PLM2

Spoilers I won but I cheated by reloading about 5 times after losing Shermans in crazy ways (one to a shrek at 500 meters ) As soon as I found the trench with the 88s, closest to the tracks I took out both guns with 60 mm mortar precision strikes... moved a few units up and down the tracks on my side of it so they had some cover. Some shooting ensued, I used the 60mms to take out the 2 HMG teams in the previously mentioned trenches... Then edged my Shermans forward near where I took the 88s out and busted some holes in the wire (i knew there'd be mines at the other spots). I knew it would be all about my tanks because there simply isnt any good cover and the buildings looked to be a death trap in the making. Obviously that made taking out ATGs the top priority. Fortunately the 50mm ATGs aren't so big and bad if you face them head on. I kept cover arcs on my infantry a lot, especially in buildings because otherwise they drew all sorts of firepower from trenches/ATGs on the other side. Spotting was their most useful task. I used the time-tested technique of shooting HE from tanks near ATGs who are just out of their LOS. The trenches were clean already thanks to my laser guided light mortars. I didn't get infantry in there until about 30 minutes into the battle. Had to extensively use the shermans to blast apart buildings, occasionally losing one (or all of them) to hidden AT guns in crazy spots. I swept along the edge of the map with a single sherman in the Forest objective (near the original 88s) and wiped out everything from behind. Then plastered the other forest with a 105mm barrage after figuring out there were 88s there. I took out one of the 88s before it could turn its ugly head at my Sherman by using area fire as close to it as I could (infantry had spotted it). Enemy surrendered... the casualties I inflicted in the first forest objective were very useful as it included several HQs/mortars/vehicles. Only lost about 30 guys or so, mostly from mortars and checking out deserted buildings.

Well yes, i'd imagine you'd want to stay away from the windows. That's why I don't get why units' LOS are still pretty great in buildings when under fire. Seems like it should be worse just like for troops hunkered down in a trench. I had my best times in urban combat in the original, playing humans in massive battles defending or attacking. You can't really play with the AI (unless the AI is defending) because the AI can't handle it so well. I'd buy TRPs and 280m arty and register it at strategic blocks of houses, pounding them to crap after they're overrun. We had to edit the maps though and put the flags in the city, or you could basically just bypass the town because of the way those maps were generated.

I saw how cheap they were and assumed they sucked.... this is good information, i'll have to try them out.

Probably on vacation. That's what i'd be doing. Or working on a patch

I seem to recall in CM1 that that's all that craters were too... maybe something along those lines would work? In the scenerio I just played (A delaying action) I noticed the mapper put several units in small craters instead of foxholes.

I think I read in the manual that the hunt command is very good for room clearing. That does seem to be the case but I've noticed it can be a disaster if your unit so much as spots an enemy unit before it gets inside the building because they'll stop short and engage that unit, right outside the building you were "hunting" into. So I mainly go for "quick" straight into the door. I understand it's probably best to try sending a scout team in first seeing as how 4/5 of the time they'll just get mowed down and you'd hate to lose your NCO carrying the SMG right away. I'd really like to see some more sophisticated building clearing techniques. I wouldn't exactly expect to see the guys stack up outside the building (pretty sure they'd just get mowed down the way I see enemy shoot/view through walls) but It'd get me off if there was a "Enter and Clear" command or something along those lines, maybe even see some of the guys toss some grenades in the windows/door before going in, abstracted of course. I'm not sure if i've seen a grenade used in a building yet but it'd be the first thing I'd think of doing in that situation and it seems to be the trend reading from firsthand experiences back then. I see a lot of units start throwing grenades when the enemy is nearby in boccage but never as far as I recall when in buildings. I always remember the intense urban combat in CM1 and how you'd expect your guys to throw grenades even in the same "building" I'd also like to see suppressed units in buildings take more of a LOS hit, I'm not quite sure if they take any currently unless they're pinned and crawling away. I wouldn't think it'd take much to keep an enemy's head from peering out the window and even seeing your guys running into the building next door, at least not shooting them.

Then hiding doesn't work in the way of the original CM because it was great for use in conjunction with a cover arc. Ive found some uses for hide... on a mission today I had a platoon hq on one side of some raised elavated train tracks taking fire. I just told them to hide and they didn't get hit. I have had problems though getting units to actually stay down and hide when under fire.... even at ranges of 400 meters or so. My self-esteem raising defenses on open ground maps are showing me that telling my men to hide when I need to them to conserve fire in a trench doesn't work so well. I have to also give them a cover arc or else they'll start shooting again... even if the incoming fire isn't really directed at them. IMO attacking is already tough in CMBN... But on the other hand, the defensive fortifications don't seem to work as well as I'd expect. Not only with trenches/foxholes but it has became quite routine for me to knock out bunkers with a couple 1917 MGs lately at maybe 300 meters.

Have you messed with in CMBN? IMO its much more predictable seeing as how you have to call for it with FOs and can restrict it to a point target or a several hundred meter radius. You can also choose a heavy/medium/or light mission depending on what you want them to use.

I wondered the same thing a lot of the time... beautiful skies and no air support I enjoyed the campaign but I found it to be very challenging. Quite honestly, by the last mission I just wanted to get through already. Numerous times I had to replay missions. My biggest problems seemed to come with actually using my artillery assets. On the very last mission (my second time through) I decided to change to preregistered barrages at the start of the mission. My biggest pain throughout the whole campaign was spotting for my artillery. I'd waste precious time hung up somewhere rotating through officers trying to see which genius could drop a barrage on the right side of the map. The 88s in the last mission were a hell of a pain to me and ended up meaning that I couldn't even slow down the German counterattack because I hadn't taken the objectives at that point. I couldn't get anybody with good LOS to put any sort of barrage on them and they effectively cut half of the map off for me. The lack of any satchel charges with the double hedgerows running the length of the map meant I had no useful real estate to flank the enemy defenders or interdict the coming counterattack even after I discovered it. There was one short span of bocage that I could use... under observation of several 88s and every German on the map. The enemy trench line right near by didn't prove as useful for my guys. I ended up with a massive flanking operation (on attempt number 2) straight towards the forest with the 88s after an opening linear 105 barrage plastered all but one of the 88s out of commission. I justified this in my mind because afterall the intelligence told me the 88s were there ... as well as the on-map intelligence. The first time through I mistook the location of the 88s in the briefing for being in a field directly next to me ... the French names through me off. Le this Le that... it all looked the same to me. After this move I was able to bring my shermans down the road and break up the enemy counterattack

My big problem is that infantry don't seem to regard foxholes as cover on their own. I've had units in a wide open map ditch their foxholes and sit out in the open (closer to the enemy) and engage them. Also I haven't really managed to get a unit to retreat to backup foxholes on their own, even when they're in a great spot and safe. Theyre just as likely to run away and lay on the ground five feet from the foxholes than get in them. The same goes for trenches. Its almost like the units don't regard the same way as other cover such as a tree or some bushes... or a wall. Its obvious under artillery barrages that this seems to be the case... Units will often crawl a few feet away out of their foxhole and sit there under the barrage as if the cost benefit of leaving a foxhole to move just outside was somehow justified.

Anybody had a spotter round land smack dab on top of the spotter? I have

I think BFC would ultimately benefit from a serious and well made built-in tutorial. Everyone I know outside of these forums that knows about the game or its predecessor laments about the interface being hell.

I had this same problem on this campaign seeing as how at least the first 1/3rd of it is before dawn. It would definitely help to have some sort of tool to highlight your troops at night. This in conjunction with a disappearing contact icon bug can have you losing the location of troops in the dark. And forget about retrieving casualties unless you're gonna do a meticulous search of the ground level.

I know what he's talking about and its not because you can't see through the hedge because another unit occupied the same tile and could see through. Also the MG itself occupied the same tile before it was disrupted earlier and moved, i know because its a very small area of hedge with only 2 or 3 tiles which became very important

I found the photo after some google searching and it seems to say that those are disgarded German helmets left by retreating Germans during the Falaise pocket scenerio. True? I don't know.

I don't get paid to do that. But if you want perhaps I'll make a montage of absurd shots, maybe i'll make an effort. That is if someone else doesn't beat me to it. As I didn't even start this thread but I knew something was blatantly wrong even after trying the demo whereas one of my shermans got picked off after exposing itself for 2 seconds from an ATG pointed 45 degrees away. Presently I'm seeing units get sniped from 500 meters through a narrow crack in terrain in literally a 5 second window of opportunity or less. A greyhound moving "fast" perpendicular to an enemy gun shouldn't take a hit 100% of the time when its only exposed for 3 seconds. If the accuracy isn't on crack, then the speed of acquisition most definitely is. I know darn well a patch is gonna fix this some day because its very very blatant ATM. Until then I guess we'll just work around.

It seems to me almost comical at how people are defending the current accuracies. Its most definitely entirely different than CMAK or CMBB... So which was wrong? Or were crews really able to acquire a target and take it down with that kind of efficiency? At the range in the training mission with my shermans there was not one single miss on any of the dummy tanks I was aiming at, not one, even while moving. Seriously this community always seems on top of its game except for this topic.

Something is seriously wrong... More than once I've had my commander sniped off the turret with a ATG/tank round to the face in the first shot and the first few moments of exposure. Anyone who says its all good needs to get slapped in the face

Wasn't it so you could tell by checking the stats of the spotter? I know its not like that anymore though

Update: Got the draw and moved on my 5th go at it. I basically acted on knowing the enemy positions from previous times. I hadn't wanted to be gamey so I did not review the map my prior losses. I must say I was shocked to see the amount of firepower that the Germans still had that I didn't even meet after finishing the mission. This mission is rediculous, I'd like to see an AAR if someone can get through it standing up. Especially a first time go. This campaign should seriously be modified to either allow twice as much time on this mission or another go at it, when you fail the first time. It's simply not realistic to expect someone to beat their way across a ridge like that in 50 minutes, with enemy strongpoints on both sides of the ridge observing you.

I definitely agree with all the original poster's points. Players who are not familiar with the series would be totally lost... especially when it comes to armor. Those hit/kill chances and penetration values were a godsend, regardless of any gaminess. I could see them be unavailable for the more hardcore modes of play... but basic training? Please gimme gimme!

Can you shoot down aircraft?

What would be totally awesome is RT with a rewind capability!!!!

Me too. Would be a very useful option

I played the first few missions on wego because it was how I was used to it... now I just play RT and pause as much as I want to issue new commands.