slysniper

watching my 57 mm round bounce off a tiger, then hit a tiger 20 meters from it, bounce off it also, then land in the dirt and kill the trooper laying down next to its final destination.

being I am pretty new to the cm2 engine, how can squads recombine. the old cm1 was doing it if they came close to each other again. I know it does not do that anymore. Thank you. but how do you regroup a squad if you want to.???

I must agree with this quate totally. in CM1, splitting squads helped because of programming issues. Now it sounds like we have some of that going on again, as to the fact of causulties being the factor in morale change. but just for good tactics, it makes sence. like was mentioned, its a good way of keeping AT assets from firing but allowing the rest of a squad to fight. it is much easier to position seperate units and to cover yourself from more angles or approaches. The only issue has always been more units to keep track of and manage.

I have found one of the best ways to learn tricks about map building is open up the scenario files of others and see how they are getting cool features within their maps. Other than that, just get in there and try things, it can be frustrating at times, but it teaches you what can and cannot be down with the program. It is a investment of time though.

They need to learn to just kick out a game that is politically correct but that has the tools in it to let us the players design battles in taboo areas of conflict. Give the wargamer the tools and let them decide what is appropriate to model. It is the only way to solve the issue. Some do not want certain wars to be represented, others long for the ability to recreate them. neither side is totally right or wrong. But players should make the choice, not the company. CMSF never did give the terrain or troops to model other areas other than the middle east, I am glad I did not invest in it. To limited and boring. They need to find a balence in giving the war gamer tools and giving it out in quantities that make the profits fitting for their running of the company.

Really , no way to answer this question. It really depends on how many units you are issueing commands to each turn as to how long a turn takes and then how long the game last. If you are on defence and just have you units waiting in ambush positions, turns go very quickly until the enemy makes contact. then you might only have a platoon or two of units to adjust commands for at that point. Where as if you you have 2 companys of men on the move on the offensive side of the map, it takes awhile to place orders, exspecially once the lead starts to fly. Anyway, each turn could take 5 minutes to a hour for me depending on the scenario. I just finished 2 games in about 4 hours apiece. But I know I have played large battles by PBEM and have spent a hour just to get the moves inputed for one turn.

I agree. I was trying to explain it to a game buddy . there is no other game that is going to come close to the detail and game play level as we see in CM games. Steve now has 12 plus years in working on this type of game system, likely tons of gathered data and the desire to do it. What other company is going to invest the time to make a game that is to this level. Profit is all that matters. battlefront has figured out how to sell plenty of mods to help generate the profit that will make it profitable for them, that is just smart bussiness. I am just glad that they have figured out a way to make a success of their hobby and that they provide us with such games.

I just love the fact that this is even in the game, had not noticed the concept of this terrain doing damage to the unit. in the 12 years plus of programming these games keep getting more and more detailed, it is nice to see.

For years now I have been waiting to get into a newer version of the combat mission games. But for some basic reasons I have not, I just been playing the old cm1 games. I am glad to finally have a game I will be buying and enjoying. The Normandy game is great and I cannot wait to get the full version. As a side note, I liked the afgan version demo and almost bought it. But the only reason I have not been interested in all the version 2 engine designs so far has to do with the lack of interting terrain to work with and so one sided forces. I actually want modern battles but you still have not given the tools to create many recent combat situations. Persionnally I was hoping for the chance to create scenarios of Russains vs US troops in interesting terrain settings. - Still not a possibility even with all your modules. At least now I can fight for bridges once more, face tough German tanks with inferior weapons but know that forces are not that one sided and find some terrain to work in to gain the advantage. I still hope for a day that Battlefront get kind and sells a recent war game that gives one the tools to be real creative.

I always thought the old version of the game had the armor missing too much, I like the fact that the hits seem more realistic to the ability of a gunner.

I like to finish what I start, The duel that started this discussion was in a game I was playing email. I had 4 Tigers, he had 3 Fireflys behind a crest of a hill 2000 meters away. In the end , I lost one Tiger and One PV 4 which I added to the fight, he lost 2 fireflies and the other pulled back either damaged or out of Ammo. So in the end, 2 Tanks lost each side, he had terrain advantage and I had protective steel. Even with all the imperfections of the game, it still played out to what I would think was a pretty realistic results. But at first it was pretty nerve racking, he had a kill in the first minute. was firing more rounds and for sure getting more hits. So it was a first and hopefully the last time I have a tank duel at 2000 Meters. Not the normal for the games I play anyway.

Yes, thanks for the link about the sights, it clarified a few things.

I also found data that verified that the mussle velocity was better in the firefly. So a flatter trajectory would be helpful for shots misgaged as to range still being able to hit target. So from the comments given, it appears the firefly has a rate of fire that is way out of line from the real numbers and that it also takes out the fact that its APDS shell had a higher percentage rate for lossing accuracy at range because of design issues that caused a wobble in the shell flight. As for sighting all I can say is play Darkest Hour and see how you do at hitting enemy tanks at long range with the two site designs, German sites are by far the best design from any as far as I am concerned for that era. So once again grogs point out a imperfection in the game numbers. Sure would be nice to let this game get some open programming finially, so that those that still play it could adjust the numbers to what they feel are more historically correct. Look at how many did that too the close combat games, it was interesting to play the differnt versions of that games program. As for my game maybe I will get lucky and he will run out of special ammo before all my Tigers are burning. Not Likely. But in truth, it sounds like in real life it would be more of a even match up, maybe the Tiger even having the advantage. I figured it would be a even risk when I went into the match up, so when things did not happen that way I could tell it was more than luck turning the battle to the fireflies advantage. Interesting, you can tell I have not spent all my time just playing with Super tanks, well, a lession learned.

I expect the firefly to get more rounds out per minute, just by the fact the the crew has more room to work and a lighter shell to load. The APDS round is a killer, so that is a given that the tiger is toast when hit, so that is not a issue either. a higher muzzle velocity would be very helpful if that is true and the shell has a flatter trajectory out at that range. But I really question that, expecially the APDS, but that could be the factor involved. I question if the game really ever modelled sighting issues. I do not beleive the sighting equipment on the firefly to be that good at these ranges compared to the german tanks but I am going off my knowledge of what I beleive the siights to work by, which mostly has come from other war games. So that migth be tainted some. Anyway, I will avoid this match up in the future, that is for sure, correct or not correct .

After all these years of playing I have just learned the hard way not to get into a duel with fireflys using Tigers at long range, the Battle is at 2000 yards and I found my tigers being out preformed. So I went and did a few game test and found that at 1600 yards the Fireflys were out hitting, shooting faster and getting kills as easy as the Tigers. In some test it was as bad as a 2 to 1 kill ratio, the best the Tigers ever did was 7 kills to 10 losses. Can I consider this good game design, if so, what is the advantage that is being reflected here in the game. I am having a hard time accepting the fact that the fireflys are getting a better hit percentage.

BF-Forgotten ground - posted at the Depot II Aachell Region, Ubach area. Amer 30th infantry with 2nd Armored support attacks the 183d Volksgrenadiers with anti tank support. Based and a Historical battle (semi-histrical in detail) Excellent battle for Head to Head play I just finially sat down and posted my scenario I created for the Masters Tournament. My goal was to submit a game that was action packed from start to end. That had tactical options for both players. That had different types of match ups within the battle as to units. That was balenced on scoring and gave both sides a fair chance to win. From the results within the tournament I feel all these goal were met. To find out more review the game I feel it played very successfully. but it did cause problems by the size of it. Players dropped out before they even made a effort at it. It plays very well, points per side are around 10,000. But much of that is in exspensive unit values, but no question it is large. It really plays like 2 main battles or games. But within it you will find all different types of action. I and a game buddy played it and the adverage time it was taking me per turn was from 15 minutes up to 1 hour, he was about the same. I would not say either of us play quick or sloppy, that was well planned movement on both counts. If you have someone you enjoy going head to head with. This is a must But only you can find out for yourselves.

I think that the site for the Cm games is dead, maybe a little life in it, but the last drops will be on the ground soon. I only come to see about the new games, if a release has happened. Maybe WII cm2 will be out in a year and then it still would have to work with my new machine, which who knows. But if it does, i will be back more active. I have my consistant fellow gamers that I battle, so cannot add another game, actually I have lost interest to some extent also. but like to keep games going. It time for you to seek a club, there is a few still going. That is the only place to find players that will be good email buddies.

Wow, This game is finially where I always thought it would be, I have not bought the game to this point but the new demo has proven to be so much better that the previous I am now wanting the game. I am also excited to see the WWII version come out now if it is going to be at this level. Some things that have improved since I last tested it without knowing all the fixes that have been put into it. I notice improved sound effects, much more relistic. Game graphics are flowing better, speed and smoothness. The AI seems much improved, the enemy now appears to know how to fight instead of being such fools as before. American equipment is going up in flames more often. So without knowing all the issues and what has been done to improve them, I judge on only the fact that the previous Demo seemed unrelistic and sounded like a game. Now I feel the enemy is real, they are dangerous and waiting for their chance. The game presents it in graphics and sound that makes me feel I am now in battle not just watching the game as it did before.

I have managed to get 10 or so to play in my Tournaments still, so there is a small group out there playing, I also notice that there is others still downloading CMBO scenarios from the Depot - but most might still be playing vs AI

Tournament final scores Congratulations to Dinga with a fine victory. He scored in all 6 scenarios and had (3) 1st place finishes. Well done!! Bert also did well with (2) 1st place finishes and scoring in 5 scenarios. Wittmans score jumped up with my help, managing to finish up two of his matches and achieving two 1st along with a first place he had at round one, they were enjoyable games to have to step into. And last I want to mention Major Tum, Everyone says he is a pleasure to play and finally he had a tournament where he had a good showing, nice improvement from him. Please thank Kingfish once more for providing new scenarios Dinga 14 points Bert 12 points MichaelWittman (Slysniper) 11 points Mntineer 9.5 points Major Tum 7.5 points Shellshockye 6.5 points Miles 6 point McCobbler 6 points Mikado 5.5 points Custard 5.5 point Redbear (Slysniper) 5 points Crow 4 point Sceanrio #4 - Hornissenest 76/24 Dinga44 vs Redbear (Dinga 1st place 3 points) 71/29 Major Tum vs Mntineer (Major Tum 2nd place 2 points) 54/46 Bert Hamoen vs K.A. Miles (Bert Hamoen 3rd place 1 point) 48/52 Crow Warrior vs. Shellshocksye (Shellshocksye 3rd place 1 point) 35/65 Mccobbler vs Custard (Custard 2nd place 2 points + 1.5 points vs higher rated player) 26/72 Mikado vs MichaelWittman (Slysniper) ( MichaelWittman (Slysniper) 1st place 3 points Scenario #5 - New Years Eve Resolution 81/19 Bert Hamoen vs Major Tum (Bert 1st place, 3 points) 78/22 Crow Warrior vs Mikado (Crow 2nd place, 2 points + 1 point vs higher rated player) 77/23 Dinga44 vs Mccobbler (Dinga 3rd place 1 point) (Mccobbler 3rd place 1 point) 70/30 Shellshocksye vs Mntineer (Mntineer 2nd place 2 Points + 2 points vs higher rated player) 47/53 Custard vs MichaelWittman(Slysniper) MichaelWittman(Slysniper) 1st place 3 points + 2 points only weak side victory) (forfeit) K.A. Miles vs Redbear Scenario #6 - The Summit of the Black Brigade 81/19 Major Tum vs MichaelWittman (Major Tum 3 points 1st place + 0.5 point vs higher rated player) 79/21 Dinga44 vs Bert Hamoen (Dinga 2 points 2nd place) 74/26 Mikado vs K.A. Miles (Mikado 1 point 3rd place + 1.5 points vs higher rated player) 68/32 Mccobbler vs Shellshocksye (Shellshocksye 1 point 3rd place + 0.5 points vs Higher rated player) 64/33 Custard vs Redbear(Slysniper) (Redbear(Slysniper) 2 points 2nd place) 43/52 Crow Warrior vs Mntineer (Mntineer 3 points 1st place + 2 points weak side victory + 0.5 points vs Higher rated player) Round one standings Bert 8 points Dinga 8 points Miles 6 point McCobbler 5 points Shellshockye 4 points Mikado 3 points MichaelWittman 3 points Redbear 3 points Major Tum 2 points Custard 2 point Crow 1 point Mntineer 0 points Sceanrio #1 - St Saulon Allied vs German 68/26 K.A. Miles - Mccobbler (Miles 3 points + 2 points weak side victory) 36/39 Bert Hamoen - Redbear (Bert 2 Points) 24/71 Shellshocksye - Custard (Shellshock 1 point)(Custard 1 Point) 19/75 Crow Warrior - Major Tum (Major Tum 2 points) 17/83 Mntineer - MichaelWittman (MichaelWittman 3 points) 17/83 Mikado - Dinga44 (Dinga44 3 points) Scenario #2 - Mackays Fortress Allied vs German 86/14 Mikado 1st- Neal aka Major Tum (Mikado 3 points) 85/15 Bert Hamoen 2nd- MichaelWittman (Bert 2 points) 84/16 K.A. Miles 3rd - Custard (Miles 1 point) 55/24 Crow Warrior - Redbear 3rd (Redbear 1 point) 69/31 Shellshocksye - Dinga44 2nd (Dinga 2 points) 43/44 Mntineer - Mccobbler 1st (McCobbler 5 points) 3 points 1st + place 2 points only weak side victory Scenario #3 - Devils & Dragons Germans vs Allied 61/39 Bert Hamoen - Mccobbler (Bert 4 points) 3 points 1st place + 1 point weak side victory 50/29 Shellshocksye - Major Tum (shellshocked 3 points) 2 points 2nd place + 1 point weak side victory 42/43 Crow Warrior - MichaelWittman (crow 1 point) 23/63 Mntineer - Custard (Custard 1 point) 35/65 Mikado - Redbear (Redbear 2 points) 21/79 K.A. Miles - Dinga44 (Dinga44 3 points)

Round 2- Present point standings Dinga 11 points Bert 11 points Mntineer 9.5 points MichaelWittman (Slysniper) 8 points Miles 6 point McCobbler 6 points Major Tum 5.5 points Shellshockye 5.5 points Mikado 5.5 points Redbear (Slysniper) 5 points Crow 4 point Custard 2 point Sceanrio #4 - Hornissenest Dinga44 vs Redbear (Reported) Bert Hamoen vs K.A. Miles (Reported) Mccobbler vs Custard (Reported) Crow Warrior vs. Shellshocksye (Reported) Mikado vs MichaelWittman (on turn 34 of 35) Major Tum vs Mntineer (Reported) Scenario #5 - New Years Eve Resolution 81/19 Bert Hamoen vs Major Tum (Bert 1st place, 3 points) 78/22 Crow Warrior vs Mikado (Crow 2nd place, 2 points + 1 point vs higher rated player) 77/23 Dinga44 vs Mccobbler (Dinga 3rd place 1 point) (Mccobbler 3rd place 1 point) 70/30 Shellshocksye vs Mntineer (Mntineer 2nd place 2 Points + 2 points vs higher rated player) 47/53 Custard vs MichaelWittman(Slysniper) MichaelWittman(Slysniper) 1st place 3 points + 2 points only weak side victory) (forfeit) K.A. Miles vs Redbear Scenario #6 - The Summit of the Black Brigade 81/19 Major Tum vs MichaelWittman (Major Tum 3 points 1st place + 0.5 point vs higher rated player) 79/21 Dinga44 vs Bert Hamoen (Dinga 2 points 2nd place) 74/26 Mikado vs K.A. Miles (Mikado 1 point 3rd place + 1.5 points vs higher rated player) 68/32 Mccobbler vs Shellshocksye (Shellshocksye 1 point 3rd place + 0.5 points vs Higher rated player) 64/33 Custard vs Redbear(Slysniper) (Redbear(Slysniper) 2 points 2nd place) 43/52 Crow Warrior vs Mntineer (Mntineer 3 points 1st place + 2 points weak side victory + 0.5 points vs Higher rated player)

Tum look at post 148, at the top is the present scores, you have 5.5 presently. Only two games left to go, I have had to step in for Wittman to finish 2 of his games, it might be a few weeks still. The sad thing is, he was not in bad shape, so I am enjoying the fact, so I am trying to make life hard on these two battles and so far am doing well. Sorry for the delayed finish, i did not know these games had fallen that far behind.

Just the last post is correct, it does not let me edit my own post before that, so I gave up. Three games to complete, I am a little woried about Wittman, I have not had any reply for a few weeks from him and two games are his to finish, Contact me if he has not been sending moves. A few comments on the Summit Of the Black Brigade scenario. A one sided battle with the adverage ending at 68 Ger/30.5 allied I give Mntineer a Congrats !!! For managing a victory with that Poles, (it sure helped his score to get back up with the group) Major Tum getting a 1st place in a scenario, good to hear. He deserves a little something for the good sport he is, so he can be proud of that. I had to step into this one for Redbear, One of the few I had a chance to do something about, first thing I did was scout what was coming up the slope at me and found I was totally outclassed. I immediatly changed the defence and fell more units back into the woods to the reverse slope, it was ugly but for 5 minutes I gave Custard a hard fight and made hime pay for cresting the ridge. But as you all know the germans were not likely to be stopped. Thought I was doing poorly until I saw the other scores coming in. So sorry Custard for making it a fight, even if you did win the battle I did manage to score the points.

Round 2- Present point standings Dinga 10 points Bert 8 points Miles 6 point Major Tum 5.5 points Shellshockye 5.5 points Mikado 5.5 points Mntineer 5.5 points McCobbler 5 points Redbear (Slysniper) 5 points MichaelWittman 3 points Custard 2 point Crow 1 point Sceanrio #4 - Hornissenest Dinga44 vs Redbear (Reported) Bert Hamoen vs K.A. Miles Mccobbler vs Custard (Reported) Crow Warrior vs. Shellshocksye (Reported) Mikado vs MichaelWittman Major Tum vs Mntineer (Reported) Scenario #5 - New Years Eve Resolution Dinga44 vs Mccobbler (Reported) Bert Hamoen vs Major Tum (Reported) K.A. Miles vs Redbear (forfeit) Custard vs MichaelWittman Crow Warrior vs Mikado (Reported) Shellshocksye vs Mntineer (Reported) Scenario #6 - The Summit of the Black Brigade 81/19 Major Tum vs MichaelWittman (Major Tum 3 points 1st place + 0.5 point vs higher rated player) 79/21 Dinga44 vs Bert Hamoen (Dinga 2 points 2nd place) 74/26 Mikado vs K.A. Miles (Mikado 1 point 3rd place + 1.5 points vs higher rated player) 68/32 Mccobbler vs Shellshocksye (Shellshocksye 1 point 3rd place + 0.5 points vs Higher rated player) 64/33 Custard vs Redbear(Slysniper) (Redbear(Slysniper) 2 points 2nd place) 43/52 Crow Warrior vs Mntineer (Mntineer 3 points 1st place + 2 points weak side victory + 0.5 points vs Higher rated player) Round one completed and the Present standings Bert 8 points Dinga 8 points Miles 6 point McCobbler 5 points Shellshockye 4 points Mikado 3 points MichaelWittman 3 points Redbear 3 points Major Tum 2 points Custard 2 point Crow 1 point Mntineer 0 points Top 3 players, two are previous winners and the other has played well in both previous tournaments. Talent seems to raise to the top once again Sceanrio #1 - St Saulon Allied vs German 68/26 K.A. Miles - Mccobbler (Miles 3 points + 2 points weak side victory) 36/39 Bert Hamoen - Redbear (Bert 2 Points) 24/71 Shellshocksye - Custard (Shellshock 1 point)(Custard 1 Point) 19/75 Crow Warrior - Major Tum (Major Tum 2 points) 17/83 Mntineer - MichaelWittman (MichaelWittman 3 points) 17/83 Mikado - Dinga44 (Dinga44 3 points) Scenario #2 - Mackays Fortress Allied vs German 86/14 Mikado 1st- Neal aka Major Tum (Mikado 3 points) 85/15 Bert Hamoen 2nd- MichaelWittman (Bert 2 points) 84/16 K.A. Miles 3rd - Custard (Miles 1 point) 55/24 Crow Warrior - Redbear 3rd (Redbear 1 point) 69/31 Shellshocksye - Dinga44 2nd (Dinga 2 points) 43/44 Mntineer - Mccobbler 1st (McCobbler 5 points) 3 points 1st + place 2 points only weak side victory Scenario #3 - Devils & Dragons Germans vs Allied 61/39 Bert Hamoen - Mccobbler (Bert 4 points) 3 points 1st place + 1 point weak side victory 50/29 Shellshocksye - Major Tum (shellshocked 3 points) 2 points 2nd place + 1 point weak side victory 42/43 Crow Warrior - MichaelWittman (crow 1 point) 23/63 Mntineer - Custard (Custard 1 point) 35/65 Mikado - Redbear (Redbear 2 points) 21/79 K.A. Miles - Dinga44 (Dinga44 3 points)

Sceanrio #4 - Hornissenest Dinga44 vs Redbear (Reported) Bert Hamoen vs K.A. Miles Mccobbler vs Custard Crow Warrior vs. Shellshocksye (Reported) Mikado vs MichaelWittman Major Tum vs Mntineer (Reported) Scenario #5 - New Years Eve Resolution Dinga44 vs Mccobbler (Reported) Bert Hamoen vs Major Tum (Reported) K.A. Miles vs Redbear Custard vs MichaelWittman Crow Warrior vs Mikado (Reported) Shellshocksye vs Mntineer Scenario #6 - The Summit of the Black Brigade Dinga44 vs Bert Hamoen (Reported) Mccobbler vs Shellshocksye Custard vs Redbear Crow Warrior vs Mntineer (Reported) Mikado vs K.A. Miles Major Tum vs MichaelWittman (Reported) Round one completed and the Present standings Bert 8 points Dinga 8 points Miles 6 point McCobbler 5 points Shellshockye 4 points Mikado 3 points MichaelWittman 3 points Redbear 3 points Major Tum 2 points Custard 2 point Crow 1 point Mntineer 0 points Top 3 players, two are previous winners and the other has played well in both previous tournaments. Talent seems to raise to the top once again Sceanrio #1 - St Saulon Allied vs German 68/26 K.A. Miles - Mccobbler (Miles 3 points + 2 points weak side victory) 36/39 Bert Hamoen - Redbear (Bert 2 Points) 24/71 Shellshocksye - Custard (Shellshock 1 point)(Custard 1 Point) 19/75 Crow Warrior - Major Tum (Major Tum 2 points) 17/83 Mntineer - MichaelWittman (MichaelWittman 3 points) 17/83 Mikado - Dinga44 (Dinga44 3 points) Scenario #2 - Mackays Fortress Allied vs German 86/14 Mikado 1st- Neal aka Major Tum (Mikado 3 points) 85/15 Bert Hamoen 2nd- MichaelWittman (Bert 2 points) 84/16 K.A. Miles 3rd - Custard (Miles 1 point) 55/24 Crow Warrior - Redbear 3rd (Redbear 1 point) 69/31 Shellshocksye - Dinga44 2nd (Dinga 2 points) 43/44 Mntineer - Mccobbler 1st (McCobbler 5 points) 3 points 1st + place 2 points only weak side victory Scenario #3 - Devils & Dragons Germans vs Allied 61/39 Bert Hamoen - Mccobbler (Bert 4 points) 3 points 1st place + 1 point weak side victory 50/29 Shellshocksye - Major Tum (shellshocked 3 points) 2 points 2nd place + 1 point weak side victory 42/43 Crow Warrior - MichaelWittman (crow 1 point) 23/63 Mntineer - Custard (Custard 1 point) 35/65 Mikado - Redbear (Redbear 2 points) 21/79 K.A. Miles - Dinga44 (Dinga44 3 points)