hellraiser

hellraiser icq 161578956 e-mail: cosminerul@yahoo.com count me in

It doesn't make sense indeed - I tried it in hotseat to see what happens - you can push fast indeed but yoou will have to stop in front of moscow or other sibs triggers - the sibs shift the balance a lot. Plus dowing russia so early and not being able to capture enough resources fast gives the red a lot of cash to toy with - definitely not a good ideea. About a second front - don't be so sure - UK can do nasty things even before USA is in.

I guess I'll join as well... For picking sides...hmmm...tricky stuff here...any bidding can seriously impact the game balance as it is now...really the game is pretty balanced right now. Perhaps we should have a game master or something to pick sides for players ... or some coin flipping software

few countries actually bothered to build warships during the war - you need a lot of resources for that and resources were better spent in other areas - frankly, the current situation seems ok for, it reflects the reality quite well.

Played tons of them, really - in 2006 only SC2 and Company of Heroes -> ain't much into RTS but CoH is really well designed; From the past days I will probably ever remember the PG series and Close Combat series (CC were masterpieces imho, at least for that period's standards). And ofc, SC1 - quite an addiction

"Yes, I am stuck at #2 in the world..." I like this line @Liam -> let's play a game dude - games vs you are always a pleasure - lots of action and stuff

because diplo was nerfed lately (averaging 7-9% per succesful hit) usually it takes a lot more turns to convince Spain to join Axis - sure with italian and german chits focused, Spain will most likely rise but at a very slower pace (ofc if UK countered) so you shouldn't be surprised if the major powers join and block with their own chits. If you hope for uber hits 30%+, well it's your choice - but for a cautious player, now it is quite risky to spend cash on a potentially lost cause. Indeed a lot of players diplo HU/RO - they start with very high activation levels towards axis and you don't need too much luck to get them joining you. Rarely you will ever see an allied player counter HU/RO - it doesn't make too much sense. So Spain now is important for Axis only for the additional cash it provides, securing the Med area (by capturing the Rock, some nice XP gained by the attacking troops. Too bad for Axis - they lost those nice spanish units - ideal for garrison duties

regarding air hits, the facing is irrelevant as far as I know.

you can do a 2nd install of sc2 on your PC - you can always use the 2nd one for switching to TCP or whatever - point is if someone wants to cheat , he will - sure thing it's a waste of time but some guys probably wanna win no matter what - ya gotta live with that -> one strong reason why I never play PBEM

I, Robot joined the h2h arena? Welcome dude Looking forward to read some nice AARs. And yes, Leningrad is a VERY strategic objective.

stop posting 'Yodls' - everyone of us know how to count lol - everytime I see you and him on line, I'll just add one [ January 07, 2007, 11:56 PM: Message edited by: hellraiser ]

you feel kinda dazzled when that happens, pretty much like Adolf back in '40 when he learned about the DOW

better diplo romania and hungary very early - dont bother with spain anymore; R and H start really high towards axis so it works 99%

perhaps you should try asking ppl over at mod forum, they might have the answers you seek

"2 in Spain's mainland (leaving the capital open, but it's far from the coast, so...)" well LR 4-5 paras come from the sky they don't disembark on the coast You don't need troops in Tunis, Algiers, Syria, Hungary. You need some units in Yugoslavia to prevent partisans - they can be used to protect the hungarian capital as well as bulgarian and Yugoslavian ones (place them so they cover the Yugo mountains and Belgrade and don't worry about Sofia and Budapest). In Iraq you need to keep something in the city and if you have enough of them on the oilwell but most important is to secure the iranian mountains bordering Caucasus - you don't want reds to flood the mid east Use italian, romanian and hungarian troops to cover less exposed sites and use some high tech german corps in key places on the map. You should be ok. But, you have to understand that this 'protection' is in fact only against raiding not against a full scale invasion.

Well...the basic ideea is that as of 1.05, dowing spain is probably the only way to get it as Axis Diplo effects were nerfed thus you won't be seeing Spain willingly joining Axis Common Axis practice is now to buy romania and hungary (leaning is way too high towards axis for the allies to react diplomatically) and this way, you don't really care if Spain is under 40% - you plan to kill her anyway. This is one way to play - ultra aggro i.e. LC/Denmark turn 2, Poland, buy romania, hungary and kill Vichy (to have a broad front for Spain) and spain immediately after France. Get the mid east(with gibraltar axis it is easier) +west africa and get some remaining minors post barbarossa. Indeed majors will join faster, have a lot of cash but under this strategy, axis have probably bought all corps, all tanks and 2 xtra HQs before barbarossa - quite powerful I may say. The other way is to slowplay your Axis - limiting DOWs only to necessary countries and use the time in your favour.

Against a pro allied player I would recommend maximum care in managing the german and italian fleets especially with the new spotting rules regarding ships. Against an average player, it's more than possible to play a bit more aggro - a lot of players split their RN into different task forces allowing gaps that can be exploited by axis fleets. 1. The sub into the Atlantic can be used either to raid (most common approach) or try to slip past allied ships in an attempt to link up with the baltic fleet; if it raids the convoy lanes, later( after France is down) it can try to make its way to Bordeaux port. 2. the extra ships you get can reinforce your Baltic task force or be placed in the Med. Given the fact that in 1.05a the most common approach is to DOW Vichy and Spain immediately after France, you can place your ships in Marseille or a spanish port, to assist the Italian Navy in the battle of the Med. Usually allies will try to benefit of the new spotting rule and infest the med with ships to try to catch axis transports and ships sailing for Tobruk or planning an amphib assault of Tunisia/Algeria. 3. The four starting ships in the Baltic should stay there at least for a while. The combined RN/French fleet is too much for them to handle in the beggining. If later, the allied players splits his ships into more taskforces - i.e. you see ships in the med, near gibraltar, near brest - perhaps you can try to do some damage. 4. The italian fleet - its first task is to protect transports for Africa/support the invasions of Tunisia/Algeria. If they, somehow, survive this - Yoda's tips are pretty comprehensive about their later use. Note - you said something about defending the raiding sub with some surface vessels - generally it is a bad ideea especially if you do it in the first part of the war. British ships have the advantage of closer supply in the Atlantic while germans lose supply pretty quickly. As a rule, try to achieve some sort of superiority - rather try to link up the italians with germans and go for a 3-4 subs raiding job while your surface ships secure the perimeter - if the british interfere, they now have to face the combined strength of the axis navy rather than 4 ships. Remember to resupply your ships. Another rule would be: UK can afford to lose ships, because they have so many and because later they receive the US fleet while Axis, if they do not buy xtra pieces thus going for a full naval war, cannot afford to repair their ships - simply too much of a mpp drain, and any lost ship would never get replaced.

"If you're referring to anti-ship missions, Terif has said that that costs the Axis more than they gain." Well, usually Terif states his point of view having a so called optimal strategy in mind. His concepts are easy to grasp yet quite difficult to implement: 1. SC2 is a land warfare game - so air and ships are just support. 2. Apply overwhelming pressure at the spot of your picking thus negating the MPP advantage the other side may be having. 3. His strategy is more or less optimized for improving Axis' middle game position so as to be able to crush Russia at a fast pace while keeping enough forces in west to slow the allies down to a crawl. Judging his multiplayer game records, it appears he is applying the most effective strategy. OTOH, other players may choose different paths. Possibly sub optimal or even game losers. But occassionaly game winners. The sub wars, Axis bomber strategy, etc. Under those strategies, killing ships is important. Whilst Terif in his 'land warfare focus strategy' does not reinforce any axis damaged ships and rarely pursues aggro actions against the superior Royal Navy / US navy unless the allied player falls in a trap, those pursuing a naval war (lots of high tech subs, bombers etc) will kill any allied ship which each opportunity, fighting to rule the sea and hamper or interdict the western arm of the allies. I wrote this because those words of Terif regarding attacking allied ships with air being a bad ideea, were said because indeed it doesn't fit at all in his strategy, so he has a lot of sense. But if you ask Rambo for example who is a well known sub addict, you may find a different answer, which again would make sense because Rambo plays differently. One thing said by Terif holds true irrespective of your Axis' strategy - concentrated firepower. This is the most delicate aspect of the Axis' gameplay and Terif had applied it first, constantly improving on it. I guess he was the first to notice that the mpp differential is not so important in this game if you focus your efforts with maximum efficiency in a spot of your choosing. To me, at least until now, this is THE greatest contribution so far to the development of the strategic aspect of SC2 MP games.

"The Axis player wins by capturing London and Moscow." - this was back in the v 1.0. Now you need also Stalingrad The old win conditions made it far too easy for Axis to win. Even an average player vs Yoda himself could do it. With Stalingrad now a condition for the war win, games are longer so side theatres like Skandinavia may become important. Regarding LW training - if Axis player decides to train his air on Oslo (without going for Sweden first) and liberate Norway - this may prove very costly because Axis need to place its airforce in Denmark thus the RN can hit axis air at leisure. Unless Axis has a sick long range tech, training in Norway is not a good ideea. Ref freebies - indeed too many in the game at least for my taste. Moreover I feel that the game now forces Axis to play the 'good guys', passive, build up style game, more reacting than acting at least to a certain moment in the game. Terif said that a very aggro Axis approach is feasible but I haven't seen that since my 1.05 MP experience is nyll

@Jollyguy - I never play PBEM. As for TCP/IP...I had no time to play sc2 lately, I will most likely play some games but probably after 1.06. Haven't played a single 1.05 tcp game so far and it seems (as Terif says above) things are indeed different from 1.04, concerning strategies. If I will have the time, I will scout for you on ICQ (dunno if i got your no.) these days. 'good run for your money'...hehe, maybe you're overestimating me - I haven't played so many sc2 games so I cannot be considered very good, perhaps you have an edge, having played more MP games than me And I am not from the States...I live in Romania - time differential could be a problem here.

yogi, dude, if you want the real thing...join the army and when bush dows some freakass arab sheik, you won't be questioning whether it makes sense or not...you just fight Now on topic: As I see it, SC2 is not an accurate simulation of the WW2. The '39 campaign starts historical, after that, it's your choice to follow the history or change it. It's full of what ifs...a thing I enjoy a lot TBH. The editor is there because there are people like you, who want it as historical as possible and usually are not satisfied with various aspects of the scripts, etc and there are different people who want a simple yet enjoying game covering the WW2 subject. I mean HC tried to please both history nuts and guys who play this game for pure fun.

1. Strong Poland opening = all out attack, rape poland in 2 turns, walk west. Pros: less operating costs, earlier diplo/tech investments. Cons: allows France to prepare the defences, possibly invest some diplo in Iraq or elsewhere. 2. LC turn 2 attack. Transport army near Koenigsberg in west, operate the motor 1 corps from poland near Kiel (for capturing Copenhagen) operate tank and army (those deployed vs poland in the north), move airfleets in striking distance of denmark (the one in west should stay there), move northern HQ west so it can support the troops there. Upgrade the corps in town near LC. Turn 2 DOW Denmark and LC and capture them. Meanwhile, continue the push towards warsaw - take care to place your units so polish units cannot regroup near the capital. Pros: engage the french earlier, forcing them to use MPPs to reinforce rather than diplo-ing minors. With a little luck with weather, this can turn into a very early France, but usually they will survive the winter. Morale boost from lc/denmark allows you to be a bit aggro and even kill some frenchies fast. Getting poland in turn 3, keeps the morale ok, allowing you to continue to attack in france. Cons: higher costs with operating so diplo/researching will be slower. Ref USA readiness - given the fact that in both cases, usually france falls in spring, it doesn't matter much. After France, go get Egypt. UK has mucho, you move more + air. UK has too mucho, maybe it's time to Sealion. Meanwhile, keep an eye on western africa. Due to brilliant minds like mine and possibly Terif's Algeria raping by the allies has become more or less standard. It is a freebie for the Allies and even if eventually Axis kick them out of Algiers, they will still hold Casablanca and when Spain boils to 100% pro Axis they can snatch Tangiers - quite a nice allied foothold. Casablanca is almost impossible to be attacked by Axis on ground (too low supply - learned this the hard way vs the Green Man). So, after France falls, it would be wise to have ready an italian landing force ready to get Tunisia, so you get supply for kicking out allies from algeria (tunis is not ruined by Malta effect). After fighting for Africa, prepare for russia. Buy some xtra HQs and the full complement of corps. Or if you like it mixed, mix it. July - august 41 - you must unleash Barbarossa, so you make use of some summer months to reach vital objectives until sibs arrive and supply gets fuxed up. In the mid east - get Iraq, Iran, Syria whatever you can grab. USA probably is in the war by now, so you don't have to maintain a good public image anymore the rest of the game? Pray for tech and weather and try to attack and defend properly lol. Further tips on attacking - play Yoda, he will teach you the art of attacking with overwhelming force in the place of his choosing and you will watch him win games despite you making 150 more mpps per turn For the defence - play Yoda again and try to take France from his Axis - you will most probably fail and learn again valuable tips

allies have tons of freebies...why axis shouldn't have one or two?

@TaoJah - the problem is UK doesn't have the MPPs to keep reinforcing units in Africa, especially expensive ones like planes. Thus, Africa is just a matter of time. If Axis player notices you defend it with tough units he either moves what is required or Sealion you. Long term, UK pays a huge price - less tech investments and less units thus the D-Day will be significantly weaker. Why defending Egypt when UK has so many freebies ? Norway - no way Axis can defend it without losing almost the entire Baltic Fleet. Algeria - Troops coming from Egypt via the loop, hit Algeria the very next turn after France surrenders - common Axis habit is to have ready amphibs for Tunisia the same turn so they can establish a foothold in western africa which is not reduced by Malta effect - with tunisia secured, Axis can liberate Algeria in a blitz - but only get the capitol since casablanca is too far away. With casablanca allied, it is more than probable that Tangiers will be allied once spain joins (allies will most likely force Spain to join by dowing portugal for example so they have the preemptive hit on tangiers). Because of the allied freebies, Axis sometimes play the 'good guys', liberating things instead of subduing them Another option would be middle east - some countries do not bear penalties for majors, only upset iran, turkey. So UK could snatch those countries but probably it wouldn't be a good ideea since closer supply helps Axis secure the whole mid east easier. Anyway, the game basically forces Axis to play very careful and DOW only the minimum required countries. OTOH, the game basically invites the allied player (i mean UK in this case) to play overly aggressive without much consequences. [ December 11, 2006, 05:09 AM: Message edited by: hellraiser ]

Too many allied freebies in this game for my taste. Norway, Algeria and some other. It is unfair for a side to pay zero price for being overly aggressive.