreating across 'islands' of cover is that flanking forces may gain LOF across your witdrawl routes and effectively cut off your forces, making them easy prey for his heavy weapons once he brings them up. So watch your flanks and make sure he can't cut up and chop away portions of your force. Its important to know when to withdraw. If you have odds and the right combined arms counters to his force, sit their and shoot it out. If you are only using a thin OP line, kill his scouts when isolated, but bug out as soon as the enemy main body is identified. If you are using significant portions of your force in a heavy OP line, withdraw when: 1. The enemy is bringing up superior numbers of infantry into cover opposite you, within good rifle range of your force. If you stay, you'll be suppressed and be unable to withdraw. 2. The enemy brings up a strong HE chucker (eg T-34). Armor with a 75mm plus gun with 30HE rounds or more will demolish a platoon in a minute or two. You can't absorb that firepower, so skulk away. 3. The enemy is calling artillery onto your position. Sometimes light mortar fire can be absorbed if the following up infantry assault is weak or uncoordinated, but it is still not a good idea. It is more likely though that the enemy will use heavy artillery on thick targets such as a platoon. So if you see a spotting round fall near you, pull out. Besides good cover,your other forces may help with a withdrawl. Keyholed armor or a fire mission can suppress some of his units long enough for your men to get away. HMG's and/or supporting platoons can also cover the open ground preventing him from easily running across it right up to your men. Smoke can also be used to temporarily block LOS. I don't recommend calling smoke with an FO though unless if it is absolutely necessary. Their HE shells will always be more valuable than smoke. Obstacles can be used too to slow down the advance of the enemy as he pursues you. Mines and wire covered by fire should also cause him some casualties before hand. Stay in your position only as long as you can win the firefight. This may mean you stay for a few minutes, or maybe just one. If you want to launch an ambush but not stay long at all, you can give your men covered arcs and a pause delay just over a minute. When the enemy comes into their arcs, they will open up. If the enemy is immediately following up with strong forces though, you will be ready to withdraw almost immediately next turn, because of the pause. As for the actual orders I use when withdrawing, I almost universally use advance. Run and move leave the men to vulnerable, while withdrawl usually results in panicky soldiers. That has been my experience anyway.

slysniper, By no means am I attacking Wittman. I am just stating that Tigers in CM during 1943 are much harder to kill than they were historically because of the undermodelling of Soviet AT guns, namely the 76.2mm. It is difficult to kill a platoon of Tigers, even if you are a good player with T-34/76's alone. I think the scenario he played would have been much more balanced if he fought armor that could reliably kill his Tigers. I have no problem with him playing a scenario where he has uber armor and can plink away T-34's at will. Personally, I dislike those scenarios. Admittedly however, I have played some QB's against the AI where I just take a couple KV's and fight hordes of Pz II's and III's. It is not remotely challenging, but can still be fun.

Were the T-34's you faced 76.2mm models or 85mm models?

I think Patboy did a Fall Weiss mod for CMBB. I haven't tried it (I don't mod my CMBB that much) so you would have to contact him or someone else who knows more to get more information. I don't know of any Fall Gelb mods though it is possible there may be some. The problem with a western front mod is that there are few to none early war western allied units included in CMBB, which would make it difficult to create realistic scenarios.

It is not a great feat. Against T-70's and T-34/76's the flanks of Tigers are hardly vulnerable. The 76.2mm is undermodelled and cannot achieve the results it did historically. Also the AI is a generally poor attacker. Clearly it did not take advantage of its numerical advantage or the limited visibility. Against a competent attacker armed with fair counters to your uber Tigers (like the Su-152), it is quite possible your force would have been defeated. To me the scenario sounds like one of those where the uber Germans face the Soviet horde and can't lose, because the Soviets have nothing adequate in their arsenal to deal with the German heavies.

Recently I was flipping through my copy of Manstein's Lost Victories and reread the portions where Manstein discusses his various defensive battles. Although Manstein shows the operational moves he made with his armies, he doesn't go into much tactical detail. So I was wondering, how do corps and army sized units conduct strategic withdrawls successfully? I am mostly interested in how the Germans did it, since they were relatively successful in escaping large scale encirclement by Soviet units, at least prior to 1944. For example, what tactics did the 1st and 4th Pz. Armies use to withdraw from below the Don to a more stable line on the Donetz? Or how did German units manage to reach the Dnepr and set up stable defences on most stretches of the river without being destroyed via pursiut and encirclement? I'm sure previous attrition and weakness of pursuing Soviet forces must have been a factor that enabled the Germans to withdraw in alright order. Nonetheless, I am interested in how German corps and armies withdrew when pressured by pursuing Soviet forces. [ October 31, 2007, 09:35 PM: Message edited by: Cuirassier ]

I think flame is fired automatically, provided the target is in range and within the traverse limits of the flamethrower.

Glad to see these finished JasonC. I'll deffinately give them a go when I find a chance.

"Personally, I was hoping for at least some reaction to this. Where's the pride?" Sorry. I should have thanked you for the excellent explanation. Thing is I don't even have CMAK so I don't even know how or why I posted on this thread to begin with... :confused:

Bump

Does anyone know a website that has free detailed maps of European Russia? I'm reading "Before Stalingrad" right now and have found the maps in the book somewhat inadequate. I'm particularly interested in the Smolensk area. Thanks.

CMBB was my first wargame and is what got me hooked on the genre.

Double post

Tigers were deployed in Schwere Panzer Abteilungen (heavy tank battalions). Unlike the mass produced Pz. III, IV, and V, Tigers weren't attached to Panzer divisions. Instead they were organised into these battalions and were usually held at corps and sometimes army level. In major offensives (eg Kursk) these Tiger battalions would be assigned to Panzer divisions in a Panzer Corps' making the main effort. Their primary task was to lead the breakthrough fighting, breaching heavy defences that would allow the Pz. III's, IV's and V's to exploit into. They were seen as very valuable assests and were only used to spearhead the Panzer Corps' main effort. Of course, later on they would be used as armored reserves to fight allied breakthroughs. During the war, the Wehrmacht deployed 11 Heer Tiger battalions and 3 SS Tiger Battalions. The battalion had 45 Tigers organized into three companies. I think some of the more favored divisions had a Tiger battalion permanently attached, such as the Gross Deutschland and Lehr divisions, though I may need to be corrected on this.

"Later they joined a pan allied project to drop vast ammounts of beer behind enemy lines, and just point the Canadians at the beer. This has been found to be the best way to win a war, as nothing is stupid enough to stand between a Canadian and beer." Are you certain? Wouldn't the Germans be drawn towards the beer and set up strong positions there? Why didn't Ireland declare war on everyone and go after the beer themselves too? It seems I am confused...

Why do people always seem surprised or shocked when there is no news?

The worst is having to wait forever to check your email for PBEM files because of my not so speedy dial up internet connection :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Misereor, Instead of continuing your debate with JasonC on what the actual intentions of your original post were, why don't you just step up to the plate and succinctly explain your theory of "controling the battle" and how it separates masters from apprentices, as you have yet to do so. I am not here to start any personal arguments. But just for the sake of the original poster, if you have helpful advice, by all means share it. If not, you might as well discontinue posting here, as it serves no purpose.

Never heard or seen that before. Then again I rarely, if ever, use the human-wave order. It was probably enemy gunfire that caused the casualty though. I seriously doubt such a feature would be put in the game.